Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!

rankom · **Posted:** Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:59 pm

to remove cam seals , i drilled into with very small drill bit but be very slow and careful , and put in small self taping screw and grab it with vicegrip pliers . i used this method many times on rear main seals and etc ,

fitty · **Posted:** Sat May 06, 2017 8:19 am

Just reading this now. Wish I had sooner. I'm across the lake in Nanticoke Ontario and I have the complete set of VM timing tools.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

Oh, well. The generic tools weren't too bad in price.
thanks anyways

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

Is the valve cover gasket installed dry or oiled?
All the information I have read simply says clean the surfaces. The metal valve cover gasket has a black coating. Should I care if there is any oil residue on the mating surfaces (maybe there is supposed to be). I wanted to oil the rockers before I install them and cleaning the head after to make sure there is ZERO oil will be difficult.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2017 9:02 am

Wet or dry. It doesn't really matter.
Its almost impossible to install the cover without dripping some oil onto the head and gasket.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

WTF
I just installed the camshaft sprockets and one (on the new camshaft) is about 0.02 inches closer towards the motor causing the sprocket to rub on the rear timing belt cover. This was measured with a feeler gauge where the sprockets are nearest. I used the feeler gauge to make the sprockets flush with one another. I measured a second time using a file as a straight edge from camshaft end to camshaft end. Both showed 0.20 difference. The low side (intake) just got a new camshaft and a new shim. The sprocket is only rubbing a little and would probably just shave the aluminum down a little but WTF. WHY IS IT OFF? Both camshaft locator pins are in.

Could the camshaft from Germany be different? Could European camshaft sprockets or shims be different? I don't get it! :banghead:

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

I just knocked down some casting flashing that was on the rear cast aluminum timing belt cover. It now only kisses a small part the slightest bit. I notice that this is the side of the cover that has the milled out section which aligns with the wide edge of the sprocket as if rub would be an issue. Was the first camshaft also further in? I didn't check or notice. If the flashing hadn't been there, I would have never caught the subtle difference.

I am not going to assemble it further until I know WTF is going on.
If the camshaft lobe's placement were also skewed 0.020 for some reason, they would still travel completely on the rocker surface judging from the wear lines on the old camshaft. I compared camshafts before the new one was installed but didn't notice a difference. If this was a camshaft style that didn't use a shim and I installed one (if that can even happen), it would have moved the camshaft in the other direction.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

I just took off a little more flashing and it no longer rubs but that 0.020 is weirding me out. Should I be concerned?

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2017 2:36 am

That's that spacer issue I was telling you about.

The ones I have (used) are the old type and require spacers. The new type do not require spacers, and trying to use spacers will make you go to the zoo and throw poo at monkeys.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2017 11:00 am

Could it be that newer cam gears have a slightly different profile (offset) designed to work with the newer cams that do not use the spacers so there is no contact issue of the gear touching the housing??? :roll:

Just a thought!

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

GordnadoCRD wrote:

That's that spacer issue I was telling you about.

The ones I have (used) are the old type and require spacers. The new type do not require spacers, and trying to use spacers will make you go to the zoo and throw poo at monkeys.

If no spacer was put in, it would move the camshaft in the wrong direction. I thought it might be a camshaft that doesn't use the spacer when I first put it in but there was way too much play. When I put the spacer in, they each had similar play.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

I am a complete frigging idiot. I had the cover upside down to look when I ordered the camshaft. The failed one was on the left. I got an exhaust camshaft and put it on the intake side. :ROTFL:

I think a part of my soul just died a little. Anyone got a cheap INTAKE CAMSHAFT lying around. :furious:

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2017 4:08 pm

Now that's funny!!! Cannot help but laugh! :ROTFL:

Don't feel bad, we all make simple mistakes.... :wink:

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

Yep, this really is a new post on this old thread I started. We had some deaths in the family and as a result we are trying to adopt a child and it has been very involved, painful, and expensive. This is one (albeit the greatest) of many reasons why the Jeep has sat in the garage until now.

I turns out the euro cams recommended to me didn’t quite fit. At least I don’t see how they could work. The lobes may have been the right shape (not confirmed) but they didn’t stick out quite far enough and it made the sprockets rub on the back cover. Additionally, the timing pins did not line up.

I ordered a new camshaft listed for the Liberty CRD and everything fits. The timing belt is installed, pins removed, it has been bled, turned by hand, and cranked over…. and over…..and over. I’ve have also removed the egr in the process. It had just gotten the GDE Eco tune shortly before it had lifter failure.

I pulled an injector and reinstalled it sticking out of the motor. It is not opening. I’ve got the following codes from a generic code reader:
P0093 – fuel leak (it was bled at the filter and injector line 4 while cranking)
P0073 – ambient air sensor (it is disconnected so that makes sense)
10118 – engine coolant sensor (I think it was cranked for a while without being connected)
P2296 – Fuel Pressure Regulator?
P1263 – Glow Plug
P1267 – Glow Plug
P1261 – Glow Plug

Codes cleared, still now injector action.

The Jeep sat for a long time without a batter. I don’t know if it could have affected the flash or something.

Only things not connected are the alternator, and the two EGR related plugs. I don’t see anything else not connected.

Any ideas of why there is no fuel injection?
I had the injectors checked and cleaned when they were removed. Could they have messed them up?

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:34 pm

Possible... but first,
Have you checked the fuel injector fuse and relay?
Have you verified that the fuel primer pump has bled out all air? (don't know if you have an in-tank lift pump by your sig mod list.)

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

I pulled each fuse and checked them all. I didn't check the relay. What relay? I have my doubts but I can check it.
The primer pump was bled a lot.
I don't think the previous owner installed a lift pump.
It doesn't matter that the alternator is not in correct?

Does the camshaft position sensor always throw a code when it fails? I am worried I left it on when I ran the intake/valve cover through the parts washer. I don't think I did but I am trying to cover all doubts. I read a failure there will stop the injectors from firing.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:46 pm

Condolences on your family's losses.

The injector fuse and relay are in the power distribution box just forward of the battery. It's one of the smaller relays, not the big ones on the driver's side (LHD) of the PDbox. Their positions are marked on the underside of the lid.

Since you had the injectors out, make absolutely sure the correct wires are going to the corresponding injector. If they weren't physically tagged, they are easy to mess up, and will act as a spark ignition engine will if the plug wires are connected wrong.

I don't believe having the alternator disconnected would prevent starting, as long as your battery is good and fully charged.

The EGR/FCV plugs undone will not damage or prevent anything critical from happening.

Sitting without a battery should not effect the ECM flash in any way.

Since the camshaft position sensor is essentially a sealed electromagnet, there really isn't any harm if it got washed, unless it's physically broken allowing solvent or whatever to enter the unit. More likely that the connector is not fully engaged or a wiring issue if there is a problem with it. Not impossible, just unlikely.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

Thank you for the sympathy.
I just cranked and bled some more. I only bled it a little at the steel lines. Should I do it more?

I got P0093 again. That is the only code to come back after clearing the codes then cranking for a long time.
I will look at the relay for the injectors.

I re-taped up the wiring harness when I was working on it. There was only one spot where the insulation had been damaged from time and rubbing and I repaired it.
I would reason even if the injector connectors where switched, injector one would still open at the wrong time.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:27 pm

Science and Energy wrote:

Thank you for the sympathy.
I just cranked and bled some more. I only bled it a little at the steel lines. Should I do it more?
If you bleed the steel lines, put good shop rags under and around that area to soak up mess. Bleed while cranking, and being VERY careful to keep your hands away from any HP spray. Best way is to open the HP line 1/2 turn until fluid is flowing through, then tighten quickly to proper tightness.

I got P0093 again. That is the only code to come back after clearing the codes then cranking for a long time.
I will look at the relay for the injectors.

I re-taped up the wiring harness when I was working on it. There was only one spot where the insulation had been damaged from time and rubbing and I repaired it.
I would reason even if the injector connectors where switched, injector one would still open at the wrong time. If any injector leads were switched, they would still inject when told, but would be told to do it at the wrong time, providing there is proper fuel pressure available. Wrong time = no fire, no joy.

Where I got fooled was with the injector 1 lead, as it was coming from a different loom branch than the other 3. I had all of them connected one injector forward of proper, and the cyl 4 injector I had the connector for the Fuel Pressure Solenoid attached to it. When I saw that, I went through other members' picture galleries, and found my mistake. (Thanks, WWDiesel and Papaindigo!)

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

Does a bad camshaft position sensor always throw a code?

I had Anna (my wife) crank while I felt the relay. It is definitely clicking over when in the run position.

I cracked each line again at the injector and let some fuel out. I am wondering now if the injector can open when turned slightly upward. I think I will put number one back in tomorrow. I took it out to verify no injector opening. I will know if it opens because the motor will fire.

Calling it a night.

Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!

Who is online