KJ Cherokee running rough.

JasonKJ · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:38 pm **Posts:** 41

Hi, I posted in the KJ section, and was told to come here.

Here is a video of the engine starting and running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGWwtT_en4c

I'll be starting the disassembly now that I have cleared a spot in the garage to work on it.

Hi All.

First post,

I just bought a KJ Cherokee 2.8 CRD 05' model that was advertised as 'running rough' sight unseen, as is. Just under 200,000KM on the engine

It starts, but runs very rough. Lots of white smoke from the exhaust under acceleration, or when the engine is revved.
Initial inspection showed a cracked hose going from the turbo to the airbox, but patching that hose did nothing to improve the rough idle / low power.

The engine also makes a sort of puffing sound coming out of the intake - this is why I'm thinking there is an issue with an intake valve.

It had a timing belt replaced around 5000KM ago, is there any way the timing could be out? would it still run at all?
Is there an easy way for me to check the timing?

Do these engines commonly have any problems on the intake side? cams? rockers? I did read that they can have problems with the exhaust valves.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:56 am

Its possible that the timing belt job was screwed up.
Its likely that the rockers are worn out.

In the video I hear a lot of air rushing sound. Check your intake and boost hoses again.

Are you loosing any coolant?

JasonKJ · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:38 pm **Posts:** 41

Not loosing any coolant, oil is clean, coolant is clean. I'll be starting to disassemble the engine tomorrow. I've already ordered rockers, as if it is not the main issue, they are probably rooted anyway.

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JasonKJ · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:38 pm **Posts:** 41

So today I started on it,

I've stripped the engine down so that I can see the Timing belt.

It looks rather old to me, it has marks on it, as if it has been changed before, but I can even see a tiny crack on the inside of it. I'll post a photo if I can capture it.

What brand is the original timing belt? Maybe it was a friday and the mechanic that claimed to have done the belt didn't do it?

not sure whether to go out and order a new belt when it was suposedly done 4,000 KM ago.

FYI it looks like the brand on the belt is "goodyear" I believe.

I am having a lot of trouble getting all of the timing pins in.. starting to think it is out of time..

Will update shortly.

JasonKJ · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:38 pm **Posts:** 41

Ok,
I got the two cam pins in.. just felt like I had to rotate the engine 300 times. they screwed in fine.

Now inserting the bottom pin.

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:45 am

Factory belts were all Goodyear. So chances are it hasn't been changed. I'd go ahead and get the full get and replace the idlers, tensioner, and water pump.

Once you have the cam pins in. The crank holes should be at 12,3,6,9 o'clock. With the witness mark at 3 o'clock.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:38 am

More than likely you have a broken rocker!
Your statement of: "The engine also makes a sort of puffing sound coming out of the intake - this is why I'm thinking there is an issue with an intake valve. " is the key.
Make sure you understand that the cam pins are not designed to hold the cams while removing the Cam gears, you must use a pulley holding tool when doing this!!!
Good luck, and keep us posted as to what you find!!!! :wink:

JasonKJ · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:38 pm **Posts:** 41

Timing belt is off. I made a tool to counter the force I was applying to the cam gear, not the best, but cheap and effective.

I think you may be right with the rockers, when I was lining up the cams, looking through the oil filler cap with a good torch, i could see the edge of one of the rockers, didn't look quite right. I'll be in there soon.

its 30 degrees and 80% humidity today... so its slow work!

JasonKJ · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:38 pm **Posts:** 41

this is really a poopy job.

bugger ever doing this again.

I've had to fight with every injector to get it out, 1 more to go... likely going to be the biggest PITA.

may be a bit of a noob question, but when I pulled injector 3 out, there was quite a bit of sand, (together with oil) on the shaft of the injector.
I'm concerned some may have fallen into the combustion chamber, is it silly to worry about it?

If it could cause issues, I would fill the cyl with diesel, and then use a long thin tube to vacuum it out, around the edges, and as much as i could, blindly.

or it is going to burn and exhaust with the first combustion?

JasonKJ · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:38 pm **Posts:** 41

so the diagnosis???

I have 3 broken rocker arms. intake side. counting from front to back, numbers 1, 2, and 3..

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:48 am

We're the actual arms broken? Or just the rollers worn out(bearing junk). If the first that would indicate there was contact as some point. Was the timing correct when you tore it down? Now that you have it open do arp head studs one by one

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:04 pm

I wouldn't worry about the debris on the injector, but clean the injector bores before you think about reassembling. I use a shotgun mop (the wool one) soaked in brake cleaner. You can't use too much.

Definitely do the ARP studs while you are there.

If the rocker arms themselves were broken, then that says the timing skipped. This is the designed failure mode. Take this opportunity to replace ALL of them, and also replace the glow plugs if they are still ceramic (I am starting to think the 5v plugs with a 7v program is the best option at the expense of plug lifespan) and then delete the EGR with the intake elbow kit or a blanking plate.

JasonKJ · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:38 pm **Posts:** 41

Two of The rocker arms were completely snapped into 2 pieces. I'm replacing all the rockers, I have a full set of new ones. What is the part number for the studs? I'm not 100% keen (cost) but if it is an essential step for longevity, I will.
Can I just re-tension the old head bolts?

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geordi · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:25 pm

No, you cannot re-use the head bolts. They are torque-to-yield and as such, the torque value is untrustworthy.

The ARP studs are essential to prevent a coolant leak from the head gasket. They are available from IDparts.com for about the same cost as anywhere else, but it is always nice to support the vendors that support our rare vehicles. The studs are $370 for the set, you will end up with two left over that some people (myself included) are interested in, so there is a small refund available that way.

You can toss the directions from the boxes, here is how to install them: You want to install them one-at-a-time in any order that pleases you, only loosening ONE bolt that you are working with before replacing it with the stud, torquing to full in one step (no loosening required) and then moving on to the next bolt. Using the ARP lube (supplied) lube up the narrow threads of the stud, the inside of the nut, and both faces of the washer and the face of the nut where it sits. Pre-assemble the nut and washer onto the stud, flush with the top of the nut. Thread it in to the block hand-tight with a 5mm allen key, and then depending on the position, torque to either 120ft-lbs or 130 ft-lbs. Use a quality 30" click torque wrench, you will need the leverage. The outer rows get 120ft-lbs of torque, the inner rows get 130.

If you look at the factory chart (I have it pictured on page 1 of the head bolt research sticky thread) the inner rows are bolts 1-10, and the outer are 11-18. You don't need to follow the numerical pattern, but it won't hurt anything if you do.

JasonKJ · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:38 pm **Posts:** 41

Trying to find a local supplier of the head studs. with very little success. I want to get this car together asap.

Can anyone suggest where I can get some local stock? I've tried a few audi and vw specialists in brisbane.

JasonKJ · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:38 pm **Posts:** 41

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:57 pm

Ouch. That definitely looks like the result of bad timing or timing belt slippage. As far as arp studs, I don't have a clue as to where to steer you locally. Most of us order them online

thermorex · **Posted:** Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:25 am

Doesn't weeks101 sell them anymore?
https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/product ... ead-studs/

JasonKJ · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:38 pm **Posts:** 41

Is that in Australia? I'm looking at id parts now, looks like they can ship with FedEx, which should take around a week. I can handle that.

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geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:55 am

Yeah, sorry - Didn't know you were in Australia.
Do we have to type upside down for you to read it properly, or is your monitor just the wrong-way-up? :seuss:

I don't know who might be a local supplier to you but here is the list from ARP's dealer locator. The part number is VW Audi 1.9L turbo diesel (1982-2002) Kit #: 204-4706 and you will need TWO KITS for the CRD.

http://arp-bolts.com/p/dealers.php

Chris Milton Engine Developments
48-50 Main North Road, Prospect, South Australia 5082
Contact: +61 (0) 8 8344 8070 | WEB SITE | EMAIL
Eagle Auto Parts
92 South Gippsland Hwy, Dandenong, VIC , 3175,
Contact: +61 (0) 3 8710 3000 | WEB SITE |
Eagle Auto Parts
8 Marigold Pl, Revesby, NSW, 2212,
Contact: +61 (0) 2 9781 1000 | WEB SITE |
Eagle Auto Parts
1/100 Park Road , Slacks Creek, QLD, 4127,
Contact: +61 (0) 7 3442 8000 | WEB SITE |
Fabre Australia
4 Frazer Street, Lakemba, NSW, 2195,
Circle Track, Drag Racing, Street Performance, Truck, Sports Car/Sport Compact, Motorcycle, Marine,
Contact: +61 (0) 2 9758 1966 | WEB SITE | EMAIL
Just Jap Auto Import
101 Bath Road, Kirrawee, NSW, 2232,
Sports Car/Sport Compact, drift
Contact: +61 (0) 2 9545 0532 | WEB SITE | EMAIL
Kavanagh Auto Parts
344 Darebin Road , Fairfield, VIC, 3078,
Circle Track, Street Performance, Marine, Road race
Contact: +61 (0) 3 9490 2699 | EMAIL
Performance Wholesale
6 Cronulla Court, Slacks Creek, QLD, 4127,
Circle Track, Drag Racing, Street Performance, Truck, Sports Car/Sport Compact, Motorcycle, Marine,
Contact: +61 (0) 7 3808 1986 | WEB SITE | EMAIL
Precision International
20 Ruse Street, Osburne Park, WA 6017
Contact: +61 (0) 1300 364 350 | WEB SITE | EMAIL
Precision International
104 Derby Street, Silverwater, NSW 2128
Contact: +61 (0) 1300 364 350 | WEB SITE | EMAIL
Precision International
111 Gardens Ave, Willawong, QLD, 4110
Contact: +61 (0) 1300 364 350 | WEB SITE | EMAIL
Precision International
1 Mais Street, Brompton, SA 5007
Contact: +61 (0) 1300 364 350 | WEB SITE | EMAIL
Precision International
591 Blackburn Rd, Notting Hill, VIC, 3168
Contact: +61 (0) 1300 364 350 | WEB SITE | EMAIL
Rocket Industries
40 Huntingwood Drive, Huntingwood, NSW, 2148,
Circle Track, Drag Racing, Street Performance, Sports Car/Sport Compact,
Contact: +61 (0) 2 8825 1900 | WEB SITE | EMAIL
S&J Automotive
33 Woodlands Terrace, Edwardstown, South Australia, 5039
Contact: +61 (0) 8 8277 2222 | WEB SITE | EMAIL
VPW Australia
122-128 Cooper St., Epping, VIC, 3076,
Circle Track, Drag Racing, Street Performance, Sports Car/Sport Compact,
Contact: +61 (0) 3 8405 9200 | WEB SITE | EMAIL

KJ Cherokee running rough.

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