LOST JEEPS
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

Shocks and Springs Questions
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86833		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Steve777 [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Shocks and Springs Questions
So it's about time to replace the shocks/struts on my 06 CRD (at about 96K miles). Things are not horrible yet, but I'd like to get to it before they get bad. I've looked thru the threads on suspension stuff, and did not see anything that really talked about my specific needs, so I thought I would post here to see what folks suggest.

I am not really interested in any lift, just in restoring or improving the handling. I driver over 5+ miles of dirt roads with some serious washboards every day, so a really stiff shock (which might be OK for someone who usually is on pavement) will just loosen my fillings pretty quickly. I'd like a shock that can give good control, but not shake you up on washboards or every bump/pothole. Also, there doesn't seem to be much sag in the springs (maybe 1/2" at most).

So here are my questions:

1. Which brand/model shocks to get. I have been leaning to the KYB GR2/Excel. In past experience the KYB GR2's were a well made shock which gave good handling but was not so stiff as to cause issues on really bumpy roads (unlike the Bilsteins I have had). And I see they are offered as an OME alternative in some kits. Anyone have any thoughts here, other choices I should consider?

2. New Springs? Do I need them? Doesn't seem that bad now, but if folks' experience is that the springs go downhill quickly after this many miles maybe I should? If so, which ones to get if you don't want any lift; not seen much discussion on that. Moog makes replacement springs at a good price, and they have different models for gasser vs diesel which is a good sign. Anyone have any experience with them?

3. If I am replacing the front strut and maybe spring, what other components should I put in? The rubber spring mounts? The top strut mounts? Dust shield? I'd like to get the assembled replacement struts with all new everything pre-assembled, BUT no one seems to list different part nos for the gas and diesel versions, so I am assuming they are all for gassers. So it looks like I will be putting my own together, and would like to know what usually needs replacing before I take them apart...


4. Anything else I should be replacing/checking with this job?


Thanks in advance for your thoughts...
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
Replacing the factory springs is entirely up to you and shouldnt be necessary.

I tried the KYB GR2 shocks. Hated them.
After only 18 months of use I switched them for a pair of Gabriel shocks.

Before taking things apart, inspect both your lower and upper ball joints. Its very common for them to wear out and need replacment at 100k miles.
Author:  Steve777 [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
Thanks Flash.

What was it you didn't like about the GR2's?
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
Steve777 wrote:
Thanks Flash.

What was it you didn't like about the GR2's?


I replaced my 150k mile, factory original front shocks, with the GR2s.
They didn't improve my ride at all.
Still bobbed and weaved down the road like an old Cadillac.

The Gabriels I later installed were an improvement.

I've used KYB Gas-a-just shocks on other cars and liked them a lot.
The GR2 was a disappointment.
Author:  Steve777 [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
Interesting.

My experience with the GR2's was with a Datsun 240Z (quite a few years ago). I had no issues with them, but that was primarily a city car.

What I am noticing now in my CRD is I feel every pothole and bump pretty strongly, and on washboards the rear of the vehicle can come loose (that skidding dash light comes on). No "rolling with the waves" like an old Caddy, at least yet.

I have used Monroe Sensa-Tracs (now OESpectrum) on a car here, and it was a pretty good balance for our roads. Problem was they just didn't last. They do however have a good warrantee and if you don't mind replacing them every 2-3 years may not be a bad choice.

From the online reviews/posts I found, the GR2s/Excels are supposed to be a bit stiffer then the Monroes/Gabriels. They are all priced about the same. The KYB gas-a-justs are supposed to be quite a bit stiffer than the GR2's, so I had ruled them out.

What I'd really like is a shock that is valved to be soft for the small bumps and washboards but stiffens up when needed for handling. Something they all claim they do, but one guys soft is another's too harsh.

I appreciate the input, it's invaluable hearing about other's experiences with the same vehicle.

I may wait to try and collect some more input from folks. And was thinking of trying just the rear shocks of whatever brand first. They are the easiest/cheapest, and I can see how the valving deals with my roads. If it's a bad fit can try something else without being out too much time or dollars.
Author:  mass-hole [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Shocks and Springs Questions
There are the bilsteins too. I put bilsteins on my F150 and it was a big improvement, but not sure on the jeep specifically.

I will say that my jeep rides a lot better with the OME spring/shock. If I had to do it again I might not go with the stiffest spring option up front. I know you said no lift but if you just go springs and shocks it shouldn't be too much and it would get you a guaranteed better controlled ride


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  Steve777 [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
Thanks Mass.

I had Bilsteins on an F250 some years back. They were super harsh on my roads, especially with an empty bed. For the F250 at least, they seem to take a small off the shelf shock and put really stiff valving in it with no care to match it to the truck's needs. Then one of them broke, the end fitting which was pressed on snapped off. Bilstein refused to honor their warrantee; supposed to be lifetime on what was pretty obviously a manufacturing/material defect. Last time any of my money goes to Bilstein, and the Gabriels I replaced them with rode far better at less than 1/2 the cost.

Yeah the OME sounds like what I want, I just don't want the lift, and I'm not sure if their shocks would work if you had stock springs.
Author:  papaindigo [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
Technically the CRD has coil over shocks not true struts. If you don't want any more height, you can go with Moog 81144 springs/Bilstein 24-139168 shocks in front and Moog 81057/Bilstein 24-139175 shocks in the rear. I would recommend against trying to assemble shocks/springs yourself; any decent shop can do it with a quality spring compressor. Don't know about other components but would carefully check ball joints and bushings while in there.
Author:  Steve777 [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
Thanks papindigo. I'll pass on the bilsteins but appreciate the info on the springs.

I was aware that these are not traditional/true "struts" up front. But can you tell me, is the "attachment plate" at the top have a bearing in it like a McPherson strut, or is it just a fixed mounting plate which doesn't really wear out? I haven't taken things apart yet, but seems to me that the upper ball joint should handle all the steering movement and the "strut plate" really is just a fixed mount for the end of the enclosed shock. If so, unless rusted or bent, doesn't seem like much need to replace.
Author:  papaindigo [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
Never been in there so I don't know but the parts fiche sir sam has hosted may help
Author:  mass-hole [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
Steve777 wrote:
Thanks Mass.

I had Bilsteins on an F250 some years back. They were super harsh on my roads, especially with an empty bed. For the F250 at least, they seem to take a small off the shelf shock and put really stiff valving in it with no care to match it to the truck's needs. Then one of them broke, the end fitting which was pressed on snapped off. Bilstein refused to honor their warrantee; supposed to be lifetime on what was pretty obviously a manufacturing/material defect. Last time any of my money goes to Bilstein, and the Gabriels I replaced them with rode far better at less than 1/2 the cost.

Yeah the OME sounds like what I want, I just don't want the lift, and I'm not sure if their shocks would work if you had stock springs.


My experience with the bilstiens is the total opposite. They are valved stiffer than stock but it actually helped smooth the ride out quite a bit since the factory shocks were undervalved. On wash board I would get ultra bad wheel hop and it would start floating around and literally kick out the rear end. No more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
Steve777 wrote:
Thanks papindigo. I'll pass on the bilsteins but appreciate the info on the springs.

I was aware that these are not traditional/true "struts" up front. But can you tell me, is the "attachment plate" at the top have a bearing in it like a McPherson strut, or is it just a fixed mounting plate which doesn't really wear out? I haven't taken things apart yet, but seems to me that the upper ball joint should handle all the steering movement and the "strut plate" really is just a fixed mount for the end of the enclosed shock. If so, unless rusted or bent, doesn't seem like much need to replace.

The top plate is fixed and shouldnt wear out.
Some folks have reported the top shock bolt pushing through the rubber bushing. But that should never happen if properly assembled.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
papaindigo wrote:
Technically the CRD has coil over shocks not true struts.

You are correct! Jeep Liberty's have true "Coil-Overs" which are not "Struts" because they are not part of the steering geometry...
As to shocks, You will not go wrong with Bilstein shocks, they cannot be beat, they provide a great improved ride and handling over most other shocks!

IDParts sells them:> http://www.idparts.com/front-struts-c-36_64.html

as does Shock Warehouse:> http://www.shockwarehouse.com/index.cfm ... _year=2005

Both at competitive prices....

:SOMBRERO:
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
I'd just suck it up and get the OME's,they are pretty soft but match there coils but yes it will give you some lift but if you don't add anything extra the amount of lift is only about 1.5"-2" depending on how much your OE coils have sagged(some reports of 2'-3" of sag for 75K+ mileage KJ's is very common).If you get there coils and matched shocks the ride is good,way to soft for my personal tastes.

To bad the best shocks ever for the KJ were discontinued years ago from Rancho,there RSX line of shocks was the best they ever made.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
A while back I saw some with double - adjustable valving, but can't remember who makes them.

I think what I'm looking for is about the same compression dampening, or possibly a little less, but significantly more rebound dampening for how mine is getting used.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
GordnadoCRD wrote:
A while back I saw some with double - adjustable valving, but can't remember who makes them.

I think what I'm looking for is about the same compression dampening, or possibly a little less, but significantly more rebound dampening for how mine is getting used.

That's one stiff shock,might as well use steering stabilizers for shocks,they have equal compression/rebound.

My rear Bilsteins 7100's are 278/78 valving and with my full body weight(I'm 210lbs) I can barely compress the shock,I have to bolt the top end and use a 2.5ton bottle jack to compress the shock enough to bolt the bottom end.Sadly they are a bit soft still for the weight but the next valving option is just beyond stiff,if I remember it's like 360/80 valving.I had 255/70 valving but those where way to soft.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shocks and Springs Questions
That could be, and they possibly don't make a KJ model. I don't even remember the brand, but the idea of being able to fully dial in both compression and rebound valving really caught my interest. I've seen that kind of stuff on full on racing coil overs, but this was advertised for On road and Off Road Vehicles.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/