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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
newly formatted spreadsheet https://1drv.ms/x/s!AjoXnVa96mPNmJJClN-u5oCid3B_ig

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD 110k miles - working on tb, rockers, arp, camshafts
1985 Mitsubishi Mighty Max 2.0 liter
1989 Vanagon GL


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Merrimac, MA
Jeep Owner - Jsamps1345
Year Model - 2006
Jeep Manufacture Date - 2006? will check and update
Engine Manufacture Date - How would i find this?
TB Replaced - 142,892
ARP Install - 142,892
Rocker replacement - 142,892
Failed Head Gasket - not failed but was replaced with new at 142,892
Head Cracked - No
Intake Valve failure - No, replaced at 142,892
Exhaust Valve Failure - No, replaced at 142,892
Last reported mileage - 154,739

EGR deleted at 142,892 with Weeks kit. Plugged coolant port on side of head.
All new coolant and thermostat at 142,892

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2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited - Rebuilt at 145K
GDE Eco Tune
Weeks 1+2
ARP Studs
New rockers + Valves
New #1 pistion and all connecting rods
New Crankshaft
Carter In-Tank Pump


Last edited by Jsamps1345 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:04 am 
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Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
sorry, forgot it was a public forum bad to post email addy

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AjoXnVa96mPNmJJClN-u5oCid3B_ig

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD 110k miles - working on tb, rockers, arp, camshafts
1985 Mitsubishi Mighty Max 2.0 liter
1989 Vanagon GL


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm
Posts: 717
minnisp wrote:
sorry, forgot it was a public forum bad to post email addy

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AjoXnVa96mPNmJJClN-u5oCid3B_ig



This chart is missing critical information. Please include a column for any cooling system modifications, the date and time they were done, and what exactly was modified.

All previous participants on the chart should be alerted to this new required information, and encouraged to enter the appropriate information.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:32 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:52 pm
Posts: 126
TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:
I believe another poll regarding CRD engine timing belts, rocker arms, and ARP stud upgrades would be redundant and might likely muddy the waters even more than they already are.

I think the narrative on these issues is going the wrong way, as a lot of the discussion regarding valve failures, rocker arm failures and head gasket failures so far has been little more than speculation. Comments like "cheaper by the truckload" torque-to-yield head studs and other complaints regarding both the rocker arms and the valves are indicative that the decision regarding the culprit or culprits for the seemingly over-abundance of head gasket failures and valve train component failures has already been made. :(

That said, some testing of the valves by a forum member or an associate of a forum member was supposed to have been conducted, but I do not think the results of such testing has been posted as of yet. Perhaps there is no adequate test available to determine exactly why engine valves fail, and that is why nothing has been posted. :?: :|

Perhaps a better way to go about finding answers would be to have a couple of CRD forum members directly communicate with the actual engineers who designed the R428 engine, and ask them the appropriate questions as to why there seems to be so many problems with the cylinder head and the valve train of the R428 engine. Why were torque-to-yield head bolts used, why are the rocker arms and the valves apparently so weak that they fail often?

I do not believe anyone has tried to contact the V.M. Motori engineers regarding these issues. If I am wrong, and indeed a CRD forum member has contacted the engineers who designed the R428 engine, please post a synopsis of those communications for the benefit of all CRD owners.

spoken like a smart cookie,..btw my mod 1 has been in since may and what a great design I've run full power up the steepest grades in mass, &NYS and it is so much better than the in line stat,some people subscribe to,.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:44 am 
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Location: Central GA
Updated statistical data chart with two additional entries!

click to view:> https://1drv.ms/x/s!AjoXnVa96mPNmJJClN-u5oCid3B_ig

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/Hayden HD clutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:19 am 
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Updated Chart design!
Click on top left corner (+) to enlarge chart.

Anyone have history of valve failure, please share miaeage so we can add to data!

Image

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/Hayden HD clutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:18 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:05 pm
Posts: 201
I added a column for cooling mod(s). Maybe that info should be organized better? I think the cooling mod that might be telling would be the inline T-stat. I think there were some overheating problems with a few members that put an inline in their upper radiator hose.

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JBA 4" lift, JBA bolt on 4-link, JBA sliders, 32 x 11.5 x 15 Goodyear MTR w/Kevlar, Weeks stage 1 and 2, Weeks lift pump and harness, Weeks battery tray and AGM battery, GDE tune, Suncoast TC, updated front pump, HDS 001 T-stat, ARP studs, Front and rear Detroit/Eaton Truetrac LSD.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:10 am 
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Location: Central GA
Dent wrote:
I added a column for cooling mod(s). Maybe that info should be organized better? I think the cooling mod that might be telling would be the inline T-stat. I think there were some overheating problems with a few members that put an inline in their upper radiator hose.

Reorganized columns,
thanks

_________________
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/Hayden HD clutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:23 am
Posts: 3539
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Replaced Timing Belt at )cough...cough) 120,000. Nothing else done.

Jim Hulse swung by Texas and we did the whole kaboodle at 192,000 miles...timing belt, water pump, valves and rockers. All valves and rocker were still in good condition. Have had EGR Stealth...then GDE...then Weeks I and II. Probably all helped keeps valves and rockers good.

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2006 CRD Sport

Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 8:57 pm
Posts: 97
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
will add to sheet as soon as i can

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD 110k miles - working on tb, rockers, arp, camshafts
1985 Mitsubishi Mighty Max 2.0 liter
1989 Vanagon GL


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:18 pm 
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DarbyWalters wrote:
Replaced Timing Belt at )cough...cough) 120,000. Nothing else done.

Jim Hulse swung by Texas and we did the whole kaboodle at 192,000 miles...timing belt, water pump, valves and rockers. All valves and rocker were still in good condition. Have had EGR Stealth...then GDE...then Weeks I and II. Probably all helped keeps valves and rockers good.


Living on the edge :lol:

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The Red Rocket-2006 CRD-400 ft-lb tune, Eco Trans Tune, Week's Kit, Mishimoto Hoses, Airtex Lift Pump, HDS Tstat, 2 Micron Racor, ARP's, OME 790's+top plate+clevis, JBA 2.5" rear+Iso, JBA UCA, Moab's, 265/70R16 Duratracs, ARB Bumper

2014 F150 EcoBoost


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:46 am
Posts: 7
Pardon my ignorance, but considering new exhaust valves for my liberty and currently ordering parts for my mechanic, I assume their are 8 valves, should I order new seats/springs for those as well? Im also ordering the rocker kit..


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:51 pm 
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theeld wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but considering new exhaust valves for my liberty and currently ordering parts for my mechanic, I assume their are 8 valves, should I order new seats/springs for those as well? Im also ordering the rocker kit..

Not unless there is an issue with one of them!
Reuse the valve springs and have an automotive machine shop regrind the current valve seats using the proper 3 angle method and then lap in the new valves to the reground valve seats with lapping compound and test for leakage. :wink:

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/Hayden HD clutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:15 am 
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they were able to grind my existing seats and we reused the existing springs. you should get the guide seals too (machinist said to change them and they're not very expensive). i changed all of the valves and glad i did. some of the guides and seats were not exactly aligned. could have been defective and like that from new, or maybe the casting distorted from heat and pressure or bad head bolt torques or maybe all of these.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD 110k miles - working on tb, rockers, arp, camshafts
1985 Mitsubishi Mighty Max 2.0 liter
1989 Vanagon GL


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:11 pm 
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minnisp wrote:
they were able to grind my existing seats and we reused the existing springs. you should get the guide seals too (machinist said to change them and they're not very expensive). i changed all of the valves and glad i did. some of the guides and seats were not exactly aligned. could have been defective and like that from new, or maybe the casting distorted from heat and pressure or bad head bolt torques or maybe all of these.

FYI: They make shims to place under the valve springs to take up the clearance lost when regrinding the valve seats. We used them extensively on every head we did a valve job on when I worked in a mechanine shop! The shims are super cheap!!! :wink:

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/Hayden HD clutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:50 pm 
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This engine has hydraulic lifters and the springs are very strong, so I don't think it would need shims... but that is a lot more than most people think about. I think the shims would be more important on mechanical lifters rather than this design.


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Email (button below) is preferred to PM
Over 70 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Just remember: Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:19 pm 
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geordi wrote:
This engine has hydraulic lifters and the springs are very strong, so I don't think it would need shims... but that is a lot more than most people think about. I think the shims would be more important on mechanical lifters rather than this design.

Type of lifters has nothing to do with it! :roll:
It is all about correct spring tension on the valves!!! In an automotive machine shop, they are used on all types of heads when performing a valve job regardless of the type of lifter, head design, overhead valve, overhead cam, etc...

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/Hayden HD clutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:17 pm 
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Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
Considering that the springs are compressed more than 3/8" from zero pressure and that even if you somehow installed the seats all the way up in their wells... you still wouldn't have reduced the springs to an uncompressed state.

I do not believe that shims on the springs would be needed in this design if the valve position was altered by grounding. If anything, the preliminary results of the testing suggests that the springs may be too strong if the valves are failing because of cycling fatigue.


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Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
Provider of high quality CRD service in your driveway.
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email (button below) is preferred to PM
Over 70 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Just remember: Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Have you changed your timing belt, rockers, added
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:32 pm 
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geordi wrote:
Considering that the springs are compressed more than 3/8" from zero pressure and that even if you somehow installed the seats all the way up in their wells... you still wouldn't have reduced the springs to an uncompressed state.
I do not believe that shims on the springs would be needed in this design if the valve position was altered by grounding. If anything, the preliminary results of the testing suggests that the springs may be too strong if the valves are failing because of cycling fatigue.

The shims are not that thick! I think you are beating a dead horse here! :roll:

_________________
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/Hayden HD clutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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