FFD Jeep Liberty CRD Stage 4 Extreme

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:23 pm

thermorex wrote:

Mountainman wrote:

thermorex wrote:

I'd rather put a controllable switched locker in front rather than a dtt, Eaton may have some, not sure about arb, but if you go with rear arb, why wouldn't you go with arb front (if available for crd) also? You need a compressor anyways... Also, 4:10 may be a bit too low for 31ish tires, unless you don't care about speed too much.

If you're concerned with overheating, I'd either try the hayden (if cheaper and you have it already) either a very good fan like ffd and some form of shroud. I seriously haven't had an overheating issue even when I got stuck in the snow few years ago and for 20 min I pulled myself out inch by inch...

Don't mind my ramblings, just sharing my thoughts.

Yeah, I'm not all that impressed with my truetrac, and for not much more you can get a Eaton E locker. I'm not an ARB locker fan because the OX is much more trail or home repairable, and it has a drive away feature. I'm going ox e-locker in the rear, and probably the Eaton in the front. I haven't watched reviews of the Eaton yet. But, there's a great you tube review on the Ox that shows how it is immensely more simple and less likely to fail.

I've heard ox are dope... Like really good. They make e lockers with manual override, not sure if for 8 1/4 but they do have them. I'm contemplating... I already have a dtt for rear, should I get the axle tools and install it myself, or just get an ox E locker and install it at a shop... Big dilema, Lol. I'm not a fan of arb, even though I admit they make great products. But there's nothing like a good ol' "made in the US of A".

I wouldn't like any locker that is not switchable in front, would drive me nuts when turning, especially in the winter.

Well, to be fair, I live on the North face of a mountain, and when I left the driveway this morning on polished, rain covered ice, the truetrac brought me up the slight incline from a dead stop, so it's good, but a true 50/50 traction to both fronts is what I need. Now, that was with BFG atko2's that are severe weather rated, but they are not nearly as sticky as a true snow tire. After a few years of use in really slick conditions, I can't complain about the cornering, and you certainly WOULD NOT want a true locker engaged on slick corners, because it would make you slide, but you'd have regular 4wd open dif which would be just fine, and lock it for crawling. So, the cornering is actually good with the DTT, but it tugs the steering wheel a little bit when tires are slipping (off road climbing up a hill). I know you guys probably know this crap, but I'm on a good rant here...

As for the detroit you bought. If it's the true trac, I don't think it's any harder to install an E or Air Ox, because you have to set up the gears anyhow, or at least I did when I installed my DTT. Now, if it's the detroit locker, I think that's a lunchbox locker, like the aussie locker, and I have read nothing but good things about them, but they click and might not be good at higher speed icy roads... I put an Aussie in the front of my 4runner, and it was great and would climb trees, but you can't have a front lunchbox engaged at all on pavement or it will break something fast. 4runner wasn't a DD, so the aussie was perfect, cheap, and easy to install... I think you'd get the same thing out of a Detroit locker.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:33 pm

You're right about the DTT, but I was a little limited while trying to climb uphill in deep snow. A true locker would be better for my driveway :banghead:

I'm pretty sure it will fit the 30A, but an expert should clarify (Oh Tom, where are you?)

I have the same concerns about a locker on our aluminum pumpkin, so I'll probably wait until I can afford the steel dif, and then run the Eaton E, or an OX up front also. I think they make an OX for both front and rear.

I read some bad reviews on the Eaton, but they were with big tires, like 35's, and they have improved the design. If the Eaton E dana 30 one doesn't have 4 spline like the OX and ARB, then I won't use it.

One last thought: onboard air. As for me, if I want air I'll have an independent pump that can just clamp on to the battery with roach clips, because I don't want extra wires and clutter all over, but that's just me. I actually decided to forego a winch because of that same reason. I have a come-along with a snatch block, but I don't do rock-crawling or Moab... Cheap, and I can leave the extra weight out of the jeep when I want.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:57 pm

Mountainman wrote:

You're right about the DTT, but I was a little limited while trying to climb uphill in deep snow. A true locker would be better for my driveway :banghead:

I'm pretty sure it will fit the 30A, but an expert should clarify (Oh Tom, where are you?)

I have the same concerns about a locker on our aluminum pumpkin, so I'll probably wait until I can afford the steel dif, and then run the Eaton E, or an OX up front also. I think they make an OX for both front and rear.

I read some bad reviews on the Eaton, but they were with big tires, like 35's, and they have improved the design. If the Eaton E dana 30 one doesn't have 4 spline like the OX and ARB, then I won't use it.

One last thought: onboard air. As for me, if I want air I'll have an independent pump that can just clamp on to the battery with roach clips, because I don't want extra wires and clutter all over, but that's just me. I actually decided to forego a winch because of that same reason. I have a come-along with a snatch block, but I don't do rock-crawling or Moab... Cheap, and I can leave the extra weight out of the jeep when I want.

I contacted OX and they said it will not fit our D30A because the cover is different. The actuation cable runs through the cover on the Ox lockers. He even directed me to JBA's steel diff so I think he knows what hes talking about.

By the time you do a steel diff swap, gears, lockers and all the other crap you are looking at some serious cash. Its like $4000.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:21 pm

I thought there was someone on LOST with Ox front and rear. Maybe a Google search will turn him up. He might be sas'd...
Yeah, that front diff will probably explode if you ever turn much at all while locked. That sure would limit where you could go :-)r

Big money for sure. I guess that's what makes the DTT sensible in the front. Too bad just the dif is how much shipped with tax? $1700?

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:24 pm

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, I went and Google dtt:
http://www.eaton.com/RU/Eaton/ProductsS ... /index.htm

I may be wrong, but the helical gears in dtt will actually make the Diff fully locked once it properly engages, and unless the wheel spin stops, it will stay engaged. This is what I referred to as "don't like". This Diff should be similar in operation to a torsen Diff. And also this is the reason I would not want one installed in the front.

Regarding breaking the Diff, it's always easier to winch it than wrench it. So if you know your vehicle limits, you won't break anything. I'd use the front locker in a stock Dana 30a only on mud, snow or ice, and even that, very sparingly, never rock climbing and never on tires bigger than 30-31 inch. There are folks breaking Dana 60, chromoly axles, etc all the time, especially in performance offroading. But they don't have a choice all the time to take it easy due to time constraints.

Bfg ta ko/ko2 are not too good on ice, I have had them for years. Excellent on pavement wear and tear, good in dry offroad, so-so in mud, with ko2 being better than ko. It's probably the best offroad tire overall that is also forgiving on pavement roads and not too noisy.

Detroit lockers are maybe the most reliable out there and they don't cost a lot either. I'd use those without a doubt on a dedicated offroad vehicle.

Onboard air is not really a must unless you have air lockers and popping tires out a lot, which means some really serious offroad. I mainly do some "safari" offroad, camping, some ditch crossing, stuff like that. Anyways, the liberty isn't made to be a true offroad, not w/o some serious mods, like tjkj's.

I'd be interested to see how the fan experiment ends up mass-hole, I think if you'll be OK with the hayden you may be fine with an ffd fan also. Oh, I'd also try the stant 190F if I were you. You can set the controller to start the fan at 205F and stop at 190F. I believe that's the interval on the flexalite controller (or it's 20F?).

Regarding your ecoboost, did you take into consideration the full gear ratio, that includes transfer case, transmission and Diff gearing?

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:16 am

I agree with all of that except the dtt workings. It's pretty much invisible on the road unless you're accelerating hard and making a tire slip, then it shifts the torque, but gradually, unlike an auto locker that really jerks the steering wheel. I bet you'd actually like them. On their website they probably still have a video on how it works, but it's just gears, no locking at all. Pretty neat design.

FWIW
I'm going to install the OX #: OX-C82527329 in the rear, and maybe eventually replace my front dtt with an Ox or Eaton. E locker options for sure :rockon:

Looked into the steel front dif, and it requires different gears and new bearings, which brings its cost north of $2k, and that doesn't include the locker that's over $1k complete.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:27 am

thermorex wrote:

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, I went and Google dtt:
http://www.eaton.com/RU/Eaton/ProductsS ... /index.htm

I may be wrong, but the helical gears in dtt will actually make the Diff fully locked once it properly engages, and unless the wheel spin stops, it will stay engaged. This is what I referred to as "don't like". This Diff should be similar in operation to a torsen Diff. And also this is the reason I would not want one installed in the front.

Regarding breaking the Diff, it's always easier to winch it than wrench it. So if you know your vehicle limits, you won't break anything. I'd use the front locker in a stock Dana 30a only on mud, snow or ice, and even that, very sparingly, never rock climbing and never on tires bigger than 30-31 inch. There are folks breaking Dana 60, chromoly axles, etc all the time, especially in performance offroading. But they don't have a choice all the time to take it easy due to time constraints.

Bfg ta ko/ko2 are not too good on ice, I have had them for years. Excellent on pavement wear and tear, good in dry offroad, so-so in mud, with ko2 being better than ko. It's probably the best offroad tire overall that is also forgiving on pavement roads and not too noisy.

Detroit lockers are maybe the most reliable out there and they don't cost a lot either. I'd use those without a doubt on a dedicated offroad vehicle.

Onboard air is not really a must unless you have air lockers and popping tires out a lot, which means some really serious offroad. I mainly do some "safari" offroad, camping, some ditch crossing, stuff like that. Anyways, the liberty isn't made to be a true offroad, not w/o some serious mods, like tjkj's.

I'd be interested to see how the fan experiment ends up mass-hole, I think if you'll be OK with the hayden you may be fine with an ffd fan also. Oh, I'd also try the stant 190F if I were you. You can set the controller to start the fan at 205F and stop at 190F. I believe that's the interval on the flexalite controller (or it's 20F?).

Regarding your ecoboost, did you take into consideration the full gear ratio, that includes transfer case, transmission and Diff gearing?

DTT's are designed and work best in front applications.I ran one in my KJ for a little over 3 years and loved it.It was 100% invisible besides the steering wheel "returning to center" faster then when it was still a open diff.Was great for snow and ice since it was a point and shoot when in 4wd.Offroad you could step on the brakes a little and "fool" the DTT to locking,actually helped keep the D30A from breaking.

My buddy ran a ARB in the D30A for years and never broke the diff and he was not easy on it offroad.

Oh and be aware that OX changes hands every few years and here in Colorado they are not favored at all,it's more Detroit lockers or ARB's for strength and known reliability.

Last thing who ever stated that a F150 was 6400lbs is far off,before the aluminum body the heaviest(crewcab,V8,4wd) was actually around 5700lbs stock.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:57 pm

Yeah, as for the locking action, it's tough to get the benefit in certain situations. For instance; when I charge up a not very step grade that has 8" of snow with ice underneath(my driveway), one tire slips, and I lose the needed momentum. Then I get on the brake to get both front tires to pull, but it's hopeless. My experience with auto lockers was much better, but you can't use them at speed on a slick road safely... I could see the same situation happening in mud, and maybe sand with the dtt, but if all you have are solid dry situations, I bet it's perfect. Just something for you guys that are shopping to chew on

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

[/quote]

Not hard footed but I have a lot of 5-7% grades I have to climb here in utah and where I have overheat issues is after a couple miles of this where the cooling system gets fully saturated. At first it will hold steady at 95C(HDS Model 01 T stat) but after 2-3 minutes of high load it starts to creep up. Part of it is the bigger tires and lift just causing more load than the average CRD.

I was assuming an electric fan would move more air at lower RPM too. That was why I tired out my current setup but I guess my fan just doesnt cut it.[/quote]

I believe this is why you bought your HDS Model 001. I would change out the thermostat for an 80C or similar. By the time your 95C thermostat opens it is to late to cool the engine with the loads you are putting on it.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:11 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

thermorex wrote:

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, I went and Google dtt:
http://www.eaton.com/RU/Eaton/ProductsS ... /index.htm

I may be wrong, but the helical gears in dtt will actually make the Diff fully locked once it properly engages, and unless the wheel spin stops, it will stay engaged. This is what I referred to as "don't like". This Diff should be similar in operation to a torsen Diff. And also this is the reason I would not want one installed in the front.

Regarding breaking the Diff, it's always easier to winch it than wrench it. So if you know your vehicle limits, you won't break anything. I'd use the front locker in a stock Dana 30a only on mud, snow or ice, and even that, very sparingly, never rock climbing and never on tires bigger than 30-31 inch. There are folks breaking Dana 60, chromoly axles, etc all the time, especially in performance offroading. But they don't have a choice all the time to take it easy due to time constraints.

Bfg ta ko/ko2 are not too good on ice, I have had them for years. Excellent on pavement wear and tear, good in dry offroad, so-so in mud, with ko2 being better than ko. It's probably the best offroad tire overall that is also forgiving on pavement roads and not too noisy.

Detroit lockers are maybe the most reliable out there and they don't cost a lot either. I'd use those without a doubt on a dedicated offroad vehicle.

Onboard air is not really a must unless you have air lockers and popping tires out a lot, which means some really serious offroad. I mainly do some "safari" offroad, camping, some ditch crossing, stuff like that. Anyways, the liberty isn't made to be a true offroad, not w/o some serious mods, like tjkj's.

I'd be interested to see how the fan experiment ends up mass-hole, I think if you'll be OK with the hayden you may be fine with an ffd fan also. Oh, I'd also try the stant 190F if I were you. You can set the controller to start the fan at 205F and stop at 190F. I believe that's the interval on the flexalite controller (or it's 20F?).

Regarding your ecoboost, did you take into consideration the full gear ratio, that includes transfer case, transmission and Diff gearing?

DTT's are designed and work best in front applications.I ran one in my KJ for a little over 3 years and loved it.It was 100% invisible besides the steering wheel "returning to center" faster then when it was still a open diff.Was great for snow and ice since it was a point and shoot when in 4wd.Offroad you could step on the brakes a little and "fool" the DTT to locking,actually helped keep the D30A from breaking.

My buddy ran a ARB in the D30A for years and never broke the diff and he was not easy on it offroad.

Oh and be aware that OX changes hands every few years and here in Colorado they are not favored at all,it's more Detroit lockers or ARB's for strength and known reliability.

Last thing who ever stated that a F150 was 6400lbs is far off,before the aluminum body the heaviest(crewcab,V8,4wd) was actually around 5700lbs stock.

Thats not true. That may have been the number on the Ford website for a no option supercrew, but mine is a fully loaded lariat supercrew 6.5' bed with a bunch of options and a 36 gallon gas tank. weights just shy of 6200 lbs, but probably close to 6400 lbs with the topper on the bed.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-ford-f-150-limited-ecoboost-v-6-test-review

6029 lbs and its not a long bed.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:07 pm

joelukex4 wrote:

Not hard footed but I have a lot of 5-7% grades I have to climb here in utah and where I have overheat issues is after a couple miles of this where the cooling system gets fully saturated. At first it will hold steady at 95C(HDS Model 01 T stat) but after 2-3 minutes of high load it starts to creep up. Part of it is the bigger tires and lift just causing more load than the average CRD.

I was assuming an electric fan would move more air at lower RPM too. That was why I tired out my current setup but I guess my fan just doesnt cut it.[/quote]

I believe this is why you bought your HDS Model 001. I would change out the thermostat for an 80C or similar. By the time your 95C thermostat opens it is to late to cool the engine with the loads you are putting on it.[/quote]

I've pulled many a long grade at altitude with several different CRD's, and since I changed to the HDS with a 203 stat, I have had the least heat problems. I think a cooler stat would help if the grades were short, but not when they are miles long. Gears on the other hand would dramatically reduce load. No AC on is also a must

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:36 pm

For long grade at altitude - you might want to go mechanical fan - with no clutch

i.e. Kap fixed fan mod

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51618

should keep maximum air flow

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:41 am

mass-hole wrote:

Thats not true. That may have been the number on the Ford website for a no option supercrew, but mine is a fully loaded lariat supercrew 6.5' bed with a bunch of options and a 36 gallon gas tank. weights just shy of 6200 lbs, but probably close to 6400 lbs with the topper on the bed.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-ford-f-150-limited-ecoboost-v-6-test-review

6029 lbs and its not a long bed.

Ford's official weights for a crew cab,long bed,4wd,and with V8 was 5700lbs before they switched to the aluminum body.No way is a crewcab,short bed V6 heavier.

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:00 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

mass-hole wrote:

Thats not true. That may have been the number on the Ford website for a no option supercrew, but mine is a fully loaded lariat supercrew 6.5' bed with a bunch of options and a 36 gallon gas tank. weights just shy of 6200 lbs, but probably close to 6400 lbs with the topper on the bed.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-ford-f-150-limited-ecoboost-v-6-test-review

6029 lbs and its not a long bed.

Ford's official weights for a crew cab,long bed,4wd,and with V8 was 5700lbs before they switched to the aluminum body.No way is a crewcab,short bed V6 heavier.

Mass-hole, you mean the gross vehicle weight or the net vehicle weight?

Pic below is from my desktop, while Google Ford F 150 gvwr:

I guess tj is correct, based of what I see. Gvwr for Ford, according to Google, is 6,010-7,050lbs while net weight is 4,051-5,238.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:27 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

mass-hole wrote:

Thats not true. That may have been the number on the Ford website for a no option supercrew, but mine is a fully loaded lariat supercrew 6.5' bed with a bunch of options and a 36 gallon gas tank. weights just shy of 6200 lbs, but probably close to 6400 lbs with the topper on the bed.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-ford-f-150-limited-ecoboost-v-6-test-review

6029 lbs and its not a long bed.

Ford's official weights for a crew cab,long bed,4wd,and with V8 was 5700lbs before they switched to the aluminum body.No way is a crewcab,short bed V6 heavier.

Ford's number is a no option XL trim truck. No running boards, a 26 gallon fuel tank, 17" wheels, no skid plates, lighter axles, no tow package, etc. All those options add up quickly. They arent like a jeep liberty where they may only vary 100 lbs between a no option and fully optioned 4x4. I also doubt that the 5.0 is much heavier than the ecoboost considering the turbos, intercooler and all the plumbing. In fact, I think the 5.0's generally have a slightly higher payload capacity for the same GVWR.

Again, Mine weighs just shy of 6200 lbs naked and with the topper is probably another 200 lbs. I know of folks who have weighed pre-alumium platinum trim supercrew long beds at ~6400 lbs. The F150 has been quite a bit heavier than the other 1/2's and the new "lightweight" aluminum F150s are now only slightly lighter than similarly optioned GM or Ram 1500.

thermorex wrote:

Mass-hole, you mean the gross vehicle weight or the net vehicle weight?

Pic below is from my desktop, while Google Ford F 150 gvwr:

I guess tj is correct, based of what I see. Gvwr for Ford, according to Google, is 6,010-7,050lbs while net weight is 4,051-5,238.

That picture is for a 2017. Mine is a 2014, pre-aluminum, truck. My truck has the max tow package and has a 7700 lb GVWR with a posted payload capacity on the door sticker of 1539 lbs. Ford's advertised weights are for no option trucks. The advertised weight would be for an XL Trim truck with the base engine. There are 2017 trucks out there that weigh 5500+ lbs despite the 5200 lb shown in the picture. Ford's "Builder's guide" gives you the base weight(5238 lbs) of the truck + the weight of the individual options which you add to the base weight. Things like running boards, 20" wheels, factory bed liner, moon roof, skid plates, 36 gallon gas tank, etc all get added on top of that 5238 lb base weight.

Its the same reason reason Ram claims a 1300 lb payload on the Ecodiesel crew cab but there are some Limited trim versions out there that only have a 900 lb payload.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:38 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

For long grade at altitude - you might want to go mechanical fan - with no clutch

i.e. Kap fixed fan mod

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51618

should keep maximum air flow

Thats a good call, I may do this in the summer. I bought the hayden clutch this summer and I honestly can tell if its any better than the stocker was.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:50 pm

mass-hole wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

mass-hole wrote:

Thats not true. That may have been the number on the Ford website for a no option supercrew, but mine is a fully loaded lariat supercrew 6.5' bed with a bunch of options and a 36 gallon gas tank. weights just shy of 6200 lbs, but probably close to 6400 lbs with the topper on the bed.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-ford-f-150-limited-ecoboost-v-6-test-review

6029 lbs and its not a long bed.

Ford's official weights for a crew cab,long bed,4wd,and with V8 was 5700lbs before they switched to the aluminum body.No way is a crewcab,short bed V6 heavier.

Ford's number is a no option XL trim truck. No running boards, a 26 gallon fuel tank, 17" wheels, no skid plates, lighter axles, no tow package, etc. All those options add up quickly. They arent like a jeep liberty where they may only vary 100 lbs between a no option and fully optioned 4x4. I also doubt that the 5.0 is much heavier than the ecoboost considering the turbos, intercooler and all the plumbing. In fact, I think the 5.0's generally have a slightly higher payload capacity for the same GVWR.

Again, Mine weighs just shy of 6200 lbs naked and with the topper is probably another 200 lbs. I know of folks who have weighed pre-alumium platinum trim supercrew long beds at ~6400 lbs. The F150 has been quite a bit heavier than the other 1/2's and the new "lightweight" aluminum F150s are now only slightly lighter than similarly optioned GM or Ram 1500.

thermorex wrote:

Mass-hole, you mean the gross vehicle weight or the net vehicle weight?

Pic below is from my desktop, while Google Ford F 150 gvwr:

I guess tj is correct, based of what I see. Gvwr for Ford, according to Google, is 6,010-7,050lbs while net weight is 4,051-5,238.

That picture is for a 2017. Mine is a 2014, pre-aluminum, truck. My truck has the max tow package and has a 7700 lb GVWR with a posted payload capacity on the door sticker of 1539 lbs. Ford's advertised weights are for no option trucks. The advertised weight would be for an XL Trim truck with the base engine. There are 2017 trucks out there that weigh 5500+ lbs despite the 5200 lb shown in the picture. Ford's "Builder's guide" gives you the base weight(5238 lbs) of the truck + the weight of the individual options which you add to the base weight. Things like running boards, 20" wheels, factory bed liner, moon roof, skid plates, 36 gallon gas tank, etc all get added on top of that 5238 lb base weight.

Its the same reason reason Ram claims a 1300 lb payload on the Ecodiesel crew cab but there are some Limited trim versions out there that only have a 900 lb payload.

Go weigh it,you'll be surprised.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:47 pm

OK so here is my new theory:

I think FFD may have purposefully built the shroud smaller than the radiator core to allow air flow at high speeds. I have been taking my electric fan/shroud on and off lately and what I have found is that the jeep actually cools better without the fan/shroud in place at high speeds. I think that the e-fan is not able to move air quickly enough at 60+ mph to support the natural flow through the radiator, and since the fan blade is only a 15" circle + the fan hub is 6.5" diameter, you really only have 143 in^2 to flow air through. And probably less than that since the blades may cause some restriction if they are not spinning fast enough. Thats on a 20"x20"(400 sq in) core minus the fins.

If you look at the OE shroud its basically a 20" hole with the fan sitting inside of it. The opening gets all the way to the edges of the radiator core so that only the corners of the core dont have a direct flow path out of the shroud.

I now think the most effective way to mount an e fan is to mount it directly to the core with no shroud or make a shroud with flaps that open under pressure, that way when you are at high speeds the radiator can basically flow its full surface area with little to no restriction and the fan can do its most effective work at lower speeds. FFD themselves told me that their fans are not going to help me at highway speeds and that they are most effective for slow speed travel with no natural air flow(off-roading, mudding, traffic jams)

These are what I am thinking:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/spu-ix-30130012?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-spal-automotive-usa&gclid=CjwKEAiAi-_FBRCZyPm_14CjoyASJAClUigOSrB-mW7j86PMVrJUZL9uxirdRG_ltq9fKBS8eZ9JohoCnpbw_wcB

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:17 pm

All that sounds reasonable, but I wonder if you could find a flex fan to fit as an experiment with no shroud. I know it flows less at high rpm, but with zero shroud it might be worth a shot. They are like working around large razorblades though...
What about a snorkele also? Any data out though to show if lowering the intake temp a little will help?

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:59 pm

Mountainman wrote:

All that sounds reasonable, but I wonder if you could find a flex fan to fit as an experiment with no shroud. I know it flows less at high rpm, but with zero shroud it might be worth a shot. They are like working around large razorblades though...
What about a snorkele also? Any data out though to show if lowering the intake temp a little will help?

I am thinking I may do a 19 or 20" fixed flex fan like was posted above for the summer.

The turbo is going to make the air like 350 degrees anyways at this altitude(3:1 pressure ratio). a couple degree difference in the intake air is gunna be a drop in the bucket so i dont know a snorkle would do much.

I think removing the A/C like you did is probably the best thing you could do for the cooling system. That seems to be the densest core and of course sits right in the front of the stack so even when the A/C isnt running its not exactly helping matters. The CAC is the least dense. The Radiator seems kinda dense but the coolant tubes are actually pretty flat and probably dont take up too much space.

running a half height(10-12"), thicker CAC may do wonders. Higher volume means the air charge will sit in it longer and cool over a larger amount of cooling air(If the CAC has 3x the volume of the stocker that means the resonance time will be 3x for the same flow). This means the cooling air coming out the back will be cooler as it enters the radiator and you will have a cooler IAT at the same time. That and the bottom half of the radiator will be open to unheated air.

FFD Jeep Liberty CRD Stage 4 Extreme

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