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fuel rail pressure solenoid
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86360		 Page 3 of 5
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
Ok the explaining text I somehow got the pointer mixed up regarding the Steel Retaining Ring relief, and the O-Ring relief. You guys probably already figure that out though.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
After studying the pictures carefully, everything makes sense to me except for one question! What is the hex wrench on the actual sensor itself for, just to hold it at a certain angle while you torque the threaded bushing into the end of the fuel rail???? :? :roll:
Otherwise, it seems to serve no other purpose....
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
Yeah you pretty much have it.. I put in a separate explanation just before the last pic post on the end of page 2 this thread
Author:  WWDiesel [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
GordnadoCRD wrote:
Ok the explaining text I somehow got the pointer mixed up regarding the Steel Retaining Ring relief, and the O-Ring relief. You guys probably already figure that out though.

Fixed it!
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
Thank you for all your help with this!

[edit] What happened to my old servo-valve pressure relief unit? Well since it's internal, I haven't been able to disassemble it to find out exactly. BUT something has happened to the rod or the guide, or the ball valve / seat, binding or sticking that is causing the pressure required to dislodge the ball from the seat to be WAAAY higher than it should be. -- as in 10-11 thousand psi at idle, rather than the normal 5k-ish. The FQS on the cp3 isn't able to compensate for this much difference.
Author:  flash7210 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
Excellent pictures and explanations.
Thanks for posting. :D
Author:  WWDiesel [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
GordnadoCRD wrote:
[edit] I think we're still missing a set, though. Sorry if you're still working on it.... :CAMPING:

the two additional pictures & text!

This is a closer picture of the hydraulic piston / rod.  It only needs to push the ball a small amount away from the seat to limit the pressure on the high end. Here you can see the limiter thing I referred to in past post, that establishes the limit of travel. I can 't measure it with what I have here (need go/no-go guage.  don't have it here) But from looking at it, I swear it can't be more than 2mm of travel.  Once this rod pushes the ball off the seat, the fuel travels around the rod, between it and the cap guide, past the valve, and into the low pressure discharge area.
Image

Another pic of the same thing, showing more of the crush face.  This is the old valve that was removed, so it shows the crush face that has been used.
Image
Author:  Mountainman [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
Hmm, I hadn't considered the fact that the crows foot adds a little leverage to the equation. After much searching I found a few side cut 30mm sockets specific for the task, but they were all in Europe, some were in large kits, and none of them had prices :furious:
I'm sure they would be too expensive to import anyhow. If we could find one inconus that might be reasonable, but carefully cutting one from a very deep 30mm might be worth a try. When I need one, I might give it a shot. I would be cutting it with a die grinder and dremel, so it would suck, and I'm not sure how successful I'd be?
Author:  Mountainman [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
http://dieselland.eu/DL-CR-TOOL-KIT-Too ... injectors/

I forgot the link
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
the torque sleeve is a smaller diameter than the body it would have to go past, so a socket won't work.

What I was planning to do was take a piece of 1/4" x 2" x 16" steel bar stock, Heating it and bending it around a piece of 4" pipe, so the ends are parallel, and trimming any parallel access off. then one end would have a 30mm socket cut into it, and the other would be drilled at the same center axis, and a broken 1/2" to 3/8 stepdown drive welded there, so wrench torque would equal actual torque. It wouldn't have to be anything super hard since the most torque it would need to hold is 59 ft lbs.

Now, with this tool, all I have to do is measure the distance from the center of the square drive to the center of the valve axis. and do a bit of math.

(for example)
Given, that a torque value in ft/lbs is lbs of force applied at 12" from the rotating axis, applied 90 degrees to movement, no matter the size of the torque wrench.

IF the distance from the center of the tool drive is (for example)2" you would add the 2" to the 12" that the wrench is designed for, and divide (12/14) as correction factor.
And the torque value needed is 44 ft lbs
Then you would multiply 44 x (12 / 14) = 37.7 ft lbs for the wrench setting. I would just round up to 38.

As much as I hated algebraic story problems 4 decades ago, they have been really freakin handy in life.
Author:  Mountainman [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
[quote="GordnadoCRD"]the torque sleeve is a smaller diameter than the body it would have to go past, so a socket won't work.

What I was planning to do was take a piece of 1/4" x 2" x 16" steel bar stock, Heating it and bending it around a piece of 4" pipe, so the ends are parallel, and trimming any parallel access off. then one end would have a 30mm socket cut into it, and the other would be drilled at the same center axis, and a broken 1/2" to 3/8 stepdown drive welded there, so wrench torque would equal actual torque. It wouldn't have to be anything super hard since the most torque it would need to hold is 59 ft lbs.

Now, with this tool, all I have to do is measure the distance from the center of the square drive to the center of the valve axis. and do a bit of math.

(for example)
Given, that a torque value in ft/lbs is lbs of force applied at 12" from the rotating axis, applied 90 degrees to movement, no matter the size of the torque wrench.

IF the distance from the center of the tool drive is (fmy example)2" you would add the 2" to the 12" that the wrench is designed for, and divide (12/14) as correction factor.
And the torque value needed is 44 ft lbs
Then you would multiply 44 x (12 / 14) = 37.7 ft lbs for the wrench setting. I would just round up to 38.

As much as I hated algebraic story problems 4 decades ago, they have been really freakin handy in life.[/
quote]

I think that tool is slotted such to be wider in the center and 30mm at the end, and be specific to this application, but either way, a $6 crows foot (plus shipping) and your fine math is much better! I'd like to see if the local Bosch place can get it just for kicks.
Heck, what does the manual call for? I might have the tool in my factory set lol
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
I went to the biggest parts place in this area who usually carries pretty much any special tool, and this piece is current technology in GM LML series 6.6L Duramax diesel.

Even their gm catalog listed no special tool for it. There were 3 guys digging through catalogs for a half hour and every one came up empty.
Author:  WolverineFW [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
Mountainman wrote:
Hmm, I hadn't considered the fact that the crows foot adds a little leverage to the equation. After much searching I found a few side cut 30mm sockets specific for the task, but they were all in Europe, some were in large kits, and none of them had prices :furious:
I'm sure they would be too expensive to import anyhow. If we could find one inconus that might be reasonable, but carefully cutting one from a very deep 30mm might be worth a try. When I need one, I might give it a shot. I would be cutting it with a die grinder and dremel, so it would suck, and I'm not sure how successful I'd be?

Did you look on Snap On tools website?

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
No I checked with the local dealer and all he could do was order the same thing for a lot more. Stuff he had only went to 7/8", and costs way more. This tool will do the trick. If you look at the fuel rail pics, you will see there is a turned down section where it threads into. It's about 3/4" back, so when it's in position to be torqued you can actually get a true crow's foot wrench on. But a simple open ended wrench took it off with no stress or damage, so it should be fine to torque it.
Author:  Mountainman [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
GordnadoCRD wrote:
I went to the biggest parts place in this area who usually carries pretty much any special tool, and this piece is current technology in GM LML series 6.6L Duramax diesel.

Even their gm catalog listed no special tool for it. There were 3 guys digging through catalogs for a half hour and every one came up empty.


I won't be back at my computer for days, but doesn't the manual specify a special tool?
Author:  joe_ [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
No special tool mentioned, at least not in the 2005 service manual. They just instruct you to loosen/tighten the nut, but don't mention any particular type of tool.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
Same with the 06 manual
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
I talked to "Hands On Tools" http://www.handsontools.com/
They could not find a tool listed either and they list most all Miller tools for Dodge, GM, and Ford. :shock:

They suggested to contact:
Mopar Essential Tools and Service Equipment
Hours of Operation: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM Central
Email: Moparsupport@snapon.com
Phone: 1-855-298-2687
Fax: 1-855-303-8985
https://www.moparessentialtools.com/index.aspx

Mopar Tool and Equipment Program
c/o Snap-on Business Solutions
2801-80Th Street
Kenosha, WI 53143
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
This may be the correct wrench, but it does not list the size.
Contact them (1-855-298-2687) to be sure it is the correct tool

Miller / Mopar Tools VM.10491
Image
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
I already ordered the one MM found. Was expecting it by tomorrow but I haven't gotten any tracking #.

Called them just a few minutes ago and they said they were out, and it was on order, but they moved mine to drop ship from the Mfg. Won't be here for a week. :grim: :banghead:

ALSO Since curiousity and boredom make such a bad combination, I got a die grinder with a cutter wheel and disected the front crimpy cappy thingy by cutting the crimp sleeve to open the valve up. and found out I WAS WRONG in one aspect of the valve.

THERE IS A TAPERED SEAT INVOVED, BUT T[b]HERE IS NO BALL. I was misled by illustrations in the FSM. The function of other components is also somewhat different.
[/b]
I will show more of what I found once I get camera access again.
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