Cummins 2.8 Repower crate engine

Bushman5 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:05 am **Posts:** 276

This looks very interesting , and will be a headache free engine for us compared to the thing that currently resides in the CRD.

https://cumminsengines.com/repower

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:49 am

16.9 compression seems low to me, but the bigger questions will be cost and adaptation to our bellhousing and transmission.

Then there is the question of what design flaws will this one have lurking - b/c everything has something, it is just a matter of figuring it out. Seems intriguing though, definitely interested in learning more if / when it becomes available.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:10 am

They've already had a similar powerplant available.

See this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icp2Pb5uoME

Bushman5 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:05 am **Posts:** 276

For what the crate engine and extras cost , it's cheaper for me to do a Cummins swap compared to what I've already paid in repairs.

I drive a inline 6 Cummins at work. Multi million KM's on it hauling 10- 15 tons of materials multiple times a day. Never any issues. We did a water pump and a air compressor replacement, and refreshed the rings at the 5 mil km mark.

I want that kind of reliability in my jeep. Had it with this VM.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:47 pm

Installing this crate engine may not be as easy as it seems.
The 545rfe TCM requires some input from the ECM. A different ECM may not be able to communicate with the TCM.
Plus there are all the other things that may not work like tachometer, factory gauges, SKIM, ABS, and who knows what else.

It seems that this engine would be a good swap for something with a manual transmission or anything that isn't dependent on electronics to function properly.

Engine swaps were a lot easier in the days when carburetors ruled and computer controls were never thought of.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:01 pm

^^^^ THIS. So much this.

I've already bought one engine from someone that was attempting to do a swap into something less complex, and got frustrated when they (apparently) needed to salvage every wire and plug from the KJ so that the other vehicle would believe it was still a KJ. Almost bought a second from someone else in much the same situation.

I know that Cummins engines are amazing. I don't think they have ever built a bad engine. My RV has an ISC engine and it is awesome - I can roll nearly 14 tons down the road and get 11mpg doing it, when other similar size RVs struggle to find 7mpg.

If the signals to the TCM can be resolved, then this could be a great engine option. But the VM engine and Bosch computer is already a bolted-on-to-Mopar mess, which is why we can't drive down the road with a scantool connected... Because the data bus is too crowded and the TCM will reboot and throw the transmission out of overdrive! If the computer meshing isn't done right, then this is a likely scenario again.

Bushman5 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:05 am **Posts:** 276

I talked to Cummins and the Repower engine comes with a complete wiring harness, and ECM and TCM .

I know it would be a bit(h to install, but compared to going bankrupt fixing the VM and doing timing and valves every bloody year (I do high mileage).
I'm regretting buying this thing.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:28 pm

Bushman5 wrote:

I talked to Cummins and the Repower engine comes with a complete wiring harness, and ECM and TCM .

I know it would be a bit(h to install, but compared to going bankrupt fixing the VM and doing timing and valves every bloody year (I do high mileage).
I'm regretting buying this thing.

Regrets you share with others LOL

I'm not sure if I own it or it owns me. I've got to much money invested to give it away and we can't keep it on the road long enough to get our money's worth out of driving it.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:07 pm

jrsavoie wrote:

Bushman5 wrote:

I talked to Cummins and the Repower engine comes with a complete wiring harness, and ECM and TCM .

I know it would be a bit(h to install, but compared to going bankrupt fixing the VM and doing timing and valves every bloody year (I do high mileage).
I'm regretting buying this thing.

Regrets you share with others LOL

I'm not sure if I own it or it owns me. I've got to much money invested to give it away and we can't keep it on the road long enough to get our money's worth out of driving it.

This is where I am at. First and last Chrysler product for a long time.

I remember reading about a 2.8 VM swap into a TJ required pretty much every computer also be swapped. Can there really not be a standalone tcm for the 545rfe with all the Rams and srt8 vehicles running around with them? I would consider getting one for my jeep since the factory logic is so bad.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:01 pm

Bushman5 wrote:

I talked to Cummins and the Repower engine comes with a complete wiring harness, and ECM and TCM .

I know it would be a bit(h to install, but compared to going bankrupt fixing the VM and doing timing and valves every bloody year (I do high mileage).
I'm regretting buying this thing.

Coming with the wiring harness is one thing, but as this is a re-power, I'm not sure how they can supply it with a TCM because they don't know what transmission you're going to be connecting it to. Now if they specified options like OK we're going to have a Ford compatible TCM or a Chrysler compatible, or maybe somebody else… but that seems excessively complicated versus having some generic access pins for certain signals that maybe the transmission computer would want. What does it actually receive from the engine?

As far as I know, the road speed / shift points for the transmission is determined by the speed sensor on the transmission itself, while the odometer reads from the ABS. When the ABS is malfunctioning because of a bad sensor, the odometer will not work but the speedometer still does.

So this gives me some hope, I know that there is a code that can be set in the computer for a speed sensor mismatch between the transmission and the engine, so obviously there is a speed signal or engine RPM signal that is being passed to the transmission. If that was the only signal wire that needs to be given to the transmission, that should be fairly easy to chase down and connect.

Starting and running most engines only really requires two or three signals from elsewhere in the vehicle. The computer needs to have whatever fuel shut off or engine kill solenoid energized so that the engine is then in "run" mode and then power needs to be applied to the starter motor. Everything else is just handled by the engine computer and speed and sensor signals given to the body computer for the dashboard.

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peteyz24 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:02 am

What trans did Chrysler run behind the 5.9

KC-CRD · **Joined:** Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:20 pm **Posts:** 47

Automatic transmissions need at least RPM from the engine to control overdrive. Even going back to '94, my mechanical 7.3 sent RPM to the transmission. When the tach sensor became intermittent the transmission disabled OD and went into limp mode. If you have any kind of traction control, it will also need RPM. Overall, it could be a simple as connecting the ECU to the CAN bus. But it never seems to be easy in the auto industry where embrace and extend the standard is common. The TCM also has to know the horsepower and torque specs of the attached engine to provide the proper shift points and to protect itself from being overpowered. So even if you could retain the existing TCM you'd have to find a way to get it reprogrammed.

I'd be interested in the transmission bolt pattern to see what adapters are available. I'd love to repower the 4.3l in my little truck. And then, does it have a timing belt or chain?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:15 am

peteyz24 wrote:

What trans did Chrysler run behind the 5.9

47RH TRANSMISSION
The 47RH was developed based on the 46RH, but with many improvements and revisions that rendered the transmission suitable for Cummins turbodiesel applications.
:SOMBRERO:

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:39 am

KC-CRD wrote:

And then, does it have a timing belt or chain?

Looks like it is not an overhead cam design engine!

The light pickup version of the 2.8L Cummins is based on previous engine designs - the European ISF2.8 and the agricultural/industrial QSF2.8. Obviously, a key difference in this variation is the emissions equipment, as it was necessary to meet strict regulations at the Federal level for on-highway diesels in the U.S. The engine features a unique diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC), selective catalytic reduction system (SCR), and diesel particular filter (DPF); all three systems are combined and mounted to the engine, rather than further down in the exhaust stream. The engine also featured a water-to-air intercooler (charge-air-cooler).
Cylinder Head Material: Cast iron
Engine Block Material: Cast iron
Injection: Direct Injection, high pressure common rail, Piezo injectors
Aspiration: Turbocharged, water-to-air intercooler/charge air cooler
Valvetrain: OHV
Weight: Approx. 475 lbs, not including emissions equipment
Horsepower: 210 hp @ 3,600 rpm
Torque: 385 lb-ft @ 1,800 rpm

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:50 pm

Looks this is a good choice for putting it to a wrangler, especially a cheap tj. Or an older small truck such as ranger. Keep/add a manual transmission, do some wiring and you're good to go. Would still not see somebody spending good thousands for a new engine just to put it in an old truck/wrangler, without changing tires, bumpers, lift kits, etc...

KC-CRD · **Joined:** Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:20 pm **Posts:** 47

I'm giving some serious consideration to using one for my S10, 4.3 5spd. It's simpler in that I don't have to worry about communicating with the transmission. But it's 50-75 lbs heavier than the 4.3, so it will need some suspension help. There will need to be some integration to the CAN bus for gauges and idiot lights. It will probably require Road Ranger diagnostics in addition to the ODBII. Custom motor mounts. Custom accessory brackets for the power steering and AC. (including custom hoses to relocate them to the passenger side) And then an intercooler and some place to mount it since there isn't a whole lot of space in front of the AC condenser. For me, it's a special case since I have owned it since it was new in '02. The 4.3l is healthy, but it be more usable with the extra torque. I might even be able to recycle the 4.3 into a 70's CJ that a local charity has. And well, diesel S10, finally.

Recovering the cost in a sale is not a consideration.

A Liberty conversion might be easier since the size and weight of the VM is probably similar. Could connect the fuel system right at the filter head and swap intercoolers. Might even be able to recover $3-4k selling my VM to someone with a broken block that doesn't want to deal with a conversion.

Something I think most of us will like, it has a chain instead of a belt turning the cams. It appears to be on the back side of the engine. Maintenance items are all on the drivers side of the motor, which basically consists of oil filter and fuel filter/water separator. It is a very impressive, fully contained package. Give it a battery, fuel, radiator, and an exhaust with muffler. And should be cleaner than the VM for people who have smog tests.

I'm still trying to determine what transmissions will bolt directly and I'd like some more info on interfacing the ECU with existing systems. If I haven't figured it by the time Cummins says it's available, I'll ask them directly. Price is still up in the air too. At $7k + various custom adapters and brackets, it's a chunk of change but not horrible if you have problems with your VM. If it comes in at $11k+ then it's going to be a more difficult sale.

joe_ · **Posted:** Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:11 am

KC-CRD wrote:

Something I think most of us will like, it has a chain instead of a belt turning the cams. It appears to be on the back side of the engine.

If you're looking at the ISF2.8 (as there doesn't seem to be any usable pictures of the R2.8 yet), I think it may actually be a gear driven cam; no chain or belt to worry about.

Bushman5 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:05 am **Posts:** 276

^ yes its gear drive. Was back at Cummins today (one of our scrap metal customers) and had a chat with the lead hand. Big beautiful solid steel gears.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:18 pm

Did you ask / did he have any comments about wiring / TCM / compatibility with any particular drivetrains? :BANANA:

olypopper · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:30 pm

https://www.powertraincontrolsolutions. ... /TCM-2000/

545rfe is old news when it comes to stand alone trans controllers. Hotrodders have been doing it for several years since 5.7 hemi crate engines have become available as crate engines.

I welcome this little Cummins as I KNOW it will be more reliable than the VM........and I don't feel the VM is that bad. I think too many people blindly think that because it's a diesel it will last forever with minimal maintenance. This is a light duty diesel and requires love.

Cummins 2.8 Repower crate engine

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