COOLANT IN TRANSMISSION

TKB4 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:29 am

I was hunting out of state when temp dropped to 3 degrees and below never above freezing for three days . Night before coming home moved jeep under cover to keep predicted snow off, no problems. Next morning ready to leave and transmission wouldn't engage at all. Tried all gears overdrive and 4wd. After engine running about 30 minutes it finally went into gear normally. This was after already called wife to come get me. I called her back and told her to be on standby,
When I started home I noticed a whirring sound and the trans would only take enough power to barely accelerate. I did manage to get to fifth gear and once locked up no noticeable abnormality.
I had just put a rebuilt semi taco brand torque converter in and i feared it was cause but didn't make much sense way it was acting cold etc.
Trans fluid level was ok. I just got around to pulling pan and there is coolant in fluid milky color. Coolant level is slightly low but appears normal though obviously most likely contaminated.
My conclusion is that the transmission cooler in radiator is cracked thus letting in coolant.
I also think I got a code at bottom of the speedometer something like type 42 or type 45 I didn't have my reading glasses on and code didn't stay on long.
Questions:
1. Anyone know what the code might have been (no codes read with standard obdII reader)?
2. Is it worth flushing fluid and or changing filters with at least temporary external trans cooler (already have one I could use) to see if torque converter is toast ( which i suspect it may be) ?
3. Has anyone had the trans cooler in radiator crack?
4. A friend of mine who used to run radiator shop said older ram trucks were known for getting the in radiator coolers obstructed and that if so pressure could have increased in cooler to cause crack . Has anyone had this occur to cause trans overheating?
5. I was thinking of removing return line at trans and putting in bucket and running some cheaper hydraulic fluid through to flush out moisture etc. then if it seemed to work at all refilling with new filters and atF 4 . Do you think this would be of any benefit? Is it worth a try?

Thanks

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:17 pm

With the 05-06 jeep liberty CRD, there is no trans cooler in the radiator.
The trans cooler is part of the lower portion of the AC condensor.

I have no idea how coolant would have gotten into the transmission.

Unless maybe you were driving through a flood and water got in through the breather?

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

That is not a code at the bottom of the gauge panel. I believe it states Type 42 but can't confirm as the CRD is at home. That is the type of gauge panel that is in the CRD. The code is always there if you look closely but when the sun is just right it looks illuminated. Don't worry about it as it is not an engine or tranny code.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:04 pm

joelukex4 wrote:

That is not a code at the bottom of the gauge panel. I believe it states Type 42 but can't confirm as the CRD is at home. That is the type of gauge panel that is in the CRD. The code is always there if you look closely but when the sun is just right it looks illuminated. Don't worry about it as it is not an engine or tranny code.

You are very correct on all accounts!!!

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:33 pm

Yeah the only way coolant could get into your trans is someone poured it in through the dipstick tube.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:03 pm

Thanks for replies. I don't know that its coolant in trans fluid but its definitely milky looking. For some reason I thought the trans cooler was in radiator, I guess because I saw the milky color and thats only source i could think of. Now I have no idea whee moisture came from. I have only driven in rain not through any deep water. If I knew how to post pic of fluid its obvious.
Still don't know if I should try flush with something like plain hydraulic fluid till clear then replace the atf4. Hopefully ac side doesn't leak. I also find it strange that there are absolutely no leaks on garage floor. Now I am wondering if one of kids added wrong transmission fluid and it wasn't compatible and that caused the change, but I doubt they would check the trans fluid at all knowing them much less add any.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:07 pm

Wrong fluid added came to my mind as well! Maybe a good idea to do a flush and change both filters and see what happens? :roll:

TKB4 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:15 pm

Well I guess mystery is solved. When my son had the vehicle at college a few months he checked all the fluids around thanksgiving and the trans fluid was at minimum and he added the only fluid he had not realizing there was a difference it was mercon product meant for emergency use in other vehicle. I took some ATF4 and mixed a few ounces with that fluid and it immediately got a lighter color after stirring then when let it sit an hour it layered out into some of the milky looking material.
Next step flushing and see if anything hurt. Guess I don't have any leak at all. Good if flush fixes it , still bad if it doesn't . Will give final report when completed.

Thanks

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:49 pm

Glad you figured it out.

Two things to be aware of: This transmission likes to be run with an excess of fluid, the system is HUGE so a few extra quarts will not hurt anything. If you were to somehow overfill the case completely, there is a breather tube and it would just puke out the excess until it found a happy place. But that would be gallons extra, so don't stress.

The other thing to know is that the dipstick is too long and hits the bottom of the pan and turns, so when it reads "full" on the stick, you are actually LOW. From the point where the stick says full, usually takes another 2 quarts to actually perform correctly.

Now, as far as doing a flush, unless you are doing it with a professional machine, the easiest way to do it is do several drain-and-fill cycles in a row. The professional machine may end up cheaper, b/c you want to use ATF+4 full synthetic, and that stuff isn't cheap. You will need like 18 quarts of it to do a good flush and ensure you got everything from the converter.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:46 pm

Overfilling a auto trans is worse then being a little low.Most of your trans issues with the CRD's maybe from overfilling since most are problems caused by overfilling.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:57 am

These transmissions are big and perform better with a little extra ATF+4 juice as many members on this forum have proved!
Many members have reported on this forum that after adding an extra 1/2 to 1 qt. fluid it has helped cue the no go issue at first start up when placed in gear and the dreaded stalling motor issue when first starting the engine and driving for a short distance. :roll:

I personally can attest to the fact that it helped my Jeep right after I first purchased it with both these issues!

I spoke with my good friend who owns and operates a local transmission repair shop, about why adding extra fluid helps with these issues and he explained that it helps cut down on foaming inside the transmission, which can cause issues. He also informed me that overfilling it slightly will not hurt anything and on a higher mileage vehicle it only helps... :wink:

But if you want to run your transmission low in fluid, do so, it is your transmission.....

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:56 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

These transmissions are big and perform better with a little extra ATF+4 juice as many members on this forum have proved!
Many members have reported on this forum that after adding an extra 1/2 to 1 qt. fluid it has helped cue the no go issue at first start up when placed in gear and the dreaded stalling motor issue when first starting the engine and driving for a short distance. :roll:

I personally can attest to the fact that it helped my Jeep right after I first purchased it with both these issues!

I spoke with my good friend who owns and operates a local transmission repair shop, about why adding extra fluid helps with these issues and he explained that it helps cut down on foaming inside the transmission, which can cause issues. He also informed me that overfilling it slightly will not hurt anything and on a higher mileage vehicle it only helps... :wink:

But if you want to run your transmission low in fluid, do so, it is your transmission.....

Overfilling causes aeration of the fluid.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:57 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

These transmissions are big and perform better with a little extra ATF+4 juice as many members on this forum have proved!
Many members have reported on this forum that after adding an extra 1/2 to 1 qt. fluid it has helped cue the no go issue at first start up when placed in gear and the dreaded stalling motor issue when first starting the engine and driving for a short distance. :roll:

I personally can attest to the fact that it helped my Jeep right after I first purchased it with both these issues!

I spoke with my good friend who owns and operates a local transmission repair shop, about why adding extra fluid helps with these issues and he explained that it helps cut down on foaming inside the transmission, which can cause issues. He also informed me that overfilling it slightly will not hurt anything and on a higher mileage vehicle it only helps... :wink:

But if you want to run your transmission low in fluid, do so, it is your transmission.....

Overfilling causes aeration of the fluid.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:17 pm

indicated exactly how? The important parts of the transmission are below the surface of the fluid, and there is more than enough turbulence in the torque converter to churn up any fluid level anyway. Obviously this is not an issue. More than a few people have reported that their transmissions run better and shift smoother with more fluid. I have personally monitored transmission temperatures with an external gauge that show lower temperatures with more fluid, so that indicates better heat transfer or less friction heating. But I have also directly observed smoother operation with extra fluid.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:03 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

Overfilling causes aeration of the fluid.

I for one don't buy it; Just how do you figure that? Any evidence or data to prove it would be great! Inquiring minds would like to know.... :shock:

Sergio del Castillo · **Posted:** Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:49 pm

Hi you all members,
I am offering a plain man explanation of this issue about aeration in the transmission fluid. First some known facts:
1.- The moving components of the transmission are not, repeat, are not immersed in the fluid, with the exception of the TC, but the planetary gears and clutches are not. They obtain their lubrication through fluid forced under pressure by passages.
2.- The moving parts create heat through friction. The fluid passing through them remove the heat. The cooler remove the heat from the fluid.
3.- The amount of heat created is constant under normal operation conditions, thus the amount of heat passed to the fluid is also constant. Is this constant heat is transmitted to a fixed volume of fluid, thus the fluid get to its operating temperature. If you increase the volume of fluid and the source of heat remains constant, the temperature reached in the fluid will be less.

So far so good.

4.- Now, if you increase the level of the fluid even more until it reaches the moving parts, planetary gears, etc..., these will cause the fluid to splash inside the cavity of the transmission. This splashed fluid will trap air trough their path causing aeration of the fluid. Thus, it is not a good idea to overfill the transmission fluid. The exception to this is the TC, as there is no air space inside it, and thus it can not splash fluid nor be overfilled.

Think of this as overfilling you engine oil until it reaches the bottom of the crankcase and connecting rods. You will never do that because will aerate the oil and you will loose oil pressure, thus lubrication, thus your engine.

Hope this helps
Sergio
2005 CRD SPORT, 191,000 miles since new (Feb 2005). Factory transmission replaced at 187,700 because a fault relay caused lack of pressure in the fluid, and thus faulty shifting during long city driving.(below 40 MPH).

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:39 pm

Sergio del Castillo wrote:

Hi you all members,
I am offering a plain man explanation of this issue about aeration in the transmission fluid. First some known facts:
1.- The moving components of the transmission are not, repeat, are not immersed in the fluid, with the exception of the TC, but the planetary gears and clutches are not. They obtain their lubrication through fluid forced under pressure by passages.
2.- The moving parts create heat through friction. The fluid passing through them remove the heat. The cooler remove the heat from the fluid.
3.- The amount of heat created is constant under normal operation conditions, thus the amount of heat passed to the fluid is also constant. Is this constant heat is transmitted to a fixed volume of fluid, thus the fluid get to its operating temperature. If you increase the volume of fluid and the source of heat remains constant, the temperature reached in the fluid will be less.

So far so good.

4.- Now, if you increase the level of the fluid even more until it reaches the moving parts, planetary gears, etc..., these will cause the fluid to splash inside the cavity of the transmission. This splashed fluid will trap air trough their path causing aeration of the fluid. Thus, it is not a good idea to overfill the transmission fluid. The exception to this is the TC, as there is no air space inside it, and thus it can not splash fluid nor be overfilled.

Think of this as overfilling you engine oil until it reaches the bottom of the crankcase and connecting rods. You will never do that because will aerate the oil and you will loose oil pressure, thus lubrication, thus your engine.

Hope this helps
Sergio
2005 CRD SPORT, 191,000 miles since new (Feb 2005). Factory transmission replaced at 187,700 because a fault relay caused lack of pressure in the fluid, and thus faulty shifting during long city driving.(below 40 MPH).

Everything you stated is correct; but you would have to add a whole lot more than 1/2-1 extra qt. to bring the level up high enough to get it into the rotating parts on this transmission!
All automatic transmissions foam to some degree or another, that is one of the reasons they have atmospheric vents on top of them and the liquid level in the bottom of the transmission actually helps dissipate the foam along with ATF fluids having anti-foaming agents in them as well...

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:48 pm

It seems pretty simple.
If you've overfilled your transmission by 1 qt and it operates better and has no symptoms of aeration...

...then it's not actually overfilled.

COOLANT IN TRANSMISSION

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