I am doing some pre purchase research....

Lasernomad · **Joined:** Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:40 am **Posts:** 2

So first off hi, I am new here.
I am looking to take my leather shop shove it into a bus and become a full time nomad. So what does that have to do with CRD liberties?
I am going to take the next two years to transition into being a full time nomad. Which means for starters learning the art fair circuit. My plan is to throw a RTT on top of a 4wd vehicle and fill the back with my wares (hand made bags belts and shoes, along with a canopy table or two, chairs, and my dog) and go sell at markets all while sleeping on the cheap in the national forests. Well I currently have a 01 montero sport, that I hate, I dont want to make it my tow vehicle once I go full nomad, hell I dont want to keep for another year. So my thought was is there a Toad (the term for an RVer's towed vehicle) that will work for my goals of building a client base and familiarity with the art show sales racket before I plan on dragging it along behind an old greyhound bus. Take these 2 years to pay down the debt on the rig before launching end of year 3.

After doing some reading and some thinking I have narrowed down my list of possible good toads/ sales machines to:
05-06 Liberty CRD
07-08 Cherokee CRD
I really like the idea of a CRD toad as I will need to get diesel for the bus anyways
Toyota truck/ 4runner
other Japanese truck/suv

My concerns are:
Is there enough room in a Liberty for everything I want to take and do?
How hard will it be to find CRD mechanics on the move?
What does one look at mechanically when buying a CRD?
Can the Cherokee be tuned to get better mileage?
What is the weight difference and cargo difference between the Liberty and Cherokee?
How does one check the timing belt when looking at a perspective CRD?
Am I overthinking it?
Am I underthinking it?

Please help, looking for any and all advice. I have wandered away from the beaten path and looking for other weirdos and their experiences.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:48 am

PM Sent

mrhemi · **Joined:** Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:46 am **Posts:** 180

Others will respond with the pitfalls and trials of keeping a Liberty CRD as your daily driver. But I can respond to the size question. My career takes me to opposite sides of North America and the in between for projects. I have this mobilization / demobilization down to a science. The Liberty has proven to be the best vehicle yet for that task. I pack enough gear into it to outfit a one bedroom apartment for when I get to site. It is also a vehicle that has taken me through all kinds of inclement weather in the process. There is usually enough room left to bring home treasures I accumulate along the way. If you get a CRD Liberty and complete all of the mods to make it reliable, then ad a GDE Eco Tune or equivalent it will be quite economical to operate. I may be a glutton for punishment, I own two of them, but I take care of the maintenance myself. Good luck in your endevours.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:16 am

The Jeep CRD is really is not a vehicle for everyone! :roll:

It can be a fun, economical vehicle to own and drive, but it takes mechanical skills, time and money to get to that point!

Read through this thread and hopefully it will help in your decision.
Thinking about getting a CRD.....
> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85960

Any thoughts or questions after reviewing the thread, just ask!

:SOMBRERO:

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:00 pm

Lasernomad wrote:

So first off hi, I am new here.
I am looking to take my leather shop shove it into a bus and become a full time nomad. So what does that have to do with CRD liberties?
I am going to take the next two years to transition into being a full time nomad. Which means for starters learning the art fair circuit. My plan is to throw a RTT on top of a 4wd vehicle and fill the back with my wares (hand made bags belts and shoes, along with a canopy table or two, chairs, and my dog) and go sell at markets all while sleeping on the cheap in the national forests. Well I currently have a 01 montero sport, that I hate, I dont want to make it my tow vehicle once I go full nomad, hell I dont want to keep for another year. So my thought was is there a Toad (the term for an RVer's towed vehicle) that will work for my goals of building a client base and familiarity with the art show sales racket before I plan on dragging it along behind an old greyhound bus. Take these 2 years to pay down the debt on the rig before launching end of year 3.

After doing some reading and some thinking I have narrowed down my list of possible good toads/ sales machines to:
05-06 Liberty CRD
07-08 Cherokee CRD
I really like the idea of a CRD toad as I will need to get diesel for the bus anyways
Toyota truck/ 4runner
other Japanese truck/suv

My concerns are:
Is there enough room in a Liberty for everything I want to take and do?
How hard will it be to find CRD mechanics on the move?
What does one look at mechanically when buying a CRD?
Can the Cherokee be tuned to get better mileage?
What is the weight difference and cargo difference between the Liberty and Cherokee?
How does one check the timing belt when looking at a perspective CRD?
Am I overthinking it?
Am I underthinking it?

Please help, looking for any and all advice. I have wandered away from the beaten path and looking for other weirdos and their experiences.

You are NOT overthinking. These Liberty CRDs are a hobby for most of us as they need TLC. Mine has never left me stranded but I have put a lot of work into getting it to run well. I dont think there is a great way to check the timing belt other than receipts from the job. Mechanics are tough to find but I have never tried. I do my own work.

The Grand Cherokee isnt really any larger than the Liberty in terms of interior space, although I think they may weigh a little more. The 3.0 CRD is quite a bit more powerful, especially tuned, but does have slightly lower MPG from what I have seen. They were also quite a bit more expensive when I was looking before I bought my Liberty. It was like $20000+ for a lower miles GC CRD vs low to mid teens for a low miles liberty CRD.

I think the GC CRDs do have their own set of issues and things to watch out for just like the Liberty CRD.

To be honest, if you dont care about the diesel torque and drivability and are fine with a gas V6, look at the Toyotas. You wont save money by driving ones of these diesels because you end up dropping so much to get them running well. Just off the top of my head; new CAC hoses(which I got for a steal), in-tank lift pump, new fuel filter head, new intake elbow, new MAP, new MAF, Weeks elbow, new boost control solenoid are just a few things I had to do. They probably cost me $1000 for all of that. That doesnt even include the rocker arms I replaced(that didnt need to be), and the ARP head studs I put in when I did my timing belt as preventative maintenance. That was another $6-700 I believe. So I am probably $1700 - $2000 in the hole on stuff just to make the jeep run like it should and that is all before 100k miles.

But the MPG's are great

. I think at one point when diesel was about 40-50 cents more than 87 octane, the Jeep was barely cheaper to drive than my Ecoboost F150 that was averaging 17-18 mpg.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:56 pm

mass-hole wrote:

You are NOT overthinking. These Liberty CRDs are a hobby for most of us as they need TLC. Mine has never left me stranded but I have put a lot of work into getting it to run well. I dont think there is a great way to check the timing belt other than receipts from the job. Mechanics are tough to find but I have never tried. I do my own work.
The Grand Cherokee isnt really any larger than the Liberty in terms of interior space, although I think they may weigh a little more. The 3.0 CRD is quite a bit more powerful, especially tuned, but does have slightly lower MPG from what I have seen. They were also quite a bit more expensive when I was looking before I bought my Liberty. It was like $20000+ for a lower miles GC CRD vs low to mid teens for a low miles liberty CRD.
I think the GC CRDs do have their own set of issues and things to watch out for just like the Liberty CRD.
To be honest, if you dont care about the diesel torque and drivability and are fine with a gas V6, look at the Toyotas. You wont save money by driving ones of these diesels because you end up dropping so much to get them running well. Just off the top of my head; new CAC hoses(which I got for a steal), in-tank lift pump, new fuel filter head, new intake elbow, new MAP, new MAF, Weeks elbow, new boost control solenoid are just a few things I had to do. They probably cost me $1000 for all of that. That doesnt even include the rocker arms I replaced(that didnt need to be), and the ARP head studs I put in when I did my timing belt as preventative maintenance. That was another $6-700 I believe. So I am probably $1700 - $2000 in the hole on stuff just to make the jeep run like it should and that is all before 100k miles.
But the MPG's are great

. I think at one point when diesel was about 40-50 cents more than 87 octane, the Jeep was barely cheaper to drive than my Ecoboost F150 that was averaging 17-18 mpg.

X2, and he did not even get into all the non-engine stuff like suspension and running gear items which can be another 1k or better.... :roll:

krautastic · **Joined:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:52 pm **Posts:** 33

Get the 4runner (4th gen) and don't look back. More space, more reliable, more comfortable. More money, but, that's money you'd be spending getting the liberty running. Supposedly the mercedes powered cherokees are pretty awesome, but they don't have any more mpg's than a 4runner. And, when they break its mercedes expensive. Heck, I've heard the hemi cherokees are more reliable and cheaper to operate and pretty equivalent mpg. Also, neither the liberty or the cherokee could let a full size adult sleep in them, you might be able to in the 4runner.

Anyway, I asked 2 months ago whether a liberty is a viable used vehicle, bought one, and I am currently on day 3 of replacing the headgasket ($1000 in parts later). I am very mechanically inclined, and this is a long repair job. There's reasons I want this thing, but, I probably would've been better off with a 4runner as well. The liberty is quirky. And quirky is that last thing you want when you're driving around the world/country. Can you imagine having a random no-start condition or a rocker fail on you in the middle of one of these forests? You could get stranded and then have almost no luck getting the vehicle fixed for a reasonable price.

Another car to consider is a lexus lx470, which is built on the landcruiser platform, but not as well known as the landcruiser so you can actually get them cheaper. Those are quite large and very reliable.

Another vehicle to consider would be a ford transit or any other type of van you could convert the back.

Another reason to not consider liberty: your cargo list. It simply will not fit comfortably. The leg room front and rear on these is terrible, so fitting a dog and all your gear will be hard. Oh, and, the liberty has a pretty terrible ride quality. One that I would not want to experience on a coast to coast tour of the US.

I'd say subaru, you'd probably have good luck with one, but, they are not as indestructable as the 4runners.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:30 pm

Back in Dec 14, I took my wife, daughter, and dog on a cross country trip from FL to CA and back.
Had a few issues with starting in freezing temperatures.
A few random stalling events.
And my Weeks elbow popped off a couple times.

Nothing that ever left us stranded waiting for help. I was always able to get it moving again.

If you want something that you can just startup and drive without any worries, get a Toyota.
Myself, I love my CRD and wouldn't trade it for anything. I even bought one for my wife.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:54 pm

krautastic wrote:

Get the 4runner (4th gen) and don't look back. More space, more reliable, more comfortable. More money, but, that's money you'd be spending getting the liberty running. Supposedly the mercedes powered cherokees are pretty awesome, but they don't have any more mpg's than a 4runner. And, when they break its mercedes expensive. Heck, I've heard the hemi cherokees are more reliable and cheaper to operate and pretty equivalent mpg. Also, neither the liberty or the cherokee could let a full size adult sleep in them, you might be able to in the 4runner.

Anyway, I asked 2 months ago whether a liberty is a viable used vehicle, bought one, and I am currently on day 3 of replacing the headgasket ($1000 in parts later). I am very mechanically inclined, and this is a long repair job. There's reasons I want this thing, but, I probably would've been better off with a 4runner as well. The liberty is quirky. And quirky is that last thing you want when you're driving around the world/country. Can you imagine having a random no-start condition or a rocker fail on you in the middle of one of these forests? You could get stranded and then have almost no luck getting the vehicle fixed for a reasonable price.

Another car to consider is a lexus lx470, which is built on the landcruiser platform, but not as well known as the landcruiser so you can actually get them cheaper. Those are quite large and very reliable.

Another vehicle to consider would be a ford transit or any other type of van you could convert the back.

Another reason to not consider liberty: your cargo list. It simply will not fit comfortably. The leg room front and rear on these is terrible, so fitting a dog and all your gear will be hard. Oh, and, the liberty has a pretty terrible ride quality. One that I would not want to experience on a coast to coast tour of the US.

I'd say subaru, you'd probably have good luck with one, but, they are not as indestructable as the 4runners.

Good call on the LX470. They also have the GX470 which is a 4runner but has the 4.7 V8 standard and rear air suspension. My cousin has had 2 of them, the first was an 05 which he traded on an 07 or 08 to get the bluetooth and other updates. His GX470's do have a 3rd row seat but they are TIGHT. I believe he is running 33's on the stock suspension.

I have owned 2 subarus and know a lot of other folks with them, and I would not consider them a reliable vehicle. Head gaskets like to go, valve cover gaskets seem to be clockwork on the NA 2.5L. My buddy had a 100% stock 2011 WRX which had its heads go at 85k miles. My aunts current gen Forester XT blew a transmission shortly after they bought it. I had a 2007 Legacy GT and 2009 Legacy 2.5i and the whole time I owned them I was waiting for them to blow up. The 2009 had the valve cover gaskets fail around 90k which took out the plugs and wires causing it to misfire. This required me unbolting the engine mounts and lifting it up so that the covers could be removed(boxer so the wheel wells were in the way). I also had another oil leak, which I originally thought was the valve cover, but continued after I replaced that and I believe was coming from the head gasket.

Lasernomad · **Joined:** Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:40 am **Posts:** 2

Thanks for the info, I think what my next step will be is join all the RV forums and look at what makes a good toad then see where they overlap with backroad-ability.

Bushman5 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:05 am **Posts:** 276

For the amount of money (and still increasing every day) I have put into this thing , I could have bought a brand new diesel truck .

All the vehicles I have ever owned and that is a LOT , I have never had to do so many repairs and upgrades , just to get a half decent running vehicle.

APC9199 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:01 pm

Bushman5 wrote:

For the amount of money (and still increasing every day) I have put into this thing , I could have bought a brand new diesel truck .

All the vehicles I have ever owned and that is a LOT , I have never had to do so many repairs and upgrades , just to get a half decent running vehicle.

Given that fact (I am in the same boat), how do you rate the vehicle in terms of driveability? I'm not sure it's the best vehicle regardless, but in my opinion it is hard to find a vehicle that can tow, get relatively good mileage, has oodles of torque and CAN be affordable to own once the big issues have been taken care of. There have been numerous well cared for CRD's for sale lately with fresh top-end builds and most of the reliability issues already addressed for pretty reasonable prices. I assume the previous owners are taking a hit selling these vehicles but it can be a good deal for the buyer.

I really think some kind of light utility van would be best for the OP's purposes, but I wouldn't completely discount the CRD.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:01 pm

Bushman5 wrote:

For the amount of money (and still increasing every day) I have put into this thing , I could have bought a brand new diesel truck .

All the vehicles I have ever owned and that is a LOT , I have never had to do so many repairs and upgrades , just to get a half decent running vehicle.

Yeah, but now that you have committed there is no going back lol. You gotta ride it out. I am at the point though where i am not doing any more major preventive maintenance and if something catastrophic happens I'll move on. The diesels cool but not that cool.

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I am doing some pre purchase research....

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