Is there a good thermostat solution?

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:14 pm

Science and Energy wrote:

I am aware of his product and look favorable on it but don't want it. I mean no offense to you or him but it is simply to expensive and not worth the cost in my opinion. Put it in perspective, these Jeeps are coming down in price. A basic Liberty CRD in decent shape can be had for less than 5,000. A thermostat that costs 10% of the vehicle's cost is not an effective solution. I have always considered (and been taught) that cost is part of engineering. You can't spec something to be made from un-obtanium, you cant design a part that is impossible to machine, and a thermostat should not cost 10% of a vehicles value. Sorry

Again, no offense intended. I do not question your perspective or decision to buy it, that's your business. I just wont be doing it and wouldn't recommended it. The price needs brought down, even if it means it needs to be engineered differently.

I understand your point, this is an issue with all older vehicles, but if you keep thinking like this, you'll either end up getting a new vehicle, either be frustrated since cheap parts don't last. Most people that have been on this forum for years, love the crd, and won't look at few hundred dollars as an issue. But again, what you say makes perfect sense and I understand your logic.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:49 pm

I understand and respect your logic and point of view. I understand that many people look at a vehicle as an investment.

Many of us view it differently, however. Like a favorite toy, a favorite tool, or something that just brings personal enjoyment.

Also I would bet that the 5000 dollar range buys one with higher miles and imminently need urgent expensive maintenance. Usually involving timing component set, water pump, thermostat, turbo, or transmission / driveline repairs.

In a 300 mile radius of here, anything CRD with all recent repairs done and in good shape runs 8-11K. It may be different in your region.

I am not building mine to sell it. I'm prepared to keep it as long as I can, do maintenance where and when necessary to achieve the most life possible.

Its just when you said it's too bad such a thing isn't available, I didn't see the distinction that it wasn't available within the budget you've established for it.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:42 pm

I agree the HDS is an expensive option, but so was the 800+$ SunCoast torque converter for this vehicle! If you want the best, you must be willing to pay for it!
Like it or not, these vehicles are slowly becoming collector's items since they were only available for 2 years in this country. So spending a little extra on one to keep it in top notch condition for the long term is not real bad investment... :roll:

Disclaimer: I do not have an HDS thermostat, but if I needed to replace my thermostat, I would seriously consider purchasing one for long term viability...

Most owners have no plans to ever get rid of their Jeep Liberty CRD as there is nothing else available that comes close to it's power and uniqueness, so they do not mind spending a little extra money on good high quality parts...

:SOMBRERO:

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:13 am

Plus, by the time you put another 100k on it, with the much lower cost of Stant replacements, it evens out. If I were fixing one up to sell, heck no. But for something I plan to keep as long as I can. It might all even out in the end.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:16 am

WWDiesel wrote:

Like it or not, these vehicles are slowly becoming collector's items...

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

He has a point. And it might seem a little strange at first.

My other car is a 2000 Honda Insight. Sounds boring…. It is an aluminum car mostly hand assembled in Japan where the NSX is made. It was produced at rate less than the DeLorean and my color and year correlates to less than 2,500 produced. How many of those are on the road? Jay Leno has laughed at people with Camaros and said that the Honda insight is a better collector’s car. That’s not why I have it (never patch another rust hole and outrageous MPG, 99 MPG best). It is still neat, the closes thing to a concept car I have ever owned.

Nearly halve the junk yards and part stores I halve talked to since I bought this Jeep didn’t know they even had a Liberty diesel and said they would love to see that. Some told me they didn’t make when till I told them I own one. Its not why we may have bought them but they are a rarer gem that will likely be sought after as time progress. How many Jeep people love to find a Scrambler, first generation Unlimited, etc. This vehicle may be on that list one day. I had a small list of acceptable vehicles I considered having met my utility needs, economy, and cool factor. I picked the Liberty CRD and others may do something similar in the future. I wish they would have put a solid axle up front instead of the independent. I am not recommending that people start hording Liberty CRDs in their back yard or anything like that. It just that lots of people talk about the rare diesel variant of lots of cars.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:03 am

Of all the vehicles I own or have ever owned, I would not want to sale the Jeep diesel because it is so very unique!

How unique is it? In 2014 I pulled into a small CDJ dealership to have the trailer hitch recall inspection done and the service advisor asked me where in the world did I get a Liberty diesel as he did not know they ever made them! Before I left the dealership that day I had the hood opened up and all of the mechanics out of the shop, and all of the salesmen were all hovering over and looking at my Jeep diesel. Most commented, they did not know Jeep ever made a Liberty diesel! Guess they did not sale very many of them in this part of the country? I know I have only seen one more of them and only once in a local grocery store parking lot....

As some drivers do not keep them up well, engines die, and they end up in the salvage yards or a person simply parts them out, they will become rarer and harder to find a good one that has been well taken care of!
Example, look at VW Beetles; in 1968 one could be bought for ~1800$ brand new; go buy a good well restored one today! $$$$

Laugh if you want, but the more unique and rare a vehicle becomes, the more collectable it becomes over time.... :goink:

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

Turns out that cheapo thermostat is set at 188. I am getting tempted to switch the barbed fittings and run it as is. :twisted:

If they fail, they have always failed open for me. I can buy a couple extra to keep around the shop.

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:51 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Of all the vehicles I own or have ever owned, I would not want to sale the Jeep diesel because it is so very unique!

How unique is it? In 2014 I pulled into a small CDJ dealership to have the trailer hitch recall inspection done and the service advisor asked me where in the world did I get a Liberty diesel as he did not know they ever made them! Before I left the dealership that day I had the hood opened up and all of the mechanics out of the shop, and all of the salesmen were all hovering over and looking at my Jeep diesel. Most commented, they did not know Jeep ever made a Liberty diesel! Guess they did not sale very many of them in this part of the country? I know I have only seen one more of them and only once in a local grocery store parking lot....

As some drivers do not keep them up well, engines die, and they end up in the salvage yards or a person simply parts them out, they will become rarer and harder to find a good one that has been well taken care of!
Example, look at VW Beetles; in 1968 one could be bought for ~1800$ brand new; go buy a good well restored one today! $$$$

Laugh if you want, but the more unique and rare a vehicle becomes, the more collectable it becomes over time.... :goink:

Few years ago the fuel pump clerk yelled at me to let me know I fill up with diesel and not gasoline... Makes me smile when I think of it...

craws010 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:14 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Of all the vehicles I own or have ever owned, I would not want to sale the Jeep diesel because it is so very unique!

How unique is it? In 2014 I pulled into a small CDJ dealership to have the trailer hitch recall inspection done and the service advisor asked me where in the world did I get a Liberty diesel as he did not know they ever made them! Before I left the dealership that day I had the hood opened up and all of the mechanics out of the shop, and all of the salesmen were all hovering over and looking at my Jeep diesel. Most commented, they did not know Jeep ever made a Liberty diesel! Guess they did not sale very many of them in this part of the country? I know I have only seen one more of them and only once in a local grocery store parking lot....

As some drivers do not keep them up well, engines die, and they end up in the salvage yards or a person simply parts them out, they will become rarer and harder to find a good one that has been well taken care of!
Example, look at VW Beetles; in 1968 one could be bought for ~1800$ brand new; go buy a good well restored one today! $$$$

Laugh if you want, but the more unique and rare a vehicle becomes, the more collectable it becomes over time.... :goink:

I wonder if that one you saw in the grocery store parking lot was the one I just bought? I picked it up in Hawkinsville :roll:

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:24 pm

thermorex wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

Of all the vehicles I own or have ever owned, I would not want to sale the Jeep diesel because it is so very unique!

How unique is it? In 2014 I pulled into a small CDJ dealership to have the trailer hitch recall inspection done and the service advisor asked me where in the world did I get a Liberty diesel as he did not know they ever made them! Before I left the dealership that day I had the hood opened up and all of the mechanics out of the shop, and all of the salesmen were all hovering over and looking at my Jeep diesel. Most commented, they did not know Jeep ever made a Liberty diesel! Guess they did not sale very many of them in this part of the country? I know I have only seen one more of them and only once in a local grocery store parking lot....

As some drivers do not keep them up well, engines die, and they end up in the salvage yards or a person simply parts them out, they will become rarer and harder to find a good one that has been well taken care of!
Example, look at VW Beetles; in 1968 one could be bought for ~1800$ brand new; go buy a good well restored one today! $$$$

Laugh if you want, but the more unique and rare a vehicle becomes, the more collectable it becomes over time.... :goink:

Few years ago the fuel pump clerk yelled at me to let me know I fill up with diesel and not gasoline... Makes me smile when I think of it...

I go to car shows and jeep events, not to show off my POS, just to hang out.
No one has ever said "Ooh, thats one of those rare Libertys with the diesel engine."
They just see an average Liberty.
(if they were paying any attention they might see the turbo-diesel stickers and hear my open exhaust that doesn't sound like any other kind of jeep)

Rare doesn't always mean collectible.
I see the CRD as more of a novelty.

And lets face it, a fully restored VW type 2 is more of an attention grabber than any Liberty.

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:38 am

flash7210 wrote:

thermorex wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

Of all the vehicles I own or have ever owned, I would not want to sale the Jeep diesel because it is so very unique!

How unique is it? In 2014 I pulled into a small CDJ dealership to have the trailer hitch recall inspection done and the service advisor asked me where in the world did I get a Liberty diesel as he did not know they ever made them! Before I left the dealership that day I had the hood opened up and all of the mechanics out of the shop, and all of the salesmen were all hovering over and looking at my Jeep diesel. Most commented, they did not know Jeep ever made a Liberty diesel! Guess they did not sale very many of them in this part of the country? I know I have only seen one more of them and only once in a local grocery store parking lot....

As some drivers do not keep them up well, engines die, and they end up in the salvage yards or a person simply parts them out, they will become rarer and harder to find a good one that has been well taken care of!
Example, look at VW Beetles; in 1968 one could be bought for ~1800$ brand new; go buy a good well restored one today! $$$$

Laugh if you want, but the more unique and rare a vehicle becomes, the more collectable it becomes over time.... :goink:

Few years ago the fuel pump clerk yelled at me to let me know I fill up with diesel and not gasoline... Makes me smile when I think of it...

I go to car shows and jeep events, not to show off my POS, just to hang out.
No one has ever said "Ooh, thats one of those rare Libertys with the diesel engine."
They just see an average Liberty.
(if they were paying any attention they might see the turbo-diesel stickers and hear my open exhaust that doesn't sound like any other kind of jeep)

Rare doesn't always mean collectible.
I see the CRD as more of a novelty.

And lets face it, a fully restored VW type 2 is more of an attention grabber than any Liberty.

Right, not going to compare with a nice vintage restoration. Maybe in 20 years, who knows... I'm really thinking to try maintaining the crd as best I can, and have it as a vintage vehicle in the years to come, it will never worth for me to sell it due to huge depreciation vs money I spent on it.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

After looking at this image I realize that my OEM thermostat was stuck open which explains a lot. My needle would also clime to about the same orange painted second needle in this image. The replacement has arrived and it seems identical. I will look more closely and report any visible differences.

I wont be able to confirm the temperature is 188 until it is installed the motor has warmed up. I am also doing a rocker/camshaft repair (along with some other work) so it will be awhile before I can report the temperature. I plan to get new brass elbows and, if it does show 188ish on the gauge, I will order extras since they are only 33 dollars shipped.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

Anyone have a good source for the barbed fittings?
If I measured right they are:
8mm x 1.25 elbow 3/8 (9.24mm) hose?
6mm x 1.25 straight 5/8 (16mm) hose?

Sergio del Castillo · **Posted:** Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:26 pm

Am I the only one to notice what I notice in that gauge picture?
From the center mark to the right, each click is worth about 3 to 4 Degree F, but to the left, the first click is worth 40 Degree F.
I have gone through two OEM thermostats, the first one failed open in 2010. Coming down from Engineers Pass in Colorado to the Million Dollar Hwy, mostly coasting down the trails (Alpine Rd), my temperature gauge went all the way down to less than the 1/4 mark. The Jeep did not overheated on the highway (70+ MPH) even it is was on July. The second one I had it changed as a precaution as I thought that the Jeep was overheating. I was wrong, it was at the same meddle position as when new. About half notch to the left of the middle. I keep the old thermostat as spare, as I now it is good. That tells me that the temperature at that position is about 190 Degree F really not 176 Degree F as shown on the picture. I have over 191,000 miles on it and the only time that the needle pass the midpoint was climbing Mt, Washington, not even pulling a 2,000 pound trailer through the Appalachians.

I have no reservations with the EOM thermostat.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:22 pm

It also possible that your factory temp gauge is mis-calibrated.
In any case, as long as your temp needle stays close to 12:00, your good.

There are only two ways to know exactly what your coolant temp is.
1. Install a quality digital temp gauge
2. Monitor live sensor data using an application like TorquePro

Sergio del Castillo · **Posted:** Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:11 am

Thank you flash.

I use the built in calibration check for the dashboard one a year at least. I know that the fuel gauge is about 1/10th of the tank off towards the full side. At the 1/4 full mark I put constantly 16 to 17 gal. I never let it go below that point. When I fill the tank it takes a while (50 miles +/-) to move from past the full mark. I know that is the float sensor in the tank, but I am not going to drop the tank for it. If I ever need to work in the in tank fuel pump, then I will do something about it.

The temperature gauge is normally to the left of 12, about one notch, and move slightly up and down within that notch depending of the load factor, air temperature and if I am using the AC or not. The exact number I do not know, but as long as stay there constantly, done it since new, I am OK with it.

I am an old fashion guy that love mechanical gauges, but I have been forced to live first with idiot lights and electric gauges, and now with electronic gauges. I love the dash board in my '62 TR3A, cable driven speedometer and tach, capillary tube heat gauge, piped oil pressure gauge and amp-meter. only the electric is the fuel level gauge and is the one that is not reliable. Ran out of fuel a couple of times.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:07 am

Science and Energy wrote:

Anyone have a good source for the barbed fittings?
If I measured right they are:
8mm x 1.25 elbow 3/8 (9.24mm) hose?
6mm x 1.25 straight 5/8 (16mm) hose?

Not certain on the exact pieces, but I find some of the brass fittings like that at home depot, although I think they are really expensive there

thefunk · **Posted:** Mon May 08, 2017 11:59 pm

I've got the HDS unit in mine. Yes, Expensive. But guess what, you bought a vehicle with known engineering failures, and the factory thermostat is at the top of the list. If you plan on keeping the rig for anything near 100k miles, bite the bullet and do it. The engine heats up as quick as a gasser, the heater will finally melt ice off your windshield, and you'll be WARM even when it's darn cold outside. The temp gauge will stay firmly planted exactly where it should be no matter what the weather is or what you're doing with it. Could you modify a factory gauge? Sure, but unless you're a machinist with a penchant for working with aluminum and pot metal assemblies that never were meant to be screwed with, and you have no other hobbies or interests in life other than proving it can be done (which is a fantastic hobby, don't get me wrong) you're going to have tens of hours invested into solving a problem that could be solved in about 5 minutes with a hit to your credit card that you'll forget about a month or 2 later when you're cruising around in sub-freezing weather with toasty feet.

And at the end of the day, when you open the hood up you get a nice anodized assembly to look at, not JB weld and hose clamps.

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK · **Joined:** Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm **Posts:** 1167

flash7210 wrote:

It also possible that your factory temp gauge is mis-calibrated.
In any case, as long as your temp needle stays close to 12:00, your good.

There are only two ways to know exactly what your coolant temp is.
1. Install a quality digital temp gauge
2. Monitor live sensor data using an application like TorquePro

Flash:

You are only partly correct here.

You are correct when you say the ONLY way to know exactly what your engine temperature is, is to use a quality digital temp gauge or monitor it with TorquePro or an OBDII reader.

You are incorrect in stating that as long as the needle on your O.E. engine temperature gauge is close to 12:00 o'clock, you are O.K. The O.E. gauge is inaccurate, and therefore can not be trusted.

There is also a simple fact to consider regarding the opening temperature of the thermostat valve in the O.E. thermostat assembly. Outside of overheat situations, hot weather and heavy load demands on your engine, the HIGHEST you can ever expect your engine's operating temperature to be is 176 degrees Fahrenheit. Ask any diesel engine designer, engineer, or technician about that temperature and they will tell you it simply is not the ideal temperature to run the any current internal combustion engine at, let alone a diesel.

As we all know, any thermostat valve's performance will deteriorate over time and that they are designed to fail open. Barring any other cooling system problems that can cause overheat situations, your engine's operating temperature will only lower from 176 degrees over time and use. So essentially you are going from a bad situation to an even worse situation as time and miles pile up on your engine. All that pollutant crap clogging up your intake tract and cylinder head? That is not simply the particulates from the EGR system and the crankcase ventings, it is also improperly combusted fuel from the engine running at too low an operating temperature. Compounding the problems of the terrible pollution control system and incomplete combustion is the fact that none of the sludge that forms in the intake tract as a result of these problems ever has a chance to burn off because engine is r-u-n-n-i-n-g t-o-o c-o-o-l.

If you want the ideal power output, fuel economy and reliability a modern diesel engine can offer, 176 degrees Fahrenheit is simply not a high enough operating temperature.

Is there a good thermostat solution?

Who is online