Battery drain time

Sergio del Castillo · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:50 pm

Hi members.
This is an issue that have aggravated me since new. If I do not use the Jeep for more that 4 or 5 days the battery drains to a point that will not crank the engine. This had happen several times through the years with three different batteries. The first and the last time I was at home and had available a car (my wife's) for a jump start, but one time was in the winter, midnight, around 30F in the long term parking of the BWI airport after my return from a week in Colorado Springs. Luckily, the airport has a free service for jump starts, and they came within five minutes of my call for help (gave the driver a good tip). The other occasions have been when having the Jeep in for service that took long waiting for parts. They (the shop) solved the jump start.
Now, I know that the owner's manual has instructions to remove a fuse if you do not plan to use the Jeep for two or more weeks. Well, have been less that two weeks and I have an empty space for the designated fuse to be removed. In the other hand, the repair and maintenance manual recommends removing a fuse in the power box in the engine compartment which I have not been able to identify. In any case I have not been able to remove any fuse as I do not know which one is it. :banghead:

Have any of you had similar experience or can provide any advise? I know that the electronics in the Jeep, and any newer car, will eventually drain the battery, but, when compared to my wife's Seibren that stays almost an entire month without use and then the engine will crank and starts, is agravating.
Thanks

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:25 pm

Your post suggests that this is a routine/regular event and not something that only happens from time to time. If so you have some electrical circuit that is drawing a modest amount of power all the time when the ignition is turned off. If you have a volt/ohm meter and know what you are doing, I don't, you can probably check the fuses in the panel on the left of the dash and identify what circuit is drawing power. Alternatively you can do what I've done and find a good auto electric specialty shop and have them run down the problem. I've had a glove box light that would not go off when the glove box was closed (try seeing that) and a strange power drain from the passenger seat air bag sensor.

Bottom line you should be able to leave the vehicle parked for weeks with no significant battery drain.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:10 pm

Rather than searching for a fuse, it would be far easier to just pull the negative cable off the battery. But then when you return, you would have to remember to use your key to unlock the door because your keyless entry wouldn't work.

None the less, that wouldn't fix your problem.

The problem is that something is draining your battery when it's off.
Start by removing anything that is plugged into a cigarette lighter.

Some folks have reported that the trailer towing wiring has caused battery drain. But I don't know how they fixed it.

I've left mine at the airport for 3 weeks and started up just fine and I have the factory towing package.

As an alternative.
A 12 volt 500mA solar panel, wired to the battery and placed on the dash, would help keep it charged.

Sergio del Castillo · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:56 pm

Well, I have to say that this last time I left my removable navigation system plugged in the cigarette lighter, and even if it was off, it keep charging the internal battery. But when the manufacturer recommends to remove a particular fuse, that tells me that that is a source of battery drain, maybe not the only one, but for sure a source.

I do have the factory towing wiring, but normally there is nothing connected to it. It is my daily driver, and never failed to start every morning even when I forgot to plugin the block heater in a 0F winter night. Since my retirement on June 2015, the use was substantially reduced, in miles more that in days. Just happens that this last week I had no need to leave the house for any reason, thus the Jeep remained static for 6 continuous days. This morning, no cranking power. The other occasions, except for the time at the airport, it has been in the hands of the shop people, so I do not know the exact conditions (battery on or battery off, etc...). I do have an Volt/Ohm meter and the knowledge of how to use it, and I plan to check the battery drain on a daily basis for the next three or four days and plot the drain per day. Allowing for my wife to let me use her car. She is very nice about these situations and supports me in my car enterprises.

Flash; I do have a solar charging panel, that I used to use in one of my, now gone, old cars. This will require some planning, and if I know that the Jeep will be unused for more that a week, I will surely will connect, but I would like to be able to leave it unused for two or three weeks as you did without previous planning. I am almost sure that the door key operates the latch electrically, though a solenoid. That is the noise that I hear when I use the dumb door key. I do have a dumb key for the jeep in my house key ring. (Something that I learned when accidentally left the key inside the Jeep at the dealer's service line. They cut me the dumb key from the VIN number as they sold me the Jeep.) Therefore the removal of the battery ground post is not practical.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:09 pm

flash7210 wrote:

Rather than searching for a fuse, it would be far easier to just pull the negative cable off the battery. But then when you return, you would have to remember to use your key to unlock the door because your keyless entry wouldn't work.

None the less, that wouldn't fix your problem.

The problem is that something is draining your battery when it's off.
Start by removing anything that is plugged into a cigarette lighter.

Some folks have reported that the trailer towing wiring has caused battery drain. But I don't know how they fixed it.

I've left mine at the airport for 3 weeks and started up just fine and I have the factory towing package.

As an alternative.
A 12 volt 500mA solar panel, wired to the battery and placed on the dash, would help keep it charged.

The trailer tow wiring, at least the mopar 7 pin one I installed myself, is supposed to use the cigarette lighter that was on the earlier Libertys to trigger the relay for the wiring. Since our CRDs are only 05-06 and only have the power plug, which is always on, the trailer wiring is always active. I remember I did measure a current draw from the trailer wiring but can't remember what.

I don't know if this is true for the factory installed wiring or not. I unplugged my wire from the back of the power plug to keep it from triggering the relay.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:44 am

Mine has a mopar tow package with a 7 pin plug.
I don't know if it is from the factory, but all the parts have mopar part#s.
I've left mine with the key in the ignition for 9 weeks, and the battery still had plenty of power.
I would recommend checking what the power draw is, versus the battery capacity.
The battery could be faulty in not performing to it's capacity, and Lead-acid batteries also can develop internal current draws due to conductive minerals settling. This is most common if the battery has been serviced with non-distilled water.

Billybob · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:40 am

I have never heard of this "fuse" that is supposed to be removed.

You need to disconnect the Positive lead of the battery then with the multimeter set to DC Amps and the Red Meter lead moved to the ''Amps" position....put the meter in series with the disconnected Positive lead and the Red post on the battery.

Do not crank the engine as you will blow the fuse inside the Multimeter!

Make sure all doors are closed, all internal and external lights are OFF, Radio OFF and nothing plugged into Cigar lighter/Aux power plug.

Your meter should show around 30 mA current draw ie. 0.030 Amps...this is what the SKIS, PCM, BCM Clock etc are drawing.

Anything much greater than 30 mA ie. say 200 mA is not good. If this is the case then one by one remove and then put back each fuse under the hood and inside the cabin.....once you pull out a certain fuse and the current drops down to about 30 mA then you know which circuit is drawing the extra current and with help of the wiring diagrams you can isolate it further. :wink:

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:50 am

Billybob wrote:

I have never heard of this "fuse" that is supposed to be removed.
You need to disconnect the Positive lead of the battery then with the multimeter set to DC Amps and the Red Meter lead moved to the ''Amps" position....put the meter in series with the disconnected Positive lead and the Red post on the battery.
Do not crank the engine as you will blow the fuse inside the Multimeter!
Make sure all doors are closed, all internal and external lights are OFF, Radio OFF and nothing plugged into Cigar lighter/Aux power plug.
Your meter should show around 30 mA current draw ie. 0.030 Amps...this is what the SKIS, PCM, BCM Clock etc are drawing.
Anything much greater than 30 mA ie. say 200 mA is not good. If this is the case then one by one remove and then put back each fuse under the hood and inside the cabin.....once you pull out a certain fuse and the current drops down to about 30 mA then you know which circuit is drawing the extra current and with help of the wiring diagrams you can isolate it further. :wink:

Excellent writeup and diagnosis instructions for tracking down excess battery amperage with everything OFF!

One additional item I might add; if you do not own a multimeter that does DC amps, you can also use a simple 12 volt test light or a 12 volt bulb with two wires attached.
Disconnect the battery cable, connect the test lamp or bulb in series between the cable end and the post on the battery.
If the draw is normal or very low, the bulb will just barely glow dimly, that is normal.
If the bulb burns very brightly, you have a high amp draw and use the process described by Billybob to locate what is pulling the higher amps.
When the culprit is found by pulling fuses, the bulb will go from bright to dim...

good luck,
:SOMBRERO:

Sergio del Castillo · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:25 am

Thanks you all for the nice and complete information.
Billybob, you gave me the number of mA that I should be looking for as normal. My instrument do reads DC amps. This sure will be better than following the battery drain for a week or so.
I do also have the mopar tow package wiring with the 7 ping plug, I installed package myself, and it does takes power from the back of the cigarette lighter in the center console for the relay pack for the backup lights, brake lights, and the turnsignal lights, but only when those operate, not when the Jeep is in storage. There is a separate fused power line (from the power box) for the trailer tail lights and another line for the electrical brake modulator (not connected in my case).
The reference to the relay that I am talking about is shown in the Owners Manual, pages 349 and 350, section 7 VEHICLE STORAGE. and in the Service manual, section 8W, page 97-3 IOD FUSE. If you read both, one says that the fuse is in the Power Box (engine compartment) and the other says Junction Box (passenger compartment). I liked this better than removing the negative cable at the post of the battery, since I was under the impression that the door handle cylinder key operated the latch electrically, but looking at the service manual, it is both, electrically and mechanically, thus that option is viable as long as I remember to keep a 10mm wrench in the door pocket.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:03 pm

The information on the IOD fuse is covered in detail on Page 8W-97-3 of the 2005 Jeep FSM.
CIRCUITS INCLUDED WITH IOD FUSE
• Cluster
• Body Control Module
• Diagnostic Connector
• Map Lamps
• Glove Box Lamp
• Courtesy Lamps
• Compass Mini-Trip Computer
• Radio

Sergio del Castillo · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:40 pm

OK I have a problem. :banghead:

My instrument maximum reading is 200 mA. Two instrument fuses gone.
Using WWDiesel method, with a #105, 12v, 1A, light bulb I get a dim glow from the filament, about 1/4th or less than normal,that is about .20 to .25 Amps, or 200 to 250 mA, but it also pulses a a rate of about one to one and a half pulses per second. Why?

Now to check fused circuit by fused circuit to identify the guilty one. My 05 CRD is the Sport model, so I do not have as many electronics as the Limited, but still is going to be long, and working in my driveway without any shade on a 90+F day I am taking it slowly.

Thanks again for your useful recommendations.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:40 pm

Sounds like some relay is cycling. Chase it all you want but like I said if it was me I'd take it to a good auto electric shop and be done with the chase.

Sergio del Castillo · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:13 pm

Papaindigo, I have follow your recommended route multiple times in the past. I was working full time, I do not have a covered driveway nor a garage to work in inclement weather, and mostly I did not have the special tools required for some of the work, and in my neighborhood, they don't look too keen at you rebuilding an engine or replacing a transmission in your driveway visible from the street (dough I have done it several times).
It was what was required at the time and I found a responsible shop with a responsible CRD technician that I have used for the last 12 years. But, I like working in cars, and that was missing. I have done to my CRD as much as I have been able to do like brake pads and rotors, replacing damaged (outroading scars) body parts, installed accessories, repairing the wiring for the rear ABS sensor, etc.... Now I am retired, well partially retired, and time is available I like to do what I enjoy doing, and troubleshooting electrical issues in my CRD is one of them. Maybe, and surely, I will spend more time, and probably money, following that route, but it is what give me pleasure to do.
I do keep your recommendations in the back pocket, so when I get to a no end situation I have some place to go for a solution.

Thanks again

Sergio del Castillo · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:21 pm

Members,
It appears that one of my updates is missing. I was lucky in finding that the issues disappeared with he first fuse that I pulled, #34 in the Junction Box inside the cabin. I was able to measure the mA at the battery with my volt/Ohm meter, and with that fuse out the reading was 1mA only, thus the research is limited now to what is behind that fuse. Something for tomorrow. :BANANA:

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:55 pm

That's encouraging. I'm retired too but never been much on chasing electrical problems on any vehicle built after the 1970s or so; way too complicated

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:58 pm

Sergio del Castillo wrote:

Members,
It appears that one of my updates is missing. I was lucky in finding that the issues disappeared with he first fuse that I pulled, #34 in the Junction Box inside the cabin. I was able to measure the mA at the battery with my volt/Ohm meter, and with that fuse out the reading was 1mA only, thus the research is limited now to what is behind that fuse. Something for tomorrow. :BANANA:

#34 is the IOD fuse:
The IOD fuse is a 15-ampere mini blade-type fuse, located in fuse cavity # 34. The fuse is secured within a White molded plastic fuse holder and puller unit that serves both as a tool for disconnecting and reconnecting the fuse in its junction block cavity, and as a fuse holder that conveniently stores the fuse in the same junction block cavity after it has been disconnected.

See my earlier post for what all it feeds... :wink:

Billybob · **Posted:** Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:36 am

yeah I was going to suggest fuse #34....been in lots of discussions regarding current draw through this circuit.

Plenty of components sitting on this circuit so you need to use the wiring diagrams and first pull out any solenoids, relays etc. that may be semi-shorted out. After this you have to get a bit more aggressive by physically cutting wires so as to isolate a whole section of wiring..make sure you cut off any splices at the same time. You can slip some heat-shrink insulation over these cut wires, solder them together and shrink the insulation over the join with a hairdryer once you have finished.

Once you find the branch of wiring causing the current drain you repeat the process to isolate it even further down.
Worst case scenario.....been there done that.....is that within a harness somewhere two or more wires are touching each other and have rubbed through their insulation so are either shorting against each other or are semi-shorting to chassis ground!

The wiring harness on these KJs are like the Beltway going around Washington DC...only place in USA I have ever visited. A wire coming from a sensor 18 inches from the under-hood fuse/relay box does not take the shortest route....it does a complete circle around the whole engine bay and ends at its destination about 10 feet later! :shock:

Have fun....I will guide you through the relevant wiring diagrams when needed....I am retired in the Bushveld and have lots of time on my hands! :wink:

Sergio del Castillo · **Posted:** Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:47 pm

Thank you Billybob, my home town is just outside the beltway outside Washington DC, I know perfectly well what you mean.
At this time, as the forecast for today is up to 94F, even more, I am working inside making a compile of the wiring diagram for that particular fuse. The Service and Maintenance manual has the wiring diagram chopped in pieces so they could cover every single model, including exports, thus I an selection the pieces that apply to my simple base model and combining them in a single diagram for my personal use.

I am hopping that I could find the problem before getting to the cutting and splicing wires. That is a skill that I am not too handy, and afraid I could make things worse. Thanks for your offer to help, I will keep it in mind.

Also I am going to isolate the add on accessories that I installed when I got the Jeep, like the hands off telephone, the towing wiring, the Air Locker compressor, and the engine compartment hood mounted light, even though these last two were installed after I first notice the issue with the battery drain, but as they are relatively easy to isolate I like to eliminate them as soon as possible.

By reading the manual, there is not a procedure to check the Body Control Module, except as you describe, isolating each wire individually.

Sergio del Castillo · **Posted:** Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:18 pm

Hello members,
Yesterday I created a composite wiring diagram of what is connected to fuse #34, including power wiring, ground wiring, control wiring, dimming wiring, all what I could get out of the Service Manual. This morning, with the drawing on hand, I checked all the wiring, connections ext.., including removing the lamps from the interior lights, and then reconnected them one by one. Results, no faults found. The only items that I did not checked were the Cluster and the BCM itself, (there is rain forecast for this afternoon and I did not want to be trapped in the driveway with the interior in pieces. They are not easy to get items.
What I found that is good news is that, using the light bulb test method, the glow and pulsing disappeared after 90 seconds, that is the timer for the BCM to turn the interior lights off after you leave the Jeep, normal operation. After that time elapse, I got no glow of the light bulb, but as soon as I removed it for a fraction of a second the time cycling started again. This prevented me from connection my Volt/Ohm meter as the initial current is too much for my instrument, even without the lamps load.
I got a voltage drop of 0.37 volts on the battery in 48 hours. The Jeep was left inactive with all the accessories off, but all the connections left as normal (battery connected, fuse #34 connected, etc.). Being the battery 3 months old and checked at the shop on Sunday afternoon, I feel that that may be too much of a drop.

For now, I am going to let it be, but having a watchful eye on it, as my present schedule for this and the next month do not require any long time without use.

Thanks again for your comments and advise.

user113 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:06 pm

So, a couple of tips for you when you decide to get back to troubleshooting. (I just did this in my truck last weekend.)

1. Amazon probably has the fuses you need for your meter, stock up. I found a 10 pack for mine for about $3.50 w/free shipping.

2. Instead of putting the ammeter between the positive battery cable and the positive post, insert it between the negative battery terminal and the negative cable. That way if a lead falls off and lands on "the chassis" it will not draw exorbitant amounts of current as would happen if you bridged the positive terminal to ground. Much safer.

3. If your meter does not have a scale greater than 200 mA, you can bypass meter temporarily as described in the following steps.
i. Disconnect negative battery cable.
ii. Securely attach one end of a jumper wire and one of the disconnected meter leads to the negative battery terminal.
iii. Removeably attach the other end of the jumper wire to ground (like with an alligator clip). This starts the shutdown cycle.
iv. While the shutdown cycle is going on, connect the other disconnected meter lead to ground (make this connection independent of the jumper wire you attached to ground).
v. Wait for the shutdown cycle to complete.
vi. Plug the leads into your meter.
vii. Disconnect the removable end of jumper cable, thereby handing off the circuit to the meter.
viii. Proceed with your testing. Anytime you need to reset the shutdown cycle, unplug a meter lead and put the jumper wire back in place to shunt the current around the meter.

Happy hunting.

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