Extrude Honing anyone?

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

I sent my injectors out to get tested while they were pulled from the motor for other reasons. The motor has 115k. They asked me if I wanted to have the injectors honed while I was there.

I hadn't thought of it before that. I kind of assumed it wasn’t available for our injectors. The price to have them honed is about 200 more than just testing. They offer 25hp and 50hp increases.

I was mildly interested in the 25hp increase. I know that if the injectors are honed to large the turbo might need upgraded, my guess is that at 25hp I wouldn't need to worry about that. I will be towing and any extra HP wouldn't be bad. I have also read claims that MPG will go up. I currently have the EcoTune full torque.

So, I'd like to community’s input.
Will I need it remapped by GDE for the 25hp hone :?:

Is it a bad idea with these used injectors :?:

Does anyone here have some experience they can offer :?:

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon May 01, 2017 11:53 am

If you already have a GDE tune I would not bother.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon May 01, 2017 1:01 pm

I only know of one person here who tryed a extrude hone.
He was doing a super CRD build which also included a custom built turbo and custom GDE tune.

You achieve the same effect by programming the ecm to run at higher fuel pressure and open the injectors longer.
In any case, your not likely to gain any mpg.

If you want to know what a 25 HP increase feels like:
1. Get a MPPS 13.02 cable and software.
2. Use it to read your ecm tune.
3. Save your current ecm tune so you can reload it later.
4. Load a free Yeti 811 stage 4 tune (assuming yours is an 05).
5. Feel you torque converter shudder

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon May 01, 2017 1:40 pm

flash7210 wrote:

I only know of one person here who tryed a extrude hone.
He was doing a super CRD build which also included a custom built turbo and custom GDE tune.

You achieve the same effect by programming the ecm to run at higher fuel pressure and open the injectors longer.
In any case, your not likely to gain any mpg.

If you want to know what a 25 HP increase feels like:
1. Get a MPPS 13.02 cable and software.
2. Use it to read your ecm tune.
3. Save your current ecm tune so you can reload it later.
4. Load a free Yeti 811 stage 4 tune (assuming yours is an 05).
5. Feel you torque converter shudder

5. Unless you have a SunCoast TC! :ROTFL:

As to the honing, they are basicly micro polishing the openings of the injectors which may slightly enlarge the openings up just a miniscule bit. Therefore they will pass a little bit more fuel flow when open and thus make a little more HP & torque. Downside, this will tend to lower rail pressure due to increased flow, so ECM will call for more pressure from CP3 which will have to work a little harder and you may get a little bit more black smoke due to the slight change in air to fuel ratio. :roll:

Personally, I would not recommend it on a daily driver, but very good for high performance diesels or if you are planning on doing some heavy duty hauling and are not real concerned about fuel mileage!!! :2cents:

If you want more power and torque like Flash stated, get a MPPS cable and install a Yeti stage IV hot tune! But you better have a GOOD torque converter that will handle it or you will get lots of shudder... :juggle:

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon May 01, 2017 5:45 pm

I had mine honed 30% ~50hp. I also changed the turbo so i cant comment how the injectors do with a stock turbo. Mine smokes like a freight train until the turbo kicks in, then it clears up and the jeep launches like a rocket.

At the hot tune, the injectors pulse width is pretty much maxed out at 200hp and your only option is to hone the nozzles. To take max advantage of the new nozzles you really need a custom tune to decrease the injectors pulse width across the map, this will keep it from smoking so much. After 200hp your turbo will be maxed out, billet wheel or not youll be overspeeding the turbo. Your mpg will generally decrease, but a custom tune should have you back into normal mpg's.

All in all, id keep it stock. There really isnt wnough head room in the components to properly use the available fuel.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon May 01, 2017 5:48 pm

This is my "super crd build": viewtopic.php?t=79139

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

FYI.

The KJ was fairly unique for the Bosch fuel system. Jeep paid extra to have hardened coatings applied to high pressure areas in the fuel system. This included the MPROP, the PCV, and the nozzles. When you extrude hone these, the nozzle coating will be wasted and future deterioration will accelerate. The stock turbo runs out of flow long before the injector duration becomes an issue.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon May 01, 2017 9:39 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

FYI.

The KJ was fairly unique for the Bosch fuel system. Jeep paid extra to have hardened coatings applied to high pressure areas in the fuel system. This included the MPROP, the PCV, and the nozzles. When you extrude hone these, the nozzle coating will be wasted and future deterioration will accelerate. The stock turbo runs out of flow long before the injector duration becomes an issue.

Another sound reason not to do it!!!! Extrude hone that is.... :roll:

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue May 02, 2017 1:22 am

Yeah its not worth it unless you have a turbo to back it up. You cant burn extra fuel without extra air.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue May 02, 2017 10:12 am

mass-hole wrote:

Yeah its not worth it unless you have a turbo to back it up. You cant burn extra fuel without extra air.

X2, so very true, air / fuel ratios are extremely important and must be maintained within certain parameters for efficient combustion... :wink:

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue May 02, 2017 3:57 pm

Personally, ive never seen nozzles wear out, even the hogged out 200% ones that the dmax guys run. Usually the bodies go bad way before the nozzles do. I have 272,xxx miles on my dmax and while i had the engine tore apart to do studs i sent the injectors out to be cleaned and tested. They called me and told me that they were waaaay out of spec. So i asked if i put new nozzles in if that would help and they said nozzles wouldnt do anything. These are the bone stock original injectors since day one, with only a tune.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue May 02, 2017 6:24 pm

diesel_guy86 wrote:

Personally, ive never seen nozzles wear out, even the hogged out 200% ones that the dmax guys run. Usually the bodies go bad way before the nozzles do. I have 272,xxx miles on my dmax and while i had the engine tore apart to do studs i sent the injectors out to be cleaned and tested. They called me and told me that they were waaaay out of spec. So i asked if i put new nozzles in if that would help and they said nozzles wouldnt do anything. These are the bone stock original injectors since day one, with only a tune.

I also think that if someone is honing nozzles then they should understand that they are toying with durability/reliability, whether it be the injectors themselves or the rest of the motor.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Tue May 02, 2017 7:28 pm

In my experience, most of the people who resort to such mods are primarily / solely concerned with bragging rights of some sort. By the time they get here, durability and reliability have gone out the windows of their minds.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue May 02, 2017 7:51 pm

GordnadoCRD wrote:

In my experience, most of the people who resort to such mods are primarily / solely concerned with bragging rights of some sort. By the time they get here, durability and reliability have gone out the windows of their minds.

I wouldnt exactly say these CRD's are powerful, even tuned. They are decent, but I would absolutely take some extra horse power to deal with driving in the mountains on 31 or 32" tires. Its not just about rolling coal(although honing nozzles with no turbo upgrade would achieve this). If I ever had to tow anything with my Jeep here at 6500' I'd be going 20 mph up the hills. Driveability and performance are my concerns and beyond the tunes the next steps are new turbos and honed injectors.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

The injectors came back OK from the test shop. They said the injection duration is staying open slightly longer on all of them. They explained its an age thing but that they are still fine and they recommend using them for a lot longer. They said they would be able to offer remained injectors for only 250-300 if I ever needed them. That price didn't sound to bad. I didn't get the honing. I will consider it if I ever get a bigger turbo.

They came back with new crush washers and O-rings which was a nice surprise.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri May 19, 2017 11:19 am

Science and Energy wrote:

The injectors came back OK from the test shop. They said the injection duration is staying open slightly longer on all of them. They explained its an age thing but that they are still fine and they recommend using them for a lot longer. They said they would be able to offer remained injectors for only 250-300 if I ever needed them. That price didn't sound to bad. I didn't get the honing. I will consider it if I ever get a bigger turbo.

They came back with new crush washers and O-rings which was a nice surprise.

Good choice. Look at it this way, even just a GDE hot tune is getting a little sooty. Add 30% more fuel and you wont be able to see out the rear window.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri May 19, 2017 11:40 am

More fuel is more heat on diesels right? In my experience these engines might have trouble keeping cool if there was a lot more heat. What about the valves? Might they fail with extra heat?

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri May 19, 2017 12:04 pm

Mountainman wrote:

More fuel is more heat on diesels right? In my experience these engines might have trouble keeping cool if there was a lot more heat. What about the valves? Might they fail with extra heat?

If you went with a bigger turbo then I would be willing to bet that EGT's wouldnt get too much hotter. Less back pressure on the turbine side and more cool air coming in on the intake side. I dont think dieselguy was seeing outrageous EGT's.

Engine cooling is already an issue for me as it is which i think has more to do with the cooling stackup design than actual heat. The A/C condenser is the densest core and sits right in the front, then you have a 20x20" CAC that is at least attempting to cool 350F+ charge air, which it sucks at, then the radiator finally gets it and the cooling air is probably 150F by then.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri May 19, 2017 12:45 pm

Yeah, with all that AC crap gutted my problem is usually overcooling actually :lol:

Yeah, the fact that you're having the TC unlock do to not enough power is making tons of heat. I guess more fuel would actually help that problem

Extrude Honing anyone?

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