transmission unresponsive, no fault codes, noises @ idle

SFHLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:59 pm

Hello everyone,

Unfortunately this happened about 140 miles from home, cruising down highway 395 at around 75 (cruise control on). I heard a slight change in overall sound (subtle, but slightly more "knocking/pinging" sound then I've heard before--at that point I wasn't sure if it was engine or in the drivetrain).

Suddenly, as I was cruising at 75, RPMs shot up to 4-5k. I immediately put my foot on the brake and slowed down and pulled over and stopped the car (my first fear was runaway turbo). But car seemed to idle relatively normal, no smoke, etc.. When revved, it seemed normal except for a strange clanging or shudder at the end as RPMs came back down. After giving Geordi a call, we decided it made sense to try and drive it a little further since it didn't seem to be an engine issue from the symptoms I described.

So I cancelled my tow, started it up, shifted into D to get going and . . . nothing. R, nothing, etc. The transmission was completely unresponsive in any gear. Transmission fluid is correct ATF+4, was clean and pink and was above the hot high point. I had to have it towed on a flatbed all 140 miles home (luckily was covered for 100 miles of that, but still).

If I run the car now, I definitely get lots of strange noises at idle. One would be a clanging noise (not in videos). Most prominent is something like a grinding belt noise that makes the engine shudder or jump--hard to describe but best heard in these videos (EDIT: videos posted):

In this video you can hear the noises starting around 22s in: https://youtu.be/yF72zszCnrc
In this one, it happens a bunch of times at approximately 4s, 10s, 17s and more: https://youtu.be/F3z-UHVQ5Bg
In this video you can hear it just once around the 11s mark and see the engine jump: https://youtu.be/yhxt8LI9HhU

At this point my thought is that this is NOT engine-related (the only thing that effects my engine at idle is these occasional clanging and grinding noises which cause the engine to physically shudder or jump). Is there a belt that drives a transmission fluid pump somewhere? I will not be working on the car myself, so this could get costly. Just trying to see if I should go straight to a transmission shop in the area, or take it to a more general mechanic.

Only other info I can think of:
- I tried to read codes and nothing came up on either my GDE flasher or my OBD iphone reader.
- Just turned over 90k miles
- The car had seen lots of full time 4x4 use over the weekend in the snow
- I've never messed with the differentials or differential fluids
- I never serviced, drained or changed the transmission fluid or filters.
- When I received the car, transmission fluid was quite low and had a problem getting going after sitting for a while. Topping off the ATF+4 fixed all issues I was having and it behaved fine for the past year or two.
- As far as I know, the TC is original (actually I don't have information prior to 67k miles, so I don't know) but I've never felt the shudder described. I don't know what the symptoms of a completely failed TC are.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:06 am

Almost sounds as if all the Flexplate - TC bolts have come out.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:26 am

Yup. Sounds like a flexplate or torque converter problem.

The problem should be obvious once the transmission is removed.

SFHLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:40 pm

I'm uploading videos now and should be able to post soon. But sounds like the consensus is that it is a flexplate/TC issue, so I should probably get it towed straight to a transmission shop.

Not knowing much about this, I have a few follow-up questions:
- Does this mean that the TC is likely a goner? So I should look into upgrading to the Euro or other more reliable TC? Or even upgrade anyway if they're pulling the transmission?
- Is there possible damage to the transmission at this point?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:47 pm

SFHLibertyCRD wrote:

I'm uploading videos now and should be able to post soon. But sounds like the consensus is that it is a flexplate/TC issue, so I should probably get it towed straight to a transmission shop.

Not knowing much about this, I have a few follow-up questions:
- Does this mean that the TC is likely a goner? So I should look into upgrading to the Euro or other more reliable TC? Or even upgrade anyway if they're pulling the transmission?
- Is there possible damage to the transmission at this point?

If you pull transmission, yes, install an upgraded torque converter, at least a Hemi TC or a Suncoast if you want the absolute best and have the funds.
Be sure and get the transmission shop to install a new front pump assembly while you got it out as there are some wear issues with them.
:wink:

SFHLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:53 pm

Videos posted:

In this video you can hear the noises starting around 22s in: https://youtu.be/yF72zszCnrc
In this one, it happens a bunch of times at approximately 4s, 10s, 17s and more: https://youtu.be/F3z-UHVQ5Bg
In this video you can hear it just once around the 11s mark and see the engine jump: https://youtu.be/yhxt8LI9HhU

Thoughts? Will have it towed to a transmission shop on Thursday probably. Anyone have leads on best prices for Euro TC (most likely to keep costs down), or the Hemi or Suncoast that WWDiesel mentioned?

Also, excuse me if this is a totally ignorant question, but is the rear main seal anywhere near the parts that will be removed? I seem to remember I have a slight weeping in that area.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:22 pm

chrysler 545RFE Transmission/Torque Converter Info:
Mopar euro torque converter - RL037142AA (was 68037142AA)
5.7L Hemi TC -- 4736587AC
R4736587AD. (reman)
Suncoast -- CRD-1ES TC phone No.: 850.864.2361
:google:

Stock Mopar OEM TC is rated for 300 ft. lbs. max (406 Nm)
Mopar Euro TC is rated for 400 ft. lbs. max (~ 542 Nm)
Hemi TC is rated for? (supposedly ~500 ft. lbs. max)
Suncoast CRD-1ES TC is rated for 600 ft. lbs. max (813 Nm)

Your transmission shop should be able to supply you with a Hemi TC as well.... :wink:

SFHLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:30 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

chrysler 545RFE Transmission/Torque Converter Info:
Mopar euro torque converter - RL037142AA (was 68037142AA)
5.7L Hemi TC -- 4736587AC
R4736587AD. (reman)
Suncoast -- CRD-1ES TC phone No.: 850.864.2361
:google:

Stock Mopar OEM TC is rated for 300 ft. lbs. max (406 Nm)
Mopar Euro TC is rated for 400 ft. lbs. max (~ 542 Nm)
Hemi TC is rated for? (supposedly ~500 ft. lbs. max)
Suncoast CRD-1ES TC is rated for 600 ft. lbs. max (813 Nm)

Your transmission shop should be able to supply you with a Hemi TC as well.... :wink:

Thanks for the references. Are there any other modifications needed for the Hemi TC? Any downsides? What differences besides the fact that it handles more torque?

Also, if I or the shop were to order the torque converter based on the part number, is there any chance I will be sent a different revision that isn't the Euro version?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:13 pm

SFHLibertyCRD wrote:

Thanks for the references. Are there any other modifications needed for the Hemi TC? Any downsides? What differences besides the fact that it handles more torque?
Also, if I or the shop were to order the torque converter based on the part number, is there any chance I will be sent a different revision that isn't the Euro version?

The only other recommendations are to replace the front pump assembly with an updated front pump assembly and install a TransGo shift kit while you are replacing the torque converter.

No downsides that I am aware of!

I would not waste time on the Euro TC, most on this forum now recommend the Hemi TC as a better option and they are readily available at decent prices...
I have a Suncoast TC so I cannot offer any advice on the Hemi TC's performance based on experience, but I am sure there are some on this forum who have installed the Hemi TC and can offer you some sound advice based on their experience... :wink:

I do know that some on here have posted that after installing a Euro TC, it still would not hold the torque in lock-up and would shudder... :roll:

SFHLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:26 am

WWDiesel wrote:

The only other recommendations are to replace the front pump assembly with an updated front pump assembly and install a TransGo shift kit while you are replacing the torque converter.

No downsides that I am aware of!

I would not waste time on the Euro TC, most on this forum now recommend the Hemi TC as a better option and they are readily available at decent prices...
I have a Suncoast TC so I cannot offer any advice on the Hemi TC's performance based on experience, but I am sure there are some on this forum who have installed the Hemi TC and can offer you some sound advice based on their experience... :wink:

I do know that some on here have posted that after installing a Euro TC, it still would not hold the torque in lock-up and would shudder... :roll:

Someone told me you don't necessarily need the transgo shift kit with the updated front pump? What exactly does the shift kit do?

Also, maybe I haven't been around in a while, but can you point me to some of the threads that commend the Hemi TC over the Euro one? (I did search but not seeing a clear preference of one over the other.)

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:16 am

The sounds in your video seem to be the flex plate ring gear hitting bolts at the bottom of the bellhousing where they have fallen out.

I would not run it anymore till it's taken care of.

Like Geordi says "bad sounds mean bad things happening"

I wouldn't risk the bolts breaking through the bottom of the bellhousing.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:42 am

SFHLibertyCRD wrote:

Someone told me you don't necessarily need the transgo shift kit with the updated front pump? What exactly does the shift kit do?

Also, maybe I haven't been around in a while, but can you point me to some of the threads that commend the Hemi TC over the Euro one? (I did search but not seeing a clear preference of one over the other.)

Price and availability along with the fact that the HEMI TC should perform better and has better numbers than the Euro. I would ask for advice from someone on here that has ran both of them for a comparison...
Did find this thread:> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85153&p=897464&hilit=hemi+tc#p897464

Transgo FEATURES: Corrects/Prevents/Reduces: 2-3 neutral, Drainback, Limp, TCC slide bang and Slip codes. Heavy Duty Accumulator plate/cover and Special accumulator seals. Has tough Snap ring, Saves Pump and VB. Includes new TC limit valve system.

See this web page on the Transgo Kit:> http://www.transgo.com/products.php?prd ... ntview=Yes

SFHLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:54 am

GordnadoCRD wrote:

The sounds in your video seem to be the flex plate ring gear hitting bolts at the bottom of the bellhousing where they have fallen out.

I would not run it anymore till it's taken care of.

Like Geordi says "bad sounds mean bad things happening"

I wouldn't risk the bolts breaking through the bottom of the bellhousing.

Thanks. Yes, I have not run it at all since taking those videos. It definitely doesn't sound good.

WWDiesel. I'll look into the Transgo also.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:00 am

I've been eyeing various torque converters for months now and I have to agree with Flash.

This is the Hemi converter from Florida converters. It's not the very best thing out there, but as far as I've found, it's the most you can get for the money. Give them a call. You'll see what I mean.

http://www.floridatorqueconverters.com/Chrysler_Torque_Converter_13-37.html

EDIT: From all info that I've been able to compare, the Euro torque converter is, as of late, more expensive than the hemi converter, and the Hemi has a lower stall speed (1900ish vs 2200ish for the euro) which basically means slightly better mileage, depending on how you drive. (locked up, it makes no difference, but stop and go in town, where the converter clutch is unlocked, is where it will make the difference). Either one offers a lockup clutch that will stand up to GDE's Hot Tune.

SFHLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:24 am

GordnadoCRD wrote:

I've been eyeing various torque converters for months now and I have to agree with Flash.

This is the Hemi converter from Florida converters. It's not the very best thing out there, but as far as I've found, it's the most you can get for the money. Give them a call. You'll see what I mean.

http://www.floridatorqueconverters.com/Chrysler_Torque_Converter_13-37.html

EDIT: From all info that I've been able to compare, the Euro torque converter is, as of late, more expensive than the hemi converter, and the Hemi has a lower stall speed (1900ish vs 2200ish for the euro) which basically means slightly better mileage, depending on how you drive. (locked up, it makes no difference, but stop and go in town, where the converter clutch is unlocked, is where it will make the difference). Either one offers a lockup clutch that will stand up to GDE's Hot Tune.

So you think the one that the TC made for the hemi (13-37) is a better choice than the 13-35 made for the CRD? The last post here seems to indicate that FTC people don't recommend that: viewtopic.php?f=98&t=78559

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:39 am

Well the choice is ultimately up to you. I don't know how you drive , where you drive, whether you tow, or many other things that factor into someone's choice.

Call and speak with them. Whatever your ultimate choice, you can't go wrong by talking with them. The more they know about all these things though, the better they can guide you.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:49 am

SFHLibertyCRD wrote:

GordnadoCRD wrote:

I've been eyeing various torque converters for months now and I have to agree with Flash.

This is the Hemi converter from Florida converters. It's not the very best thing out there, but as far as I've found, it's the most you can get for the money. Give them a call. You'll see what I mean.

http://www.floridatorqueconverters.com/Chrysler_Torque_Converter_13-37.html

EDIT: From all info that I've been able to compare, the Euro torque converter is, as of late, more expensive than the hemi converter, and the Hemi has a lower stall speed (1900ish vs 2200ish for the euro) which basically means slightly better mileage, depending on how you drive. (locked up, it makes no difference, but stop and go in town, where the converter clutch is unlocked, is where it will make the difference). Either one offers a lockup clutch that will stand up to GDE's Hot Tune.

So you think the one that the TC made for the hemi (13-37) is a better choice than the 13-35 made for the CRD? The last post here seems to indicate that FTC people don't recommend that: viewtopic.php?f=98&t=78559

The TC that "thefunk" bought was a custom build by FTC based on the Hemi (13-37) TC.
I'm sure its better and a bit stronger than the regular Hemi TC.
Natrually, FTC is gonna try to sell its better and slightly more expensive model.

Quote:

Installed a billet unit from Florida Torque Converters. Very pleased with the unit. Made especially for the diesel from the "correct" housing, stall speed lowered to maximize torque. Price was $359 plus freight, no core exchange.

It would be very nice if FTC would put some info about this TC on their website. :roll:

I guess they want you to call them.

SFHLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:48 pm

Unfortunately the shop is quoting me $1650 for labor alone for this job. They have not pulled the transmission yet to see what the damage is, but this cost is for pulling and reinstalling a trans in the Jeep. (Given the cost of living out here, I'm not entirely surprised by the quote, but it hurts.)

To make matters worse, at this point, they suspect the damage will be more than just the TC, so I'm fearing that I will need at least a partial rebuild of the trans in addition to other parts. This is not looking good and has me wishing I had heeded the warnings more and stayed away from these unique cars.

I have neither the time, the skills, the space nor the tools and/or friends to tackle this job on my own. At this point I've given them the green light to tear into it so I can get a better picture of what is going on. What a bummer.

SFHLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:43 pm

So, the shop finally got things apart. Everyone here was spot on and it was the bolts that had backed out and were bouncing around in there doing damage. At this point, they don't think that anything else was damaged besides the TC, flex plate, etc. Also, one of the holes got a bit ovalized in the bell housing (?). I am going over tomorrow morning to look everything over and suggest what work I would like done while it is all open.

Here is my list so far. Please review and let me know if I'm missing anything:
- Euro Torque Converter (probably just doing this because I don't have funds to put toward anything fancier--I may be convinced to switch to the Hemi but also not seeing a lot of actual reviews on the forum from people who have had it in): 68037142AA / RL037142AA / R8037142AA Best online price, $305 + $100 core + shipping. Also, Florida TC quoted me $399 for stock stall and $499 for low stall billet TC plus shipping. That is another possibility.
- Front transmission pump (any reason NOT to get the remanufactured? way cheaper) - 68009879AE / RL009879AE/ R8009879AE (remanufactured?) Best online price: Remanufactured only $83.64
Transmission filters & fluid:
- flat transmission filter - 5013470AD
- spin-on transmission filter - 5179267AC
- ATF+4 Transmission fluid ONLY (NO Valvoline MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF or any other ATF)
- NOTE: I've decided to just do a front transmission pump but not the Transgo kit. Too much mixed opinions on whether it was really necessary.

Please let me know if I'm missing anything or if you have any last minute advice.

SFHLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:53 pm

Finally back on the road, $2200 later :banghead:

Had the Euro TC and a new transmission pump, fluid, filters installed. Runs fine.

Looking at the old TC, it appears all the bolt heads sheared right off. This does not seem like a good situation of the bolts can't even handle the torque. I initially thought they had backed out but that appears not to be the case.

transmission unresponsive, no fault codes, noises @ idle

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