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 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:25 pm 
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So is it 27mm or 30mm?
Looks like the crowfoot tool in the kit is 27mm....
which item in tool kit fits the fuel solenoid? :roll:

_________________
2005 Jeep LibertyCRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stage4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit & Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast&Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic. Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat,
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan / Hayden HD clutch
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:31 pm 
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http://www.freedomracing.com/vm-10491a- ... 10491.html

You were able to find the specs on the length for the torque correction? It looks to me to be about 6" long

_________________
05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,OME lift,GDE engine&trans tune,Truetrac front dif,FFD fan,ARP's, new head,rockers, cams, lift pump,Sasquatch grid heater, trans pump, turbo, Hemi TC,fuel head,welded EGR port, Samcos, muffler delete, RL cargo shelf, steel roof rails
Mech fan, VH & AC delete (4 pulleys removed), tensioner relocated
-CRD's being restored


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 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:34 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
So is it 27mm or 30mm?
Looks like the crowfoot tool in the kit is 27mm....
which item in tool kit fits the fuel solenoid? :roll:


I'm not where I can measure it, but I think I'll just cut a 1/2" square in one of my extra 27 out 30mm wrenches at the proper length. I wish I had the wrench to measure

_________________
05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,OME lift,GDE engine&trans tune,Truetrac front dif,FFD fan,ARP's, new head,rockers, cams, lift pump,Sasquatch grid heater, trans pump, turbo, Hemi TC,fuel head,welded EGR port, Samcos, muffler delete, RL cargo shelf, steel roof rails
Mech fan, VH & AC delete (4 pulleys removed), tensioner relocated
-CRD's being restored


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 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:32 pm 
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I don't know that last one WWDiesel. I DO know that it is for sure 30MM, and that a 1 3/16" standard will work.

I finally got my photobucket acct to upload!!

Now On to correcting my flub.

Once I got the end cap dissected, I realized my mistake. I was explaining the function based on the following diagram in the FSM, and from their description of operation. What they show may have been the case in years past, but the design in this pressure servo is significantly different.
Image

The most glaring difference is, THERE IS NO BALL!!! The tapered seat is there as shown, but no ball.
The second mistake I made is in regards to this next picture.

Image

that pintle is not a moving part, and the bell shaped thingy is not a limiter. This is where that diagram is correct. There is super fine drilled passage from the center of the tapered seat through the center of the pintle to the area covered by this bell thingy. The bell thingy is, well I'm not yet sure why it's there, but when I blew through the hole, the water drop i put in the seat came out from inside the bell. The hole is probably smaller than the smallest sewing needle I've ever seen. What the bell thingy would do, and why, I don't know, but it would cause the high pressure fuel to change direction through two 180 degree U turns before going through the drilled center of the pintle, and opening the valve. It is also crimped onto that shaft so tight, everything I've found small enough to fit behind it isn't strong enough to move it.

Here is the tip assembly removed by cutting around the crimp shell

Image

This image is of the v-cup seat and the tiny tiny hole drilled in the center that the high pressure fuel comes through to push the valve off the seat, and escape under low pressure back to the tank.

Image

And one more with a bit of angle to confirm why it failed. (well 50% of why it failed)

Image

I'm gonna skip ahead for just a bit.
The question: If there's no ball to seal to the valve seat, what does?
The answer: Well that's this little bastage right here.
Image

It's the tapered point of a rod that goes all the way through the discharge fuel chamber, back into the electromagnet area.
I tried to show here how the tip of this is eroded both on the outside diameter, and the center of the tip where the fuel come through center the V-seat.

Image

This might show it better.

Image

Now that I've shown you how I was wrong, here is what I believe the evidence is showing me.

I will assume that y'all know about waterjet cutting. 30k+psi water with a bit of garnet or some other abrasive powder can cut right through hard steel with ease.

This valve isn't an on/off thing or an occasional safety valve use. It's constantly in motion as well as the FQS, each having many hundreds of adjustments per second to achieve and maintain the precise pressure the ECM calls for.
Basically, it's steel-on-steel chattering for 147K miles in this case.

Now about the hydra cutting thing. Normal operation, I would guess this thing has a tiny jet of fuel at 10-25ish K psi depending on if you have a tune, etc.
This jet is spraying directly on the center of the point of the tapered valve needle. This fuel is pretty well loaded with abrasive particles of 5-15 microns. Not nearly as intense as the water cutters, but it's accomplishing the same thing just much more slowly. If you look at the picture of the needle tip you can see a perfect half round erosion from where the diesel jet hits it.
After hitting the center of the needle, as the fuel pushes the needle away from the seat the fuel / abrasive compound shoots to the sides, and around the outer edge of the needle, passing between both the surface of the valve, and the v-seat, which causes them to also erode on the edges of the valve needle. and the seat exactly where it contacts.
(the camera couldn't show this, but under a jewelers loupe you can see that over time, both the seat and the needle corner are abraded away. This requires the needle to proceed further and further into the V-Seat in order to do it's job.
The further into the V it travels, the smaller the effective area the fuel has to push the needle back, requiring higher and higher pressure.
Now it's gotten to the point that the FQS can't compensate. If it tries to shut back any more, there won't be enough fuel to keep the cp3 pump cooled and lubed.

I know it's taken nearly 150K miles for this to fail but I believe that If it had a decent fuel filtration system as some have applied to their own CRD's that this would not have failed yet.
It's perfectly good evidence to support a better fuel filter mod.
And I think a plug here for Marvel Mystery Oil or some other form of fuel lubrication enhancement would also be in order.

[Random edit] I think my bro just got a cat. I was sitting here tying this up and taking pics, had the shop door open. Some cat just wandered through the door, starting meowing and roaming about the shop. Next thing I knew it jumped onto my lap, then my shoulder, and camped there for about 15 minutes. No collar, nothing. never seen it before.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


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 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:47 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
It's perfectly good evidence to support a better fuel filter mod.
And I think a plug here for Marvel Mystery Oil or some other form of fuel lubrication enhancement would also be in order.

The very reasons I have a 2 micron secondary fuel filter installed and use MMO mixed with 2 cycle oil in every fill up!!! :wink:

_________________
2005 Jeep LibertyCRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stage4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit & Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast&Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic. Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat,
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan / Hayden HD clutch
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:17 pm 
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After a day and a half working on piddly maintenance checks and stuff, and no actual date of the expected crowfoot open end tool, I got another idea (and tired of waiting). So got a ride to the nearest Harbor Freight outlet, and splurged on a full set of metric combination wrenches, and a cheap torque wrench, (as the Snap-On one I would normally use was loaned out.) Plus a 39/64 drill bit.

Then measured precisely 6" from the center axis of the valve when in the wrench jaws, to the point in the handle, drilled a guide hole, then a (not clear through) recess in the handle, and pressed in the remainders of a broken off 3/8 to 1/4 drive adapter. (.007" press-fit.

It might have worked like that, but I thought I'd better have the added security of a bit of welding. I hope you excuse the poopy welding, but it didn't need much.

Here is the result:

Image
Image

So, Ft/lbs spec x 12 = inch lbs. spec
inch lbs spec / 18 = inch lbs reading for torque wrench (inch lbs scale)
EASY!

Not Pretty, but it works, and the wrench isn't heated and bent into a U, so it's still more or less usable

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:21 pm 
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GOOD NEWS!!!!

My lil redneck wrench mod worked perfectly!! (as far as I know :ROTFL: )

[edit] the reason I decided to go with the 3/8 drive rather than the 1/2" (both were available) Is that the torque values would fall well outside the range of accurate setting of a 1/2" drive torque wrench.

lbs-ft setting values for this tool would be 29 and 39 respectively. 1/2" drive wrenches typically start in the 50 range.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:44 am 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
GOOD NEWS!!!!My lil redneck wrench mod worked perfectly!! (as far as I know :ROTFL: )

Just curious, why not just go with a simple 3/8 drive crowfoot? :idea:
Does the very small offset calculation for the correct torque wrench setting get too complicated? :roll:
1-3/16 = 30mm

Like this one:
> https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/04567491
Image

_________________
2005 Jeep LibertyCRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stage4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit & Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast&Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic. Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat,
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan / Hayden HD clutch
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


Top
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 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Not complicated, and I did order one.

I checked with the local Snap-on rep, the Mac rep, and the Cornwell rep.
Nobody had a 30MM OR 1 3/16" crowfoot in stock
The problem was, when I ordered the crowfoot that MM found, they back-ordered it from the factory, and said it would be at least a week, and no actual expected ship date.
I'm just way too impatient for that B.S. and went with what I had available NOW.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:57 pm
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So if you use the factory VM tool there would still be a torque correction? It doesn't make sense to me that they would put torque specs in the manual that need adjusted :dizzy:

_________________
05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,OME lift,GDE engine&trans tune,Truetrac front dif,FFD fan,ARP's, new head,rockers, cams, lift pump,Sasquatch grid heater, trans pump, turbo, Hemi TC,fuel head,welded EGR port, Samcos, muffler delete, RL cargo shelf, steel roof rails
Mech fan, VH & AC delete (4 pulleys removed), tensioner relocated
-CRD's being restored


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 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:37 pm 
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If this is the factory tool

Image

Then Yes, a correction is needed. However I"m willing to bet since that tool is a single-purpose item, it probably comes with documentation listing the proper settings.

I find it weird that there is nothing in the FSM that mentions that tool or part# anywhere.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:43 pm 
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Hmm, can't see your image, but is it the VM 10491?

_________________
05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,OME lift,GDE engine&trans tune,Truetrac front dif,FFD fan,ARP's, new head,rockers, cams, lift pump,Sasquatch grid heater, trans pump, turbo, Hemi TC,fuel head,welded EGR port, Samcos, muffler delete, RL cargo shelf, steel roof rails
Mech fan, VH & AC delete (4 pulleys removed), tensioner relocated
-CRD's being restored


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:55 pm 
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Yes

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:38 pm 
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I offered the guy on eBay $35 shipped and he said yes. Let me know if you want a measurement or to borrow it. He marked it as shipped so it should be here soon. Hopefully it has a torque chart like you mentioned.

_________________
05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,OME lift,GDE engine&trans tune,Truetrac front dif,FFD fan,ARP's, new head,rockers, cams, lift pump,Sasquatch grid heater, trans pump, turbo, Hemi TC,fuel head,welded EGR port, Samcos, muffler delete, RL cargo shelf, steel roof rails
Mech fan, VH & AC delete (4 pulleys removed), tensioner relocated
-CRD's being restored


Top
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 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:41 pm 
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It's already on, torqued, and going back together.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:00 am 
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No torque chart, so I'll just be following your lead when I use it :JEEPIN:

_________________
05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,OME lift,GDE engine&trans tune,Truetrac front dif,FFD fan,ARP's, new head,rockers, cams, lift pump,Sasquatch grid heater, trans pump, turbo, Hemi TC,fuel head,welded EGR port, Samcos, muffler delete, RL cargo shelf, steel roof rails
Mech fan, VH & AC delete (4 pulleys removed), tensioner relocated
-CRD's being restored


Top
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 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 1120
Location: N. Muddle Oregon Coast
GOOD NEWS!!!

The $90 Duramax FPCV on the rail works perfectly. Absolutely flawless

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
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WWDiesel wrote:
GordnadoCRD wrote:
GOOD NEWS!!!!My lil redneck wrench mod worked perfectly!! (as far as I know :ROTFL: )

Just curious, why not just go with a simple 3/8 drive crowfoot? :idea:
Does the very small offset calculation for the correct torque wrench setting get too complicated? :roll:
1-3/16 = 30mm

Like this one:
> https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/04567491
Image


GordnadoCRD wrote:
Not complicated, and I did order one.

I checked with the local Snap-on rep, the Mac rep, and the Cornwell rep.
Nobody had a 30MM OR 1 3/16" crowfoot in stock
The problem was, when I ordered the crowfoot that MM found, they back-ordered it from the factory, and said it would be at least a week, and no actual expected ship date.
I'm just way too impatient for that B.S. and went with what I had available NOW.

:ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL:
Guess what special tool just arrived today!!!!!!!!!!
ONLY 2 months late :!: WHAT SERVICE!!!!!!!!!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:26 pm
Posts: 5
Are you still happy with the Duramax solenoid? I need to order a solenoid for my 2005. The price for the GM 12611872 has gone up to $103 on ebay. Thanks for your efforts!


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 Post subject: Re: fuel rail pressure solenoid
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Location: N. Muddle Oregon Coast
It is still working perfectly as far as I can tell.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


Top
 Profile  
 
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