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 Post subject: Diagnose the turbo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:07 am 
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Any tips for diagnosing the turbo? I have lost power, and I'm blowing black smoke. Not as much power loss as when I have blown holes in my CAC hoses, and the hoses look ok. I replaced the turbo to intercooler hose because I had a spare. I'm at 124,000 miles on the original turbo.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnose the turbo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:31 am 
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i'd look into a dirty/bad map sensor, clogged/bad egr, vacuum leak, and cracked boost hoses including the airbox to turbo inlet hose before suspecting the turbo. Not saying its not the turbo, but its an expensive part to replace. I've had power loss/black smoke a few times over the years and its always been other things. Currently 170k miles on the stock turbo. You can pull the inlet hose and check for compressor shaft play, fore/aft is ok, side to side is not. its a pain to check the vanes.


edit - with a scan tool you can also check manifold pressure, that can help narrow down things

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnose the turbo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:12 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Ok we know what you're seeing, but was it a sudden change, like from one day to the next, or something that came on gradual?

Does it act this way at all times now, or only under certain conditions, such as accelerating, or going up a hill?

Constant or intermittent?

I agree with dskater411, in that it's not only an expensive piece to change, they are also pretty amazingly durable compared to 20-30+ years ago. It's more likely to be something in the control systems, and it's easy to check for obvious issues as he described. Edit - even a dirty air filter can cause all those symptoms at higher RPM. %throttle doesn't matter since there is no actual throttle. With a bit of dirty, the higher it revs the more it will fall on it's face and blow black smoke.

A scan tool will also perhaps give you codes that also narrow things down considerably.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
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rockers
Timing set
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YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
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 Post subject: Re: Diagnose the turbo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Dent wrote:
Any tips for diagnosing the turbo? I have lost power, and I'm blowing black smoke. Not as much power loss as when I have blown holes in my CAC hoses, and the hoses look ok. I replaced the turbo to intercooler hose because I had a spare. I'm at 124,000 miles on the original turbo.

Are you getting a P0299 underboost code?
You should be if its a turbo problem.

As mentioned above, start by cleaning or replacing your MAP sensor.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnose the turbo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:48 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
Ok we know what you're seeing, but was it a sudden change, like from one day to the next, or something that came on gradual?

Does it act this way at all times now, or only under certain conditions, such as accelerating, or going up a hill?

Constant or intermittent?

I agree with dskater411, in that it's not only an expensive piece to change, they are also pretty amazingly durable compared to 20-30+ years ago. It's more likely to be something in the control systems, and it's easy to check for obvious issues as he described. Edit - even a dirty air filter can cause all those symptoms at higher RPM. %throttle doesn't matter since there is no actual throttle. With a bit of dirty, the higher it revs the more it will fall on it's face and blow black smoke.

A scan tool will also perhaps give you codes that also narrow things down considerably.


Yeah, I guess I was quite vague. It happened two days ago. I lost some power, and blew black smoke under accelerating load, but it is not as though I have lost the amount of power or had the amount of black smoke that comes with a blown CAC hose. I've had those blow or tear in the past and I know what that is all about. I'll check the MAP, but I cleaned that about 15k miles ago. I'll also look at the air filter. My scan tools don't talk to my CRD, I'll have to get one that does.

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JBA 4" lift, IRO Tri-link w/ wwdiesel bracket, JBA sliders, 235/85-16 Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs, Mercedes Benz forged ultralight wheels, Weeks stage 1 and 2, Weeks lift pump and harness, Weeks battery tray and AGM battery, GDE tune, Suncoast TC, updated front pump, HDS 001 T-stat, ARP studs, Front and rear Detroit/Eaton Truetrac LSD.


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnose the turbo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pm 
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You guys were right, not the turbo. I drove from Florida to Colorado the first weekend of January, and blew the turbo to intercooler hose. It was an ID Parts silicone hose with 23k miles on it. I patched it in a home depot parking lot to get home using a piece of 2" conduit. I replaced the hose with a spare OE jeep hose. Then a few days ago, I started having power loss, but not as much as from what I had experienced with blown CAC hoses. Surely the intercooler to engine hose (also ID Parts silicone with 23k miles) couldn't be blown. I also did not get the roar that I have experienced in the past. So tonight I changed the air filter, jumped the vacuum valve, and cleaned the MAP. When reinstalling the MAP I dropped my allen wrench and had to climb under the car, and sure enough, there was a blown out slit in my intercooler to engine hose. Replaced that with a spare OE hose and ahhhh, boost again. I guess I need to be more careful about convincing myself what isn't the problem.

Also, what gives with ID parts hoses? 23k miles? OE lasted me 80k miles.

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JBA 4" lift, IRO Tri-link w/ wwdiesel bracket, JBA sliders, 235/85-16 Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs, Mercedes Benz forged ultralight wheels, Weeks stage 1 and 2, Weeks lift pump and harness, Weeks battery tray and AGM battery, GDE tune, Suncoast TC, updated front pump, HDS 001 T-stat, ARP studs, Front and rear Detroit/Eaton Truetrac LSD.


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnose the turbo
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:10 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
I think it was recently stated that their hoses are Samco- made now.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnose the turbo
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:10 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:05 pm
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
I think it was recently stated that their hoses are Samco- made now.


And the first batch of ID Parts brand hoses were not, or should I not bother with Samco hoses either?

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JBA 4" lift, IRO Tri-link w/ wwdiesel bracket, JBA sliders, 235/85-16 Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs, Mercedes Benz forged ultralight wheels, Weeks stage 1 and 2, Weeks lift pump and harness, Weeks battery tray and AGM battery, GDE tune, Suncoast TC, updated front pump, HDS 001 T-stat, ARP studs, Front and rear Detroit/Eaton Truetrac LSD.


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnose the turbo
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:26 am 
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Location: Green Cove Springs FL
Dent wrote:
GordnadoCRD wrote:
I think it was recently stated that their hoses are Samco- made now.


And the first batch of ID Parts brand hoses were not, or should I not bother with Samco hoses either?

IDK who made the first batch of hoses, but apparently they are now Samco.
Everyone who has Samco seems quite pleased with them with no reported failures.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnose the turbo
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:07 pm
Posts: 398
Location: Southeast Michigan
GordnadoCRD wrote:
I think it was recently stated that their hoses are Samco- made now.
I don't think they sell IDParts branded hoses anymore. My understanding was that they dropped those and instead are selling Samcos (not IDParts-branded, just normal Samcos) at cheaper prices.

edit: found the post ...
cevans wrote:
We sold out of the IDParts hoses a few months back. We signed a distributor contract with SAMCO to bring some better pricing to the states, but with the understanding that we wouldn't be selling other options.
source: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=87628#p920764


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnose the turbo
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Thank You Joe

That is the one I was remembering, but couldn't find it in the time I had to look.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
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