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No start
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86564		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  HER_CRD [ Sat May 13, 2017 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  No start
So was working yesterday on my injector miss issue and now today I have a no start condition. The engine was OK, but won't start. I did manage to find that the output fuse for the auto shutdown relay was blown so I changed it and blew that one too. There should be a short to ground somewhere, but haven't found anything yet.

Later this afternoon it also developed a no crank condition which I thought was due to the battery being run down, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I have the battery charged. The auto shutdown relay is now cycling very rapidly as well.

I was able to pull fault codes. There was a lot of them and I'm thinking these may all not be an issue.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

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Author:  flash7210 [ Sun May 14, 2017 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
You recently had your ECM out, correct?
Double chech all your connections.
Recheck all your fuses.
Swap or replace the ASD relay.
Have your battery load tested.
Author:  HER_CRD [ Sun May 14, 2017 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
Yes, ECU was out on Friday to check the pins. I did have the battery tested earlier today and is good. Also swapped relays around but still get the same clicking.

Battery was measuring 12.3v and I checked voltage at the 85 terminal of the relay socket where current comes into the relay. This is measuring the same. Test light has a constant glow when probing here. Thoughts on a ground issue on the coil side of the relay? Battery ground is good.

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Author:  HER_CRD [ Sun May 14, 2017 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
The auto shutdown relay grounds through the ECU. Is there a way to test to be sure this is good?

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Author:  rankom [ Sun May 14, 2017 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
well to be honest its not easy to chase electrical issues ,i would start , checking and replacing any old repaired wire connections done before , on engine harness , make sure they are connected together and making good connections , this is so important , because , bad connections can side tracked your diagnosing steps.
Author:  HER_CRD [ Sun May 14, 2017 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
The harness for the most part looks to be pretty unmolested.

I did manage to narrow this down a bit more though, and it's starting to make me nervous. Connector C105 is between the auto shutdown relay and the ECU. It's in the corner of the engine bay by the coolant bottle. I opened this connector and was able to ground the auto shutdown relay here. I have continuity between this connector and pin 44 of the C2 connector on the ECU. The relay still rapidly clicks with this connector plugged in and the ignition on.

On Friday night when I had the ECU out, I inadvertently set it on top of the positive battery post and the quarter panel. Would this have messed it up?

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Image
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Author:  flash7210 [ Sun May 14, 2017 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
Is there a red "dot" lit on the instrument cluster that stays lit and never goes out after you turn the key on?
If so, that could be a clue to a different type of electrical fault
Another possibility is a bad ignition key switch.

Quote:
On Friday night when I had the ECU out, I inadvertently set it on top of the positive battery post and the quarter panel. Would this have messed it up?

Were the sparks?
Are there burn marks on its case?
It sure doesnt sound good. But considering that Ive seen sensitive electronics survive lightning strikes, there is a good chance your ECU is ok.

I had dealt with some electrical problems before. Thought the ECU was toast.
Turned out to be a intermittent loose harness connection.
Author:  HER_CRD [ Sun May 14, 2017 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
The one down in the corner of the panel? Yes it seems to stay on. I'll have to look tomorrow to be sure though.

The ECU looks physically to be OK. No burns. No sparks were made. I was tipped off by a whining noise that I thought came from a relay. I know ECU's in general are supposed to be fairly robust. This just has me a bit worried.

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Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Sun May 14, 2017 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
If the ecm closed the circuit from battery positive to body ground, you fried the ecm an will need a new one or send it out to get fixed. It only takes a millisecond to fry the ecm on the battery. The no crank is a fairly good giveaway.
Author:  HER_CRD [ Mon May 15, 2017 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
I spoke with a few dealers (the last seeming to be most knowledgeable) today about getting the a new ECU. I was cautioned about using an ECU from another vehicle because the ECU is programmed to a specific VIN and can't be changed. The engine may not even run. Can anyone verify?

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Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Mon May 15, 2017 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
If they can't be changed then how to they program them to start with?

Anyways I'm not an expert but I believe you need to have the same year at least. Possibly the same flash version.

GDE is the ultimate authority on these things.
Author:  HER_CRD [ Mon May 15, 2017 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
I did talk with GDE today and there was no concern of using a ECU from another vehicle. It just needs to be from an 05.

The way it was being put to me was once it's programmed to one VIN number it may not be able to to be changed.

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Author:  HER_CRD [ Mon May 15, 2017 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
This is what the panel looks like after it sits for a minute or so with the key on. The little red light doesn't seem to go out.Image

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Author:  flash7210 [ Mon May 15, 2017 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
Do any of the other lights go out?

The red dot indicates a ASD problem or a SKIM problem.

SKIM is related to your programmed ignition key.
If you have a spare key, give it a try.
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon May 15, 2017 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
HER_CRD wrote:
I did talk with GDE today and there was no concern of using a ECU from another vehicle. It just needs to be from an 05.

The way it was being put to me was once it's programmed to one VIN number it may not be able to to be changed.

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Yes, must be the same year.
VIN can be programmed in by dealer or GDE.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Mon May 15, 2017 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
HER_CRD wrote:
The way it was being put to me was once it's programmed to one VIN number it may not be able to to be changed.


Weirdly, that DOES apply to CDJ's chipped keys. Once they are programmed they cannot be programmed to another vehicle.

As far as the ECM goes, GDE would know.
Author:  HER_CRD [ Mon May 15, 2017 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
Spare key makes no difference.

Before the picture was taken, the air bag light, electronic throttle light and low fuel light were off. There is actually 3/8 tank of fuel in the tank. I don't believe the gauge is reading though because the auto shutdown relay isn't working properly to send power to the front control module. The problem I think I have is the ECU is not providing a ground for the relay. From what I can tell the wiring seems to be OK.

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Author:  WolverineFW [ Mon May 15, 2017 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
VIN can be changed on the ECU.

Keys are permanently programmed to vehicle.

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Author:  HER_CRD [ Mon May 15, 2017 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
I'd appreciate anything you guys can give to verify the ECU is damaged. I need to build a case for this to convince Madame President.

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Author:  flash7210 [ Mon May 15, 2017 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No start
HER_CRD wrote:
I'd appreciate anything you guys can give to verify the ECU is damaged. I need to build a case for this to convince Madame President.

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I honestly dont know to confirm a damaged ECU.
Scanning for codes and providing us a list of those codes would be a good place to start.
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