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| KJ Cherokee running rough. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85963 |
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| Author: | JasonKJ [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | KJ Cherokee running rough. |
Hi, I posted in the KJ section, and was told to come here. Here is a video of the engine starting and running. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGWwtT_en4c I'll be starting the disassembly now that I have cleared a spot in the garage to work on it. Hi All. First post, I just bought a KJ Cherokee 2.8 CRD 05' model that was advertised as 'running rough' sight unseen, as is. Just under 200,000KM on the engine It starts, but runs very rough. Lots of white smoke from the exhaust under acceleration, or when the engine is revved. Initial inspection showed a cracked hose going from the turbo to the airbox, but patching that hose did nothing to improve the rough idle / low power. The engine also makes a sort of puffing sound coming out of the intake - this is why I'm thinking there is an issue with an intake valve. It had a timing belt replaced around 5000KM ago, is there any way the timing could be out? would it still run at all? Is there an easy way for me to check the timing? Do these engines commonly have any problems on the intake side? cams? rockers? I did read that they can have problems with the exhaust valves. |
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
Its possible that the timing belt job was screwed up. Its likely that the rockers are worn out. In the video I hear a lot of air rushing sound. Check your intake and boost hoses again. Are you loosing any coolant? |
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| Author: | JasonKJ [ Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
Not loosing any coolant, oil is clean, coolant is clean. I'll be starting to disassemble the engine tomorrow. I've already ordered rockers, as if it is not the main issue, they are probably rooted anyway. Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | JasonKJ [ Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
So today I started on it, I've stripped the engine down so that I can see the Timing belt. It looks rather old to me, it has marks on it, as if it has been changed before, but I can even see a tiny crack on the inside of it. I'll post a photo if I can capture it. What brand is the original timing belt? Maybe it was a friday and the mechanic that claimed to have done the belt didn't do it? not sure whether to go out and order a new belt when it was suposedly done 4,000 KM ago. FYI it looks like the brand on the belt is "goodyear" I believe. I am having a lot of trouble getting all of the timing pins in.. starting to think it is out of time.. Will update shortly. |
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| Author: | JasonKJ [ Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
Ok, I got the two cam pins in.. just felt like I had to rotate the engine 300 times. they screwed in fine. Now inserting the bottom pin. |
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| Author: | jws84_02 [ Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
Factory belts were all Goodyear. So chances are it hasn't been changed. I'd go ahead and get the full get and replace the idlers, tensioner, and water pump. Once you have the cam pins in. The crank holes should be at 12,3,6,9 o'clock. With the witness mark at 3 o'clock. |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
More than likely you have a broken rocker! Your statement of: "The engine also makes a sort of puffing sound coming out of the intake - this is why I'm thinking there is an issue with an intake valve. " is the key. Make sure you understand that the cam pins are not designed to hold the cams while removing the Cam gears, you must use a pulley holding tool when doing this!!! Good luck, and keep us posted as to what you find!!!! 
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| Author: | JasonKJ [ Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
Timing belt is off. I made a tool to counter the force I was applying to the cam gear, not the best, but cheap and effective. I think you may be right with the rockers, when I was lining up the cams, looking through the oil filler cap with a good torch, i could see the edge of one of the rockers, didn't look quite right. I'll be in there soon. its 30 degrees and 80% humidity today... so its slow work! |
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| Author: | JasonKJ [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
this is really a poopy job. bugger ever doing this again. I've had to fight with every injector to get it out, 1 more to go... likely going to be the biggest PITA. may be a bit of a noob question, but when I pulled injector 3 out, there was quite a bit of sand, (together with oil) on the shaft of the injector. I'm concerned some may have fallen into the combustion chamber, is it silly to worry about it? If it could cause issues, I would fill the cyl with diesel, and then use a long thin tube to vacuum it out, around the edges, and as much as i could, blindly. or it is going to burn and exhaust with the first combustion? |
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| Author: | JasonKJ [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
so the diagnosis??? I have 3 broken rocker arms. intake side. counting from front to back, numbers 1, 2, and 3.. |
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| Author: | jws84_02 [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
We're the actual arms broken? Or just the rollers worn out(bearing junk). If the first that would indicate there was contact as some point. Was the timing correct when you tore it down? Now that you have it open do arp head studs one by one |
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| Author: | geordi [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
I wouldn't worry about the debris on the injector, but clean the injector bores before you think about reassembling. I use a shotgun mop (the wool one) soaked in brake cleaner. You can't use too much. Definitely do the ARP studs while you are there. If the rocker arms themselves were broken, then that says the timing skipped. This is the designed failure mode. Take this opportunity to replace ALL of them, and also replace the glow plugs if they are still ceramic (I am starting to think the 5v plugs with a 7v program is the best option at the expense of plug lifespan) and then delete the EGR with the intake elbow kit or a blanking plate. |
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| Author: | JasonKJ [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
Two of The rocker arms were completely snapped into 2 pieces. I'm replacing all the rockers, I have a full set of new ones. What is the part number for the studs? I'm not 100% keen (cost) but if it is an essential step for longevity, I will. Can I just re-tension the old head bolts? Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | geordi [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
No, you cannot re-use the head bolts. They are torque-to-yield and as such, the torque value is untrustworthy. The ARP studs are essential to prevent a coolant leak from the head gasket. They are available from IDparts.com for about the same cost as anywhere else, but it is always nice to support the vendors that support our rare vehicles. The studs are $370 for the set, you will end up with two left over that some people (myself included) are interested in, so there is a small refund available that way. You can toss the directions from the boxes, here is how to install them: You want to install them one-at-a-time in any order that pleases you, only loosening ONE bolt that you are working with before replacing it with the stud, torquing to full in one step (no loosening required) and then moving on to the next bolt. Using the ARP lube (supplied) lube up the narrow threads of the stud, the inside of the nut, and both faces of the washer and the face of the nut where it sits. Pre-assemble the nut and washer onto the stud, flush with the top of the nut. Thread it in to the block hand-tight with a 5mm allen key, and then depending on the position, torque to either 120ft-lbs or 130 ft-lbs. Use a quality 30" click torque wrench, you will need the leverage. The outer rows get 120ft-lbs of torque, the inner rows get 130. If you look at the factory chart (I have it pictured on page 1 of the head bolt research sticky thread) the inner rows are bolts 1-10, and the outer are 11-18. You don't need to follow the numerical pattern, but it won't hurt anything if you do. |
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| Author: | JasonKJ [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
Trying to find a local supplier of the head studs. with very little success. I want to get this car together asap. Can anyone suggest where I can get some local stock? I've tried a few audi and vw specialists in brisbane. |
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| Author: | JasonKJ [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
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| Author: | jws84_02 [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
Ouch. That definitely looks like the result of bad timing or timing belt slippage. As far as arp studs, I don't have a clue as to where to steer you locally. Most of us order them online |
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| Author: | thermorex [ Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
Doesn't weeks101 sell them anymore? https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/product ... ead-studs/ |
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| Author: | JasonKJ [ Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
Is that in Australia? I'm looking at id parts now, looks like they can ship with FedEx, which should take around a week. I can handle that. Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | geordi [ Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: KJ Cherokee running rough. |
Yeah, sorry - Didn't know you were in Australia. Do we have to type upside down for you to read it properly, or is your monitor just the wrong-way-up?  I don't know who might be a local supplier to you but here is the list from ARP's dealer locator. The part number is VW Audi 1.9L turbo diesel (1982-2002) Kit #: 204-4706 and you will need TWO KITS for the CRD. http://arp-bolts.com/p/dealers.php Chris Milton Engine Developments 48-50 Main North Road, Prospect, South Australia 5082 Contact: +61 (0) 8 8344 8070 | WEB SITE | EMAIL Eagle Auto Parts 92 South Gippsland Hwy, Dandenong, VIC , 3175, Contact: +61 (0) 3 8710 3000 | WEB SITE | Eagle Auto Parts 8 Marigold Pl, Revesby, NSW, 2212, Contact: +61 (0) 2 9781 1000 | WEB SITE | Eagle Auto Parts 1/100 Park Road , Slacks Creek, QLD, 4127, Contact: +61 (0) 7 3442 8000 | WEB SITE | Fabre Australia 4 Frazer Street, Lakemba, NSW, 2195, Circle Track, Drag Racing, Street Performance, Truck, Sports Car/Sport Compact, Motorcycle, Marine, Contact: +61 (0) 2 9758 1966 | WEB SITE | EMAIL Just Jap Auto Import 101 Bath Road, Kirrawee, NSW, 2232, Sports Car/Sport Compact, drift Contact: +61 (0) 2 9545 0532 | WEB SITE | EMAIL Kavanagh Auto Parts 344 Darebin Road , Fairfield, VIC, 3078, Circle Track, Street Performance, Marine, Road race Contact: +61 (0) 3 9490 2699 | EMAIL Performance Wholesale 6 Cronulla Court, Slacks Creek, QLD, 4127, Circle Track, Drag Racing, Street Performance, Truck, Sports Car/Sport Compact, Motorcycle, Marine, Contact: +61 (0) 7 3808 1986 | WEB SITE | EMAIL Precision International 20 Ruse Street, Osburne Park, WA 6017 Contact: +61 (0) 1300 364 350 | WEB SITE | EMAIL Precision International 104 Derby Street, Silverwater, NSW 2128 Contact: +61 (0) 1300 364 350 | WEB SITE | EMAIL Precision International 111 Gardens Ave, Willawong, QLD, 4110 Contact: +61 (0) 1300 364 350 | WEB SITE | EMAIL Precision International 1 Mais Street, Brompton, SA 5007 Contact: +61 (0) 1300 364 350 | WEB SITE | EMAIL Precision International 591 Blackburn Rd, Notting Hill, VIC, 3168 Contact: +61 (0) 1300 364 350 | WEB SITE | EMAIL Rocket Industries 40 Huntingwood Drive, Huntingwood, NSW, 2148, Circle Track, Drag Racing, Street Performance, Sports Car/Sport Compact, Contact: +61 (0) 2 8825 1900 | WEB SITE | EMAIL S&J Automotive 33 Woodlands Terrace, Edwardstown, South Australia, 5039 Contact: +61 (0) 8 8277 2222 | WEB SITE | EMAIL VPW Australia 122-128 Cooper St., Epping, VIC, 3076, Circle Track, Drag Racing, Street Performance, Sports Car/Sport Compact, Contact: +61 (0) 3 8405 9200 | WEB SITE | EMAIL |
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