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 Post subject: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Ack! Wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. About last month out of nowhere when i put the keys in my jeep the engine wouldnt start. Would just keep trying to turn over but never get that kick to get it on. Thought this was odd it happened out of nowhere but then it finally turned on. It would do this every now and then and i never thought anything of it until it suddenly started dying while driving or stalling. I bled the head and pumped it up to find there was air in the line. I constantly was getting stranded on the side of the road having to bleed the line, and more and more it took longer and longer to get going again, until a few weeks ago i actually had to leave it spmewhere because i coulsnt get it going. We changed the fuel filter an searched the fuel line for anything leaking, and nothing helped. Finally brought it to a mechanic, who did a vaccum test on the fuel line and found low pressure delivery to the engine, with the inside fuel pump not working and the injector pulling the fuel on its own. He replaced the fuel pump and after a week of waiting and a good paychecks worth of spending for the mechanic, i finally got the liberty back, the motor being noticeably better sounding and all around felt much smoother. He added the battery was low but it is only a two year old battery and we guessed it probably was just strained from running dead trying to start it up on the side of the road. However, just this evening while turning onto my street, the engine died again, with air in the line again, and bleeding it over and over hasnt produced any result.

Im at wits end with my jeep and clueless where to go next, without much money at that. Ive lurked reading possiblities like crank sensors, brake and wheel censors, electronic errors, but dont know what to even do now, if anyone has any ideas itd be fantastic. Whatever the problem is it just seems to be getting worse, although somehow it ran fine for a weekends time (friday, saturday, sunday).


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:19 pm 
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What fuel pump did your mechanic replace?
The 05-06 liberty CRD did not have a fuel pump back in the fuel tank from the factory.
So unless the previous owner installed one...?

Check the fuel filter head for signs of fuel leaks.
Pull the two electrical connectors to see if either of them is wet with fuel.

If you have the in tank fuel pump, you can bleed the filter without the hand pump.
Just crack open the bleeder and turn the key on.
The pump should turn on and pump fuel up to the filter.
Close the bleeder when a solid stream of fuel comes out.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:39 pm 
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Quote:
with the inside fuel pump not working

Just as Flash said: What pump are you referring too, are you talking about a fuel pump inside the fuel tank? The Jeep liberty CRD's did not come from the factory OEM with a feed or lift pump in or outside the fuel tank!
Unless a previous owner had installed a lift pump of some sort.
So to help you properly diagnose your problem we need to know what pump your mechanic replaced!!! :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:52 pm 
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It was a pump inside the tank in a harness if that helps, the old one they pulled out was dirty and deteriorated, and the tank had to be drained to remove and replace it.


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:04 pm 
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If it was dirty and deteriorated there must have been some very bad fuel in that tank at one time or another!
Did they clean out the tank an blow out all the fuel lines to get rid of any contaminated fuel?
Also, did they change the fuel filter? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Yes! They cleaned the tank and bled it all through. The fuel filter that is on wasnt replaced but we had put on a week prior, so its not old at all.


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:15 am 
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Do you have a way to pull codes? If it wont start at all there could possibly be a code there. As flash said check around the fuel head itself for leaks.


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:32 pm 
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So were thinking the pump he replaced went bad already or wasnt properally put in, as we turned the key and nothing clicked or bled. Brought it back to mechanic to see whats going on.


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Drchannard wrote:
Yes! They cleaned the tank and bled it all through. The fuel filter that is on wasnt replaced but we had put on a week prior, so its not old at all.

That does not ensure that the filter did not get stopped up if it ran with the bad fuel in the tank.
I would replace the fuel filter to be sure...

A few have had a problem with the OEM fuel pump relay after installing an in-tank fuel pump. I would check it first and make sure it is energizing when you first turn the key on. It is in the power center under the hood and is clearly labeled. Put your finger on top of the relay while you have someone turn the key to the "ON" position, you should hear it click and also feel it engage. The pump should run for approx. 15 seconds or so when the key is switch to the "ON" position!

Even if the in-tank pump is not working, the CP3 will pull the fuel through the in-tank pump and suck it all the way to the CP3 injection pump provided you do not have any leaks that allow air to be sucked in and the fuel filter is not totally stopped up.
Have you tired to manually pump the fuel head up and see if it will start? If you cannot manually pump it up enough to get it to start, you have a major leak somewhere allowing air to be sucked into the system or a completely stopped up fuel filter... :(

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:38 pm 
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If your lift pump is working and getting good fuel to the filter head, the pump plunger will be hard to push. If it pumps easy you have air or the lift pump is not pumping. Suppose a plugged filter might be this way as well.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:06 pm 
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hmmm....

My first thought is the mechanic told you there was a bad pump, showed you one sitting around and charged you for one... and a bunch of labour. Sorry, but I don't know how a mechanic could even know there was a fuel pump on a CRD unless they REALLY were digging around and or the owner said "I have a aftermarket fuel pump" If a mechanic finds a fuel pump on a vehicle that doesn't actually come from the factory with one...the normal thing is a phone call to the owner saying "did you add the fuel pump? It's clogged"

Is the fuel head the new or old style?

If the old style, get a new style one put in. (imho many that got fuel pumps when having the old style fuel filter head would have been just as well served with the new style, of course I have not had any air in fuels issues to date with my 05..that I bought new. No fuel pump installed nor needed. I did get the new fuel filter head installed by a dealer for free without me even asking while getting a window regulator repaired under warranty. My old dealer mechanic had his own CRD and was pretty great... then he left the dealership and warranty ran out and it's my problem now)

See if that fixes the issue

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:17 pm 
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If you do indeed have an aftermarket in-tank fuel pump that went bad; I believe you will be the first on record on this forum reporting such a failure... :shock:
As I mentioned earlier, most issues reported have either been a problem with the fuel pump relay or a wiring issue, the pumps are pretty robust... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:29 pm 
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My guess.. dying in traffic and such is Crank Position sensor. Especially if it has never been replaced, its very old now.

Mine had this problem and it threw NO codes. I thought it was Air in fuel and such but it ended up not being that. Crank position sensor will work sometimes then get hot and just not work. Its right behind the downpipe coming off the turbo, looks like a fat chapstick and is held in with 1 bolt. You will have to remove heatshield and such to get to it though.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:18 am 
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The CPS (Crank Position Sensor) generally never give any DTC (trouble codes); they just put you on the side of the road!!! :roll:

CPS location:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:27 pm 
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Hmmmm.....I'm now having this stalling problem. Twice now as I was approaching a stop, more a less in coast mode covering the brake, it would just shut off, no codes. After sitting for a few minutes, it would fire back up and drive normally.

We've owned it since brand new. I'm mechanically inclined. I did have a fuel injector fault code trip a few months ago on number 1 but turned out to be grounded injector wiring. Taped them up and code and check-engine light went away.

So, by reading this and doing some poking around, look like I need to:
1. replace fuel filter ( i have the upgraded head and the pump feels hard)
2. check around fuel filter and leads for residual fuel
3. check fuel pump relay?
4. replace crank sensor?

Anything I'm missing for now?

Much thanks in advance. I promise to post my findings when this gets figured out. I hate it when people pose questions and people like you spend your time responding and helping then the poster doesn't return to report the fix.

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1982 300GD - WVO via Plantdrive
2006 LIB CRD - Burning Propel fuel
Mods (with a little sarcasm):
New Air flow control valve & New EGR valve,
New computer (took the dealer one full day),
and New window regulators all the way around...


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:24 pm 
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Was it when you started it cold and drove a few hundred feet?
If so, it is most likely the front pump assembly in the transmission. They are known for this type of behavior when some of the plungers and bores in the front pump assembly get worn out with age. The torque converter lockup kicks in and stalls the engine just like a straight shift transmission acts when coming to stop without depressing the clutch petal.
The solution is to replace the front pump assemble with the updated one and updated cover.
If you are going to replace the front pump assembly, it is also an excellent time to update the torque converter while you have the transmission out to replace the front pump assembly. :wink:

Image

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
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Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:05 am 
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stevegsmith wrote:
Hmmmm.....I'm now having this stalling problem. Twice now as I was approaching a stop, more a less in coast mode covering the brake, it would just shut off, no codes. After sitting for a few minutes, it would fire back up and drive normally.

We've owned it since brand new. I'm mechanically inclined. I did have a fuel injector fault code trip a few months ago on number 1 but turned out to be grounded injector wiring. Taped them up and code and check-engine light went away.

So, by reading this and doing some poking around, look like I need to:
1. replace fuel filter ( i have the upgraded head and the pump feels hard)
2. check around fuel filter and leads for residual fuel
3. check fuel pump relay?
4. replace crank sensor?

Anything I'm missing for now?

Much thanks in advance. I promise to post my findings when this gets figured out. I hate it when people pose questions and people like you spend your time responding and helping then the poster doesn't return to report the fix.


If it is doing this at any time after the first minute from startup.... It's likely the crank sensor, not the transmission pump / transmission drainback problem. Within the first minute after starting the engine the first time that day - that's the drainback problem, which is in the owner's manual as "not a problem" b/c it is just something that Chrysler transmissions do.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:08 am 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Was it when you started it cold and drove a few hundred feet?
If so, it is most likely the front pump assembly in the transmission. They are known for this type of behavior when some of the plungers and bores in the front pump assembly get worn out with age. The torque converter lockup kicks in and stalls the engine just like a straight shift transmission acts when coming to stop without depressing the clutch petal.
The solution is to replace the front pump assemble with the updated one and updated cover.
If you are going to replace the front pump assembly, it is also an excellent time to update the torque converter while you have the transmission out to replace the front pump assembly. :wink:

Image


I WISH that replacing the front pump solved this - it doesn't. It's even in the owner's manual as "normal" behavior of the Chrysler transmission, this delayed engagement or sometimes stalling is part of the drainback issue. I've replaced the front pump on my transmission and with a new converter from FTC.... It STILL does this randomly to me. The next time I drain the transmission for a change, I'm going to install the check valve on the cooler line. That seems to be the only confirmed fix.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:34 pm 
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Thank you both.

No, this doesn't happen shortly after starting but at least several minutes and a few miles later...minimum.

crank sensor looks to be the culprit...and cheapest start. I'll try there first.

Will report back.

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1982 300GD - WVO via Plantdrive
2006 LIB CRD - Burning Propel fuel
Mods (with a little sarcasm):
New Air flow control valve & New EGR valve,
New computer (took the dealer one full day),
and New window regulators all the way around...


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD keeps shutting off while driving!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:16 pm 
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geordi wrote:
I WISH that replacing the front pump solved this - it doesn't. It's even in the owner's manual as "normal" behavior of the Chrysler transmission, this delayed engagement or sometimes stalling is part of the drainback issue. I've replaced the front pump on my transmission and with a new converter from FTC.... It STILL does this randomly to me. The next time I drain the transmission for a change, I'm going to install the check valve on the cooler line. That seems to be the only confirmed fix.

That's very surprising; replacing the front pump assembly with the updated version did solve both stalling and drain back issues on my Jeep just as it did for some other owners on this forum who posted their results. It has never done it again after the install of upgraded parts. :wink:

BTW, I had already replaced the anti-drain back (flow-control) valve (Mopar PN 04799681) inside the transmission about a year before replacing the front pump assembly & torque converter and it DID NOT solve the stalling issue or the hesitation (drain back) issue when first starting off. :shock:
It is also been posted by some members on LOST that some of the cheaper brand transmission filters can cause the drain back (hesitation) issue.

Transmission Service Manual wrote:
Severe wear of the TC limit valve bore in the front pump housing results in loss of converter release oil pressure. Reduced release pressure at low speed and idle can drag the converter linings, causing engine surge, pulsation or stall.
The torque converter limit valve spring in the 45RFE, 545RFE front pump can often break. This valve limits converter release pressure. A broken spring can cause the valve to become stuck and result in converter clutch release issues including engine stalls at low speeds.
Chrysler vehicles equipped with 45RFE, 545RFE and 68RFE transmissions often experience TCC related troubles. These may or may not include trouble codes accompanied by TC clutch slip, no lockup, overheating and / or loss of fuel economy. In some cases, the TC clutches may be unable to release TC lockup, resulting in improper lockup functions and / or complete engine stalling.
Problems such as these can be caused by excess wear in the TCC switch valve bore, which allows vital control pressure to escape the circuit. Replacing the complete transmission oil pump assembly with a new updated assembly or reconditioning the bores with the proper tools and installing an oversized TCC switch valve kit can restore crucial clearances for renewed TCC control and operation.


From another LOST poster back in 2015:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=72451
amslube wrote:
I had the drainback issue about six months after I did the first transmission fluid/filter change. I read about the internal spin-on filter and the drainback issues associated with the anti-drainback valve. Well two filter changes later, one being with a new Mopar filter didn't change anything so I just lived with it for about a year or so. I finally decided to install the euro torque converter and at the same time replaced the front pump with the newer updated version pump. Luckily, I was able to find a brand new pump on Ebay for about half the cost as one from the dealer. Another note, when I inquired about pricing and availability from my local dealer, these pumps were on backorder. Sort of tells you they are in demand. I did the replacement of the torque converter and pump myself and it is now about a year and a half since the replacement and no drainback issues.

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