Is there a good thermostat solution?

wilco549 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:09 pm

I've been using the kapalczynski DIY mod viewtopic.php?f=98&t=50940 for over a year.....No glue or welding and relatively inexpensive. I machined the spacers myself but any local machine shop should be able to do it in a couple hours + minimal material cost.

95Z28A4 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 am **Posts:** 297

olypopper wrote:

Science and Energy wrote:

Ug, a bad thermostat or a wonderful one that costs a wonderful amount of money. Neither is a savory prospect.

Get over it being expensive. After all the mods I've done on my Jeep (lots) the HDS has been the best. Steady temps and fantastic HEAT!!!

I feel the same way. Nothing about these CRDs are inexpensive. I installed an HDS 001 thermostat in my wife's CRD. The OEM stat began to malfunction at 60k miles and completely failed open by 80k miles. I installed the HDS because I wanted to fix it right the first time. This CRD is my wife's daily driver. She drives more than 2000 miles/month. The CRD has to be reliable and it is. The $500 t-stat is only about 10% of the money I have spent to make this Jeep as reliable as it can be. Yeah $500 for a t-stat is hard to swallow, but for the reliability and piece of mind, I'd spend it again.

Let me add.....I own a small lathe and can machine Sarge's spacers myself. If the CRD was mine and not my wife's, I probably would have experimented with the factory t-stat housing.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

I just found a cheap 188 version of our thermostats from Summit for 87 bucks. Not cheap but not bad.

I will keep looking for a hotter one.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cwa-5142601aa

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:00 am

Did you happen to notice that the reason it's cheap is the Brand is Crown Automotive. Crown thermostats are so bad that idParts won't stock them anymore.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

WHAT?

I thought I just found a good 188 thermostat solution. How bad is their reputation? It has one good review on Summit. Amazon is 4/5 stars and the complaints say seal the nipple threads and don't break them off. I think I can account for those concerns.

Part number is 5142601AA

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

http://www.morris4x4center.com/mopar-th ... aQod0NcBtQ

Says they have a Mopar version. I will ask what the temp is since the listing doesn't say.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:34 am

Crown = crap

Definitely go with the Mopar unit.
They are all the same and open at about 176F or so. Not sure how Summit came up with that 188 number.

A good Mopar unit, even at 176F, is better than any failed factory unit.
But for me, running too cool is not something I worry about.

highironcrd · **Joined:** Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:52 pm **Posts:** 133

mass-hole wrote:

Dont do an inline. Either get an OE replacement or get an HDS.

one of our distrusted mechanics told me he replaced my thermostat, but he just added an inline,..I did invest in one Jeff Bauers out of Alberta Canada, and very excited for its prospects,..if you inquire about it i think you may be impressed as well ,,he has wobasto heaters at a very good price,..

highironcrd · **Joined:** Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:52 pm **Posts:** 133

95Z28A4 wrote:

olypopper wrote:

Science and Energy wrote:

Ug, a bad thermostat or a wonderful one that costs a wonderful amount of money. Neither is a savory prospect.

Get over it being expensive. After all the mods I've done on my Jeep (lots) the HDS has been the best. Steady temps and fantastic HEAT!!!

I feel the same way. Nothing about these CRDs are inexpensive. I installed an HDS 001 thermostat in my wife's CRD. The OEM stat began to malfunction at 60k miles and completely failed open by 80k miles. I installed the HDS because I wanted to fix it right the first time. This CRD is my wife's daily driver. She drives more than 2000 miles/month. The CRD has to be reliable and it is. The $500 t-stat is only about 10% of the money I have spent to make this Jeep as reliable as it can be. Yeah $500 for a t-stat is hard to swallow, but for the reliability and piece of mind, I'd spend it again.

Let me add.....I own a small lathe and can machine Sarge's spacers myself. If the CRD was mine and not my wife's, I probably would have experimented with the factory t-stat housing.

i got 1 From Jeff in Alberta Canada,yes its pricey but its better than the inline piece of crap a distrusted mechanic put in,.and always remember "the quality is long remembered,after the price is long forgot"

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK · **Joined:** Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm **Posts:** 1167

Crown thermostats are so bad, some LOSTJEEPS members have reported the housings split at the seams.

Science & Energy, I am absolutely certain you will be happier in the long run with getting a H.D.S. Model 001. The Liberty CRD does not respond well to half-assed solutions. Here is where I diverge opinions with flash7210. Running any internal combustion engine is bad for it in the long run. Running a diesel too cool is even worse.

It also appears that you have the luxury of waiting a little to purchase a thermostat, seeing as you currently have other issues that are much more important to deal with.

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

NapaBavarian wrote:

dh100m wrote:

I have been using my own modified housing with original parts for 2 years on 2 crd s with 195 stant with absolutely no problems if interested pm me for info posted this before but somehow got lost??
regards tony

The welds could fail

Ya know, welding isn't very strong, after all a welded hitch can only support the weight of an 80,000 # semi trailer, or 130psi home air compressor.

The modified thermostat under a few psi could easily blow apart and the forces would easily push it into orbit, you'd better have friends on the space station if you want it back.

[I feel the need to point out this was a sarcastic post in an attempt to point out the strength of this solution, a proper weld won't fail]

You obviously don't know much about welding......

A proper weld won't fail...... when welding proper material, when you talk about cast aluminium its a different story !

It's hard to know the exact alloy they have used , it can be porrous , brittle, can have cracks in it or contaminants.

It can be a real challenge to weld !!!

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK · **Joined:** Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm **Posts:** 1167

NapaBavarian wrote:

dh100m wrote:

I have been using my own modified housing with original parts for 2 years on 2 crd s with 195 stant with absolutely no problems if interested pm me for info posted this before but somehow got lost??
regards tony

The welds could fail

Ya know, welding isn't very strong, after all a welded hitch can only support the weight of an 80,000 # semi trailer, or 130psi home air compressor.

The modified thermostat under a few psi could easily blow apart and the forces would easily push it into orbit, you'd better have friends on the space station if you want it back.

[I feel the need to point out this was a sarcastic post in an attempt to point out the strength of this solution, a proper weld won't fail]

NapaBavarian:

PZKW108 is a journeyman Red Seal professional welder and has the credentials to know what he is talking about. I have seen his work myself, and it is top notch. He has worked with both ferrous and non-ferrous metals; also on stainless steel... you name it, he has done it.

What are your credentials to legitimize your above comments?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:55 pm

Welds can and do fail occasionally, but if it is done properly normally the metal around the weld will fail before an actual weld will turn loose!!! :roll:

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK · **Joined:** Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm **Posts:** 1167

WWDiesel wrote:

Welds can and do fail occasionally, but if it is done properly normally the metal around the weld will fail before an actual weld will turn loose!!! :roll:

Quite true. However, getting the weld done properly, especially with two dissimilar alloys of aluminum, is quite tricky. Not a good recipe for what is essentially a pressure vessel that goes through thousands of pressure cycles and temperature cycles, all while sitting on a vibrating engine.

Are we dealing with a lot of pressure? No, of course not. But there is pressure nonetheless, and cooling systems NEVER fail at a convenient time.

This is just one of the reasons why I was not going to try any welding on that cheap O.E. cast aluminum housing in an attempt to modify it. I do not want my product to be what is responsible for some CRD owner's cooling system failure.

CRD owners who want to rectify their cold running engine problem should look hard at the choices available to them. Do they want an upgrade product that was developed with careful and insightful research, using top quality materials and manufacturing techniques that will NEVER fail them, no matter what the driving conditions? Or, do they want something cobbled together by some guy who is from the "Hold My Beer, I Am Going To Try Something" School of Engineering?

I do not begrudge those who have their own machining tools from trying what they can on their own to make a better part. After all, that is how great ideas start. But please, do not insult my intelligence, and those of us on this forum who know better, by posting on threads that your modified O.E. thermostat is "as good" as a Model 001. It simply is not.

A modified O.E. thermostat will NEVER be as strong as a Model 001. It will NEVER offer the accessory ports that a Model 001 has. And, most importantly, it will NEVER flow as much coolant as a Model 001, which is a desired feature of any thermostat assembly for safely raising the operating temperature of any internal combustion engine.

Firearms owners universally praise high quality firearms, especially those firearms that have incredible build strength. This is why rifles like the single shot, falling block Ruger #1 Rifle has such retained value even on the used market. You simply can not beat the immense strength of the falling block action, and ammunition reloaders can rely on running their hottest reloads through it with no worries whatsoever.

The same principle applies with the Model 001. You can use it with ANY level of tune and performance build CRD engine. It will flow the coolant you require under the heaviest cooling system demands, meaning you can use it in your CRD to tow your trailer in Death Valley during the summer... just as long as the rest of your cooling system is in good shape.

wilco549 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:27 pm

Jeff, We all know that you make a great product but there are options for those not willing to spend the money that you are demanding for your unit. Your constant nagging sales routine has become nauseating to some of us.

By the way, I'm a professional engineer, non-drinker (well, very little anyway) and take offense at you comment "cobbled together by some guy who is from the "Hold My Beer, I Am Going To Try Something" School of Engineering?"

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

Welds can and do fail occasionally, but if it is done properly normally the metal around the weld will fail before an actual weld will turn loose!!! :roll:

Quite true. However, getting the weld done properly, especially with two dissimilar alloys of aluminum, is quite tricky. Not a good recipe for what is essentially a pressure vessel that goes through thousands of pressure cycles and temperature cycles, all while sitting on a vibrating engine.

Are we dealing with a lot of pressure? No, of course not. But there is pressure nonetheless, and cooling systems NEVER fail at a convenient time.

This is just one of the reasons why I was not going to try any welding on that cheap O.E. cast aluminum housing in an attempt to modify it. I do not want my product to be what is responsible for some CRD owner's cooling system failure.

CRD owners who want to rectify their cold running engine problem should look hard at the choices available to them. Do they want an upgrade product that was developed with careful and insightful research, using top quality materials and manufacturing techniques that will NEVER fail them, no matter what the driving conditions? Or, do they want something cobbled together by some guy who is from the "Hold My Beer, I Am Going To Try Something" School of Engineering?

I do not begrudge those who have their own machining tools from trying what they can on their own to make a better part. After all, that is how great ideas start. But please, do not insult my intelligence, and those of us on this forum who know better, by posting on threads that your modified O.E. thermostat is "as good" as a Model 001. It simply is not.

A modified O.E. thermostat will NEVER be as strong as a Model 001. It will NEVER offer the accessory ports that a Model 001 has. And, most importantly, it will NEVER flow as much coolant as a Model 001, which is a desired feature of any thermostat assembly for safely raising the operating temperature of any internal combustion engine.

Firearms owners universally praise high quality firearms, especially those firearms that have incredible build strength. This is why rifles like the single shot, falling block Ruger #1 Rifle has such retained value even on the used market. You simply can not beat the immense strength of the falling block action, and ammunition reloaders can rely on running their hottest reloads through it with no worries whatsoever.

The same principle applies with the Model 001. You can use it with ANY level of tune and performance build CRD engine. It will flow the coolant you require under the heaviest cooling system demands, meaning you can use it in your CRD to tow your trailer in Death Valley during the summer... just as long as the rest of your cooling system is in good shape.

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

WWDiesel wrote:

Welds can and do fail occasionally, but if it is done properly normally the metal around the weld will fail before an actual weld will turn loose!!! :roll:

You are right WW........ exept for aluminum !!!!!

Aluminium break in the weld !

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK · **Joined:** Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm **Posts:** 1167

wilco549; your quote:

"Jeff, We all know that you make a great product but there are options for those not willing to spend the money that you are demanding for your unit. Your constant nagging sales routine has become nauseating to some of us.

By the way, I'm a professional engineer, non-drinker (well, very little anyway) and take offense at you comment "cobbled together by some guy who is from the "Hold My Beer, I Am Going To Try Something" School of Engineering?""

The title of this thread reads "Is there a good thermostat solution". I am doing nothing but answering the question, and giving answers as to why other solutions are not as good or even bad. Science and Energy is trying to come up with an answer that is right for his situation, and I am merely helping him with this.

If you did not develop any of the other alternative solutions to the O.E. Liberty CRD engine thermostat problem, then why are you taking offense? Why would you, as a professional engineer, endorse a garage solution over something that was developed in consultation with a Stant Corporation engineer and using the services of a professional machine shop? To me, that would seem to be contrary to your training as a professional engineer.

If you DID develop one of the alternative solutions you would therefore have legitimate reasons why you would be offended. Please post your reasons why, as a professional engineer, you think your solution is a viable alternative to mine. After all, that is the core reason this thread was started.

If you are offended by the comment itself, (cobbled together by some guy who is from the "Hold My Beer, I Am Going To Try Something" School of Engineering?); understanding this to mean that I was comparing some guy experimenting in a garage to a legitimate School of Engineering, then you completely misread my post. This comment is merely an expression, and not a comparison.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

I just ordered this cheap thermostat of ebay for 33 bucks: http://www.ebay.com/itm/371844734404?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

I plan on cutting it and modifying it. I am not sure which method I will use yet. I do have an AC/DC TIG welder. Yes, I will replace the plastic elbows. Welding method found here:http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f228/diy-serviceable-thermostat-59804/

DO REMEMBER THE RADIATOR IS MADE OF SOLDERED CONNECTIONS. Welding the aluminum housing is not unreasonable at all. It is not a high stress part.

Also, there are lots of elbows: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281704998087?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT available on ebay cheap. So the Kapalczynski mod is still an easy option. I can't tell how low the housing flange surface is machined to though.

I'd like to know more about dh100m method. The details are hard for me to get from that thread.

Its to bad no one ever found an identical thermostat with a different operating temperature to simply put in the old housing. Its to bad nobody ever picked up the Kapalczynski torch and offered those thermostats. Its to bad they simply didn't come with a decent thermostat setup.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:12 pm

Well, "someone" did make a product that does everything you listed.

But it is expensive.

Other methods may work acceptably, depending on your personal definition of "acceptable"

But, I know of no better option than the HDS-001.

It does everything you listed, and more, but if you want the peace of mind of knowing you have the best possible solution, it comes at a price that reflects it.

If anything ever does go wrong with it, Whether you like him or not, I have no doubt that Jeff will stand appropriately behind his product.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

I am aware of his product and look favorable on it but don't want it. I mean no offense to you or him but it is simply to expensive and not worth the cost in my opinion. Put it in perspective, these Jeeps are coming down in price. A basic Liberty CRD in decent shape can be had for less than 5,000. A thermostat that costs 10% of the vehicle's cost is not an effective solution. I have always considered (and been taught) that cost is part of engineering. You can't spec something to be made from un-obtanium, you cant design a part that is impossible to machine, and a thermostat should not cost 10% of a vehicles value. Sorry

Again, no offense intended. I do not question your perspective or decision to buy it, that's your business. I just wont be doing it and wouldn't recommended it. The price needs brought down, even if it means it needs to be engineered differently.

Is there a good thermostat solution?

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