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Black smoke & little power
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86617		 Page 5 of 7
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
Mine goes straight to 100 when started up cold, no matter the speed.
Once fully warmed up (10+miles driving) it sets about 50 at idle and 80-100 driving, depending on engine speed.
At 65mph the tach is about 1800, and oil pressure 90ish.
That's with Mobile1 TDT 5W-40.
Author:  gt40freak [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
GordnadoCRD wrote:
Mine goes straight to 100 when started up cold, no matter the speed.
Once fully warmed up (10+miles driving) it sets about 50 at idle and 80-100 driving, depending on engine speed.
At 65mph the tach is about 1800, and oil pressure 90ish.
That's with Mobile1 TDT 5W-40.

In the video it had been warmed a little. It was at about 65 at idle when I first started it cold. It looks like the bottom end should still be in good shape. I'm going to start tearing it down tomorrow.
Author:  mass-hole [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Black smoke & little power
The pressure would only stay steady because of a relief valve bypassing the oil, otherwise it should increase with rpm.


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Author:  gt40freak [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
I got the "valve cover" off today.
The rockers were in bad shape.

5 seized rollers 4 with broke lifters
7 very sloppy rollers
4 marginal

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Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
Good Catch!
Author:  gt40freak [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
I will be pulling the head to replace the valves, springs & studs. What else should be replaced? Keepers, retainers, guides, seals, seats? I dont want to be back in here again for a long time.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
gt40freak wrote:
I will be pulling the head to replace the valves, springs & studs. What else should be replaced? Keepers, retainers, guides, seals, seats? I dont want to be back in here again for a long time.

I would take it to a good quality machine shop and let them check the head thoroughly, springs and retainers should be OK! They should be able to tell you the status of valve guide wear and I would replace valve seals if you can get new ones... They can also check flatness of head with a good true machinist's straightedge and have head milled a thousandth or two to make it flat if necessary. If it were mine I would also have them pressure test it to make sure there are no cracks. Last thing you need is to go through all this work and expense only to find out you have a cracked head!
Last but not least, replace the head gasket with a new one while you got it all apart! But sure and use some Permatex® Copper Spray-A-Gasket® Hi-Temp Sealant on both sides of the head gasket! It will fill any imperfections and help seal the mating surfaces...

:SOMBRERO:

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Author:  mrhemi [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
Been following this thread, my wife's CRD has done the same thing. It was due for a timing belt change then this happened. Rockers were added to the parts list. The only code it threw was "cylinder #1 misfire" and only when running. haven't had time to open it up yet, but I got the injectors out last week and had the tested in a Bosch shop. Came back much the same as the OP's report. These were not the problem. Also went through the harness at the time and found no electrical issues. So, I am hoping for no more damage than a broken rocker.
GT40freak, what did the cam lobes look like after running on stuck rollers?
Author:  gt40freak [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
mrhemi wrote:
Been following this thread, my wife's CRD has done the same thing. It was due for a timing belt change then this happened. Rockers were added to the parts list. The only code it threw was "cylinder #1 misfire" and only when running. haven't had time to open it up yet, but I got the injectors out last week and had the tested in a Bosch shop. Came back much the same as the OP's report. These were not the problem. Also went through the harness at the time and found no electrical issues. So, I am hoping for no more damage than a broken rocker.
GT40freak, what did the cam lobes look like after running on stuck rollers?

I took them to a machine shop to clean & check everything. I know it will need cams. At least 2 lobes had no less than 1/8" worn off. After I pulled the head I found that cyl 2 had processed a glow plug tip. There is a few dimples in the head but nothing serious, the piston & liner looks good.
Author:  gt40freak [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
Here's what I got done today. The hardest part was disconnecting the oil lines from the turbo.

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Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
That's quite a chunk of labor!

If you have the head checked out by a machine shop, consider also having them replace all the exhaust manifold studs with better grade ones. The factory ones are really soft.

ALSO $100+ shipping for the pair including spacer shims (they are the originals)
Author:  gt40freak [ Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
GordnadoCRD wrote:
That's quite a chunk of labor!

If you have the head checked out by a machine shop, consider also having them replace all the exhaust manifold studs with better grade ones. The factory ones are really soft.

ALSO $100+ shipping for the pair including spacer shims (they are the originals)

I am going to get new cams. Thanks for offering.
Author:  gt40freak [ Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
I noticed the oil film on the intake runners is only in cyl 2-4. Cyl 1 only has soot. I already deleted EGR & will be installing a ProVent when everything goes back together this time. The machine shop is cleaning the head & intake. No more intake sludge for me.
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Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
gt40freak wrote:
GordnadoCRD wrote:
That's quite a chunk of labor!

If you have the head checked out by a machine shop, consider also having them replace all the exhaust manifold studs with better grade ones. The factory ones are really soft.

ALSO $100+ shipping for the pair including spacer shims (they are the originals)

I am going to get new cams. Thanks for offering.

Nothing wrong with that, Its what I did before even tearing things down.
I figured it was the price of piece of mind, but things were way way better than I expected when I got it apart.

Had I known the only problems were a failed Stigan Turbo and a bunch of idiots rewiring stuff they didn't understand, I would have been several thousand dollars and several months ahead.
Author:  sbarne3 [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
Forgive my ignorance here, but how do you inspect the cams to see if they need to be replaced? I'm about to reinstall the intake ("valve cover") on mine so I want to make sure they are in ok shape before I put it all back together.

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Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
one quick way is to put a form of "backlight" so that the cam is between the lighted surface and your vision. Place a straight edge across the raised part of the lobe across where you can see the shiny path that the roller has made. If you see a clear lighted gap where the roller pathway has gone, then that's wear. To measure the wear use a micrometer to measure the difference between the unworn portion of the lobe at the sides, then measure the worn path the same way, and subtract it from the unworn part. The difference is the amount of wear. Digital calipers can also be used for this if you are careful but the results will possibly have more variance. Specs of max wear are not given for the CRD in the FSM but I consider .010" to be extreme.
Author:  sbarne3 [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
Thanks... That's good information

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Author:  mrhemi [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
Well, it took me awhile due to my work schedule to get this similar issue to the OP's resolved. The wife's CRD is now back together and running like a champ. I just put a 1000km highway run on it to shake out any bugs (there weren't any) and clean out the engine.
As suspected, it had broken a rocker. Half a dozen more had trashed rollers and were about to fail. This also wiped out the exhaust cam, so both were replaced. The engine was extremely dirty inside, even though it had only 135000km on it. Nasty thing, the EGR system. I opted not to remove the cylinder head, but poured a liquid carbon deposit cleaner into the ports to soften up the mess. The liquid stayed there for over 24hrs, so that indicated no valve leakage. This engine had a GDE tune installed about 3000km before failure, and it was shocking how quickly the oil blackened. So a block off plate was added into one of the EGR lines to insure positive shut off. The flow valve disc was removed as well. It was obvious the the EGR valve was leaking by, even though turned off. I have to be able to pass a biannual emissions inspection, so cannot remove.

So, the list:
Timing Belt Service (ID Parts complete kit)
Utilized the ID Parts Timing Belt Tool Kit. Excellent bang for the buck, worked great.
Rocker arms and cams.
Unplug the CCV oil drain back loop seal (this was covered in a separate post regarding Provent)
Bosch 5V glow plugs (no reflash, so I will update how that works in the Canadian winter)
Fuel Injectors inspected and tested.
EGR block off plate.
Fumoto oil drain valve. (18mm x 1.5mm because the pan was stripped).
Fan shroud mod.
The induction hoses were all changed just prior to the rocker failure.
HDS 001 Thermostat installed prior to the rocker failure. (No T-stat debate please)

I want to thank all the board members and vendors for the assistance and wealth of information.
The beasty fired right up with minimal fuss and runs smoother than it did when we bought it a few months ago.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
Glad things are looking up!

I think that GDE tune will probably help you pass any sniffer test they do.

I can't recall if you mentioned a lift pump, in-tank or otherwise, and I don't see on on your list or sig.

If you don't have one, I recommend putting it next on your list, preferably before winter sets in hard, if you can afford it. Especially as it's your wife's ride?

It's one of the most "worth it" mods you can do, and really not that difficult.
Author:  geordi [ Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Black smoke & little power
Definitely put a lift pump in these. Even if you just get one of the Facet pumps like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013SG86X0/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IUU3KUD51BYLM&colid=Q9AAF5DNN7DT

And then mount it in the engine bay between the tank and the filter head - Anything helps the main pump, and you can cut out the quick connect by the tank easily and replace it with a section of fuel hose that slips over the factory lines to eliminate that air leak potential. No it isn't as secure as the in-tank pump, but I've now heard of a couple of the in-tank ones failing, and if that happens you have to drop the tank again. At least with an external it is easy to replace or bypass if it dies on you.
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