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What Glow Plugs and How Does the CRD Start
5V Steel Plugs Starts Fine 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
5V Steel Plugs Starts Terribly 13%  13%  [ 4 ]
7V Etecno1 Plugs Starts Fine 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
7V Etecno1 Plugs Starts Terribly 56%  56%  [ 18 ]
5V Plugs @ 7V Programming Starts Fine 16%  16%  [ 5 ]
5V Plugs @ 7V Programming Starts Terribly 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 32
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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:24 am 
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Would anyone who has terrible 7V Etecno starting be interested in swapping in the Etecno 5V? You must have the 7V programming.

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:43 am 
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cevans wrote:
Would anyone who has terrible 7V Etecno starting be interested in swapping in the Etecno 5V? You must have the 7V programming.


Yes - PM sent.


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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Me too if you need a second.

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:01 pm 
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I swapped out the original ceramics due to all the horror stories here for Etecno 7v when I did the timing belt. My daughter was going to buy it, and that winter she kept killing the battery. After taking possession of it again on New Year's eve 2015, I hadn't realized how pathetic cold starts were even in the low 30's high 20's. On the recommendation of GDE I switched to the 5v Bosch with 5v logic plus replaced the 5 year old at the time battery.

I had replaced the original Optima red top with a Duralast Gold. Although I only ran the battery dead once in 11 years, I had some close calls with the new 5v plugs and the new replacement Duralast Gold battery under warranty last February. I bought an Odyssey in December which made a noticeable improvement in cranking. My son was using it for work a few times last month and killed the new battery 2 times in a week. I attribute that to not enough experience and trying to fire as soon as the glow plug light went out.

While starting will probably never be as good as it was under the ceramics, I have changed my starting procedure and I can live with this setup, although not ideal. She starts finicky between -10 to about +5, and depends if windy. I used to almost never plug in unless it was below zero. I have a 30 minute commute and always plug in now at home below 30. This way I am only stressing the battery when trying to start in the extreme cold at work. I have a solid hour at interstate speeds charging on my commute to and from work. I park behind some bushes at work as a wind break when I can (no plug ins in parking lot). Because I have not installed my in tank lift pump yet, when it is below zero and not plugged in, I turn the key on, pop the hood, pump the fuel head plunger until tight, give a second key off-on sequence before trying to start. I carry the Gold battery along on extremely cold days in case I need a jump and nobody is around (it is only a year old) but so far so good haven't needed it.

The one time I ran the battery dead was with the original Optima and ceramics. She wanted to start, and had I kept on the starter she probably would have, but by the time I figured that out I had run the battery too low to crank anymore and got a jump. It was around like -20 F at the time. I don't like using the starter to keep it rolling because of potential damage to the starter and teeth on the flywheel, but when it gets extremely cold and wants to start, I've found keeping the starter engaged helps, especially with this new agm battery.

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:29 am 
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Please make sure to include your units - F (Freedom units) C (actually makes sense units).

Most of us are in Freedomland and we used this bassackwards measurement system(F).

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:19 pm 
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I wonder if a group 31 battery could be fit in one of these.

I saw one with 1060 CA, 850 CCA and between 190 and 250 RC - I didn't write it down. I was looking for our International

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:48 pm 
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jrsavoie wrote:
I wonder if a group 31 battery could be fit in one of these. I saw one with 1060 CA, 850 CCA and between 190 and 250 RC - I didn't write it down. I was looking for our International

A Gp. 31 will NOT fit safely, it is to high and to wide. There just simply is not enough room....not to mention the hood would hit the terminals when trying to close and the fireworks would begin!!! :grim:

Group 31 Battery Info:
L-W-H mm 341 --- 173 --- 233
L-W-H in. 13 3/7 --- 6 4/5 --- 9 9/50
Polarity: R/H-POS
Term Position: TOP - SAE AUTO

Group 65, can be used if you trim battery tray for longer length or get one of Sasquatch's battery trays.
L-W-H mm 306 --- 190 --- 192
L-W-H in. 12 1/16 --- 7 1/2 --- 7 9/16

Group 34R (OEM) Battery Info:
L-W-H mm 260 ---173 --- 200
L-W-H in. 10 1/4 --- 6 13/16 --- 7 7/8

:SOMBRERO:

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Add me to the 7v starts terribly list.

2005, 104k miles, GDE Eco tune. One of the ceramics died, and in went the ET 7v. What a disaster. No starting sub 35f without the block heater in the morning, and extremely difficult if left more than 4-5hrs at same temp.

It's enough of a clusterf... that I have to make the decision to do a weeks preheater, or sell it. My wife won't drive it now because of the afternoon starting issues.


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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:22 pm 
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I was able to get a new temperature sensor into the 2005 and it did improve cold starting quite a bit. Based on my OBD reader it seemed that the sensor was reading just fine, but, apparently it was enough out of range to hurt things.

These things are extremely sensitive to very small temperature changes. If the sensor was off 5 degrees it could really hurt cold starting.

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:39 am 
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I'm just finishing up a head replacement and switched from ceramics to 5V Bosch. With the ceramics I never had any problems down to 0F, and had a few occasions of -5F to -10F where it started fine (just growled for a few minutes). You guys are making me nervous with this talk of troubles in the teens with the 5V plugs, I need this rig to start in the winter to get me home from work. I'm also putting in the 5V GDE program, will see if I get it running in time to test it out while it's still winter.

On a side note, my auto start lets the glow plugs run for 10-15 sec before it tries cranking, so that should help. I also used to have cold starting issues when I was using the interstate battery that came with the rig. No issues since switching to Sears Die Hard Platinum (Odyssey).

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:42 am 
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Just replaced the Etecnos with the certified 5v Bosch from Europe and the CRD starts with no trouble in cold weather (18 degrees). A few turns of the engine and it starts great.. smoothly purring, not huffing and sputtering.

The Etecnos were the worse.

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Stock 7V program.
Had the original ceramics in for 100,000 miles. Thought it started fine.
Changed them to 7V Etechno1 when I did the timing belt. Horrible, hateful starting.
Changed them to 5V Bosch (same 7V program). Starting fine again.

It will start fine in the single digits (°F) with 2 key cycles without being plugged in. A little chug and rattle at first, but not bad. Now with 115K miles.

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:23 pm 
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265,000 plus KM's on the factory glow-worms. PO did not replace them as far as I can tell, looking at the book of invoices. Not sure wether 5v,7v ceramic or what have you. Not about to look. They work great. Turn key , lights go out , fire it up. I do use Diesel Kleen white bottle in fall winter and cold spring. Grey bottle in summer. I dose it heavy.

I pre polish my fuel to strip water out and run the factory fuel filter, and am running a 990cca Costco battery. Plug the heater in when I can but not always possible

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:39 pm 
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uncaged wrote:
Stock 7V program.
Had the original ceramics in for 100,000 miles. Thought it started fine.
Changed them to 7V Etechno1 when I did the timing belt. Horrible, hateful starting.
Changed them to 5V Bosch (same 7V program). Starting fine again.

It will start fine in the single digits (°F) with 2 key cycles without being plugged in. A little chug and rattle at first, but not bad. Now with 115K miles.


Same situation here.

So....I can install the 5V Bosh without changing anything on a tune??? I am running the regular GDE Eco Tune. But, when I went from ceramic to Etechno it has been hard to start in cold weather.

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:03 pm 
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taroo wrote:
uncaged wrote:
Stock 7V program.
Had the original ceramics in for 100,000 miles. Thought it started fine.
Changed them to 7V Etechno1 when I did the timing belt. Horrible, hateful starting.
Changed them to 5V Bosch (same 7V program). Starting fine again.

It will start fine in the single digits (°F) with 2 key cycles without being plugged in. A little chug and rattle at first, but not bad. Now with 115K miles.


Same situation here.

So....I can install the 5V Bosh without changing anything on a tune??? I am running the regular GDE Eco Tune. But, when I went from ceramic to Etechno it has been hard to start in cold weather.


Yup, but the real question is how long will they last. I'll be happy with two years of better starting

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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:48 pm 
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I got my CRD running last weekend (head & rocker replacement), just in time for the recent cold spell. My previous experience with the ceramics was a few seconds of key-on and about a second of cranking before it would pop-off, this was good down to at least 0°F, if not colder. Now with the new 5V plugs (& 5V GDE re-flash), its taking some getting used to. Cold engine at 50°F ambient it takes ~3 seconds of cranking to start. After sitting outside at work all day in 20-30°F ambient it takes 5-10 seconds of cranking before starting.

Yesterday I parked next to an outlet at work and had it plugged in all day (10-20°F). It started about the same if not worse than not plugged in; I'm assuming the glow plugs didn't even energize since the coolant was already warm. Today its closer to 10°F and I didn't plug it in at work, and it started after ~10 sec of cranking and a few seconds of smoking/sputtering.

I took a video in my garage this morning (50°F ambient) of a DMM connected to one of the glow plug wires off the relay. https://youtu.be/QLI2BicVbzQ

I ordered a new relay/module to see if that makes a difference, mine is still the original 56044671AA.

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1998 Cherokee (XJ) Classic - 30" Discoverer STT's on 2" Lift, SYE, 8.25 w/Aussie Locker
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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:33 am 
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Mountainman wrote:
but the real question is how long will they last. I'll be happy with two years of better starting


FYI, my new 5v metal Bosch glow plugs are allowing the engine to start without effort at the first morning light. This has occurred multiple times in single digit temps.

They start the vehicle with little effort in the same way as the original Bosch ceramic plugs did and my ECU software on the 2006 CRD, has not been updated to the latest 5v glow plug programming because that vehicle operates on the latest Yeti tune.

At the cost of 7.33-pound sterling or $8.92 for each original certified Bosch glow plug, ... I bought an extra set of 4 to keep on the shelf in case that happens and so far no problems after many weeks of cold morning engine starts.

I believe that Bosch worked out the kinks in this latest batch of plugs because they operate in the same fashion as the original ceramic glow plugs did or better, I don't see a difference.

Very happy with the results and so is the Jeep.

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2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:56 pm 
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racertracer wrote:
FYI, my new 5v metal Bosch glow plugs are allowing the engine to start without effort at the first morning light. This has occurred multiple times in single digit temps.

They start the vehicle with little effort in the same way as the original Bosch ceramic plugs did and my ECU software on the 2006 CRD, has not been updated to the latest 5v glow plug programming because that vehicle operates on the latest Yeti tune.
I read your other posts and bought the same 5V plugs from the Green Spark Plug Company, couple of questions:

- When starting in single digit temps, how long does it have to crank before it starts? (I'm assuming you're not using the block heater?)
- You mentioned you don't have the 5V GP program, so do you have the stock 7V program, or is it different from stock with the Yeti tune? Which version of the GP relay do you have?

So far mine is starting in single digits, just takes some cranking (5-10 sec) to start. With the ceramics didn't matter if the engine was warm or cold, didn't need to crank for more than 1 second before starting. The other thing I'm dealing with is it takes 3-5 seconds of cranking to start a cold engine when its 50-70°F in my garage. I'm suspicious I might have something else going on, like losing the prime on my fuel pump/injectors when the engine cools down.

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2005 Liberty (KJ) CRD Limited - GDE FT ECO-Tune, Custom Trans Tune, Euro TC, 5V Steel GP, Weeks Stage 1&2, ARP Studs
1998 Cherokee (XJ) Classic - 30" Discoverer STT's on 2" Lift, SYE, 8.25 w/Aussie Locker
1984 CJ7 (CJ) - Stock
2011 VW Routan - Wish it had a CRD!
2011 Dodge Durango - HEMI, 4WD, Factory Tow Hook & Skid Plates


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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:52 am 
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fool4wheelin wrote:
When starting in single digit temps, how long does it have to crank before it starts? (I'm assuming you're not using the block heater?)


Correct, not using the block heater, I tend to turn the key quickly on and off 4 times before fully engaging the starter... it then takes a few turns of the engine before it fires up.

fool4wheelin wrote:
You mentioned you don't have the 5V GP program, so do you have the stock 7V program, or is it different from stock with the Yeti tune? Which version of the GP relay do you have?


The Yeti tune has a GP software that I believe to be the original 7v program (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

fool4wheelin wrote:
So far mine is starting in single digits, just takes some cranking (5-10 sec) to start. With the ceramics didn't matter if the engine was warm or cold, didn't need to crank for more than 1 second before starting. The other thing I'm dealing with is it takes 3-5 seconds of cranking to start a cold engine when its 50-70°F in my garage. I'm suspicious I might have something else going on, like losing the prime on my fuel pump/injectors when the engine cools down.


I never had my engine start with one turn of the motor with the original ceramics in single digit temps.

You may have something else going on, clean the injectors and upper cylinder head with a quality fuel system cleaner. That will clean injectors and everything else in the upper parts of the head.

I know dirty injectors, carbon encrusted cylinder chambers, fouled valve guides and valve stems will create slow diesel engine starts. Start by cleaning those parts with a quality diesel fuel injector cleaner along with an upper cylinder head cleaner and you'll notice quicker smoother starts once again. Cleaning those parts will take a few tank fulls of fuel.

I recently added a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil and CRC Motor treatment at fill up to maintain the fuel injectors and internal engine parts clean.

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2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
1982 Fiat 124 Spider Convertible. "Fiona"


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 Post subject: Re: COLD START GLOW PLUG RESEARCH - I NEED YOUR FEEDBACK
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:41 pm 
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I just did a head swap, so the head was clean and my combustion chamber appeared to be spotless. Took the injectors in to be bench tested so those should be good too. When I was done putting it back together I bled the fuel filter, changed oil and added MMO to both crankcase and fuel tank. Is there a quick way to get a reading from the fuel rail pressure sensor? My ScanGaugeII doesn't pick it up.

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2005 Liberty (KJ) CRD Limited - GDE FT ECO-Tune, Custom Trans Tune, Euro TC, 5V Steel GP, Weeks Stage 1&2, ARP Studs
1998 Cherokee (XJ) Classic - 30" Discoverer STT's on 2" Lift, SYE, 8.25 w/Aussie Locker
1984 CJ7 (CJ) - Stock
2011 VW Routan - Wish it had a CRD!
2011 Dodge Durango - HEMI, 4WD, Factory Tow Hook & Skid Plates


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