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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:02 pm 
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hgrimberg wrote:
papaindigo wrote:
IMHO you should replace both LBJs but that's just me. You appear to have a 06 Jeep KJ CRD so what you ordered should fit as Libertry = N. America model name and Cherokee = not N. America model name.

Be careful when replacing as it's apparently easy to break front wheel speed sensor(s)


Hopefully I didn't break the sensor when the LBJ broke yesterday.
As for the part, my doubt comes due to the different part number between the one for the North American Liberty and the part number for the non-North American Cherokee.


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If you broke the sensor, no huge issue. The front wheel bearings come with them, you need to remove the bearings to press out and in the new LBJ anyhow. Just get a new Front wheel bearing, make sure you buy one with the sensor and the wire. Prices seem to range from $40 to $150 over here. I would likely buy one in the $70-80 range if needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:18 pm 
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papaindigo wrote:
IMHO you should replace both LBJs but that's just me. You appear to have a 06 Jeep KJ CRD so what you ordered should fit as Libertry = N. America model name and Cherokee = not N. America model name.

Be careful when replacing as it's apparently easy to break front wheel speed sensor(s)

X2,
replace both LBJ's, it is not worth the risk not to! :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:21 pm 
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cerich wrote:
My approach to this is pretty simple, they come in pairs, they wear out and it's more a routine maint issue that it should be a "repair" issue (you have a repair issue obviously). They aren't super expensive, and cheap compared to the potential damage if they break(you got lucky).

To do one means I have all the tools out or rented (ball joint press and the 35mm socket. torque wrench aren't really something most non mechanic or Hobby types will have on hand) so if doing one, may as well take the extra hour and do the other.

I anticipated that my Tie Rods may be getting along, I was surprised however how far along they were because my steering was quite tight. When I took the tire/wheel off yesterday to start work on the LBJ's I wasn't "sure", even with parts on hand, I would do the tie rods, and saw that one side the tie rod boot was weather torn I decided to change them out, when I actually grabbed it and moved it I was "wtf!" because it moved far too easily and had play. The Tie Rods inner and outer will add maybe 45 mins to you LBJ job (for someone that has never done before, about 20 for one that has)and can be done easily under $60 or so using good quality parts. Worth it IMHO.

All this leads to the upper ball joints that are on the control arms. Check them while there and replace if needed, that will add another hour, maybe two tops and if you get parts online $100 or so, local auto store about $200.

Having the LBJ's, Upper Control arms/BJ and Tie rods inner and outer done at the shop will cost you $700-1200 to get done. With a 6 hour day available you can get it done and save yourself easily $500-800.

You can even buy the tools and have them on hand for next time around. I got the 35mm socket in a set from harborfreight using a 20% off coupon for $32 (why not get the set when a single 35mm socket is gonan run $20 alone)to do the job (yesterday was my first shot at the jeeps, last time was recall so didn't do and don't need the 35mm socket on my pickup).https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-dri ... 62842.html
The ball joint press you can rent free at a auto shop, they just take a deposit. I have one I got on ebay a couple years ago that is fine for my very occasional use . here is the set and it's fine http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-IN-1-BALL-JOI ... Sw3v5Yr9ue)

For this application a harbor Freight torque wrench is fine. $20. $16 if you buy with a 20% coupon (I bring my daughter when I want to buy two things and use the 20% HF coupons, she buys one and I buy the other.. and also normally get a tape measure or something like with their "free with any purchase coupon" for.

Anyhow, so specialty tools for the job you can get for just under $100, or you can rent them for free at the local auto place (I like having the tools on hand, then again I maintain 3 cars and a mower and live in the country so a hour round trip to the auto place to rent something is annoying, plus I am a man and I like owning tools I don't use often..LOL

Anyhow, also do your front brakes when you are in there, you need to take them apart and back together anyhow and unless they are more than half life left, brake pads you can get decent ceramics for less than $30... (I get the rockauto clearance emails so when I see stuff like that that are decent quality I tend to get them in anticipation of using..the ceramic pads I am putting on while I did this job cost me all of $9 and a few inches of shelf space in the garage the last 8-9 months. My rotors are still good so they aren't getting changed.

You WILL have to get the alignment done after you are finished. that will cost you $100 or so. When i buy a new vehicle, first tire change I buy the Lifetime alignment at the local Tires Plus place, then when I do this job i show up and have them align it after.. sometimes I get the eye roll, others they cheerfully do it, either way it gets done and I save myself a grand doing a complete (almost) refresh of the front end. That grand can pay for a family stay at the beach or just keep it off the credit card if the budget is tighter. My thought process on cars is that I generally buy a 2 year old car (jeep i got new on lot after it sat there for 10 months, 22k out the door sticker was 29) with less than 36k on it. Normally save about 40% off new price that way, then I find a brand warranty online to 100k normally for $700 or so versus the 2k the dealer locally sells it for and the first 100K are covered. Keep the vehicle for at least 12 years, the last 6 or so there is no warranty but will tackle most work myself unless it involves something like a transmission rebuilt. I make sure I do all the maint. religiously as that save s a fortune. The money I have saved doing it this way will literally allow me to buy the replacement vehicle for cash..so I never have a car payment. Of course only reason I can do this is I don't care what people think about what I drive, don't feel need to buy new and am willing to do the maint and repairs myself. I must say, it's darn easy now with Youtube and forums like this versus the old pre internet days of a Clymers manual when i was doing repairs because I was broke.


EDIT_ I just saw you were in EU, so Harbor freight tips don't apply, however you can modify most of these tips for use there I am sure, especially with the internet


When you say that replacing the LBJ's could cost me between 700-1200, you mean the 2 in the front or just one?


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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:19 pm 
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cerich wrote:
My approach to this is pretty simple, they come in pairs, they wear out and it's more a routine maint issue that it should be a "repair" issue (you have a repair issue obviously). They aren't super expensive, and cheap compared to the potential damage if they break(you got lucky).

To do one means I have all the tools out or rented (ball joint press and the 35mm socket. torque wrench aren't really something most non mechanic or Hobby types will have on hand) so if doing one, may as well take the extra hour and do the other.

I anticipated that my Tie Rods may be getting along, I was surprised however how far along they were because my steering was quite tight. When I took the tire/wheel off yesterday to start work on the LBJ's I wasn't "sure", even with parts on hand, I would do the tie rods, and saw that one side the tie rod boot was weather torn I decided to change them out, when I actually grabbed it and moved it I was "wtf!" because it moved far too easily and had play. The Tie Rods inner and outer will add maybe 45 mins to you LBJ job (for someone that has never done before, about 20 for one that has)and can be done easily under $60 or so using good quality parts. Worth it IMHO.

All this leads to the upper ball joints that are on the control arms. Check them while there and replace if needed, that will add another hour, maybe two tops and if you get parts online $100 or so, local auto store about $200.

Having the LBJ's, Upper Control arms/BJ and Tie rods inner and outer done at the shop will cost you $700-1200 to get done. With a 6 hour day available you can get it done and save yourself easily $500-800.

You can even buy the tools and have them on hand for next time around. I got the 35mm socket in a set from harborfreight using a 20% off coupon for $32 (why not get the set when a single 35mm socket is gonan run $20 alone)to do the job (yesterday was my first shot at the jeeps, last time was recall so didn't do and don't need the 35mm socket on my pickup).https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-dri ... 62842.html
The ball joint press you can rent free at a auto shop, they just take a deposit. I have one I got on ebay a couple years ago that is fine for my very occasional use . here is the set and it's fine http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-IN-1-BALL-JOI ... Sw3v5Yr9ue)

For this application a harbor Freight torque wrench is fine. $20. $16 if you buy with a 20% coupon (I bring my daughter when I want to buy two things and use the 20% HF coupons, she buys one and I buy the other.. and also normally get a tape measure or something like with their "free with any purchase coupon" for.

Anyhow, so specialty tools for the job you can get for just under $100, or you can rent them for free at the local auto place (I like having the tools on hand, then again I maintain 3 cars and a mower and live in the country so a hour round trip to the auto place to rent something is annoying, plus I am a man and I like owning tools I don't use often..LOL

Anyhow, also do your front brakes when you are in there, you need to take them apart and back together anyhow and unless they are more than half life left, brake pads you can get decent ceramics for less than $30... (I get the rockauto clearance emails so when I see stuff like that that are decent quality I tend to get them in anticipation of using..the ceramic pads I am putting on while I did this job cost me all of $9 and a few inches of shelf space in the garage the last 8-9 months. My rotors are still good so they aren't getting changed.

You WILL have to get the alignment done after you are finished. that will cost you $100 or so. When i buy a new vehicle, first tire change I buy the Lifetime alignment at the local Tires Plus place, then when I do this job i show up and have them align it after.. sometimes I get the eye roll, others they cheerfully do it, either way it gets done and I save myself a grand doing a complete (almost) refresh of the front end. That grand can pay for a family stay at the beach or just keep it off the credit card if the budget is tighter. My thought process on cars is that I generally buy a 2 year old car (jeep i got new on lot after it sat there for 10 months, 22k out the door sticker was 29) with less than 36k on it. Normally save about 40% off new price that way, then I find a brand warranty online to 100k normally for $700 or so versus the 2k the dealer locally sells it for and the first 100K are covered. Keep the vehicle for at least 12 years, the last 6 or so there is no warranty but will tackle most work myself unless it involves something like a transmission rebuilt. I make sure I do all the maint. religiously as that save s a fortune. The money I have saved doing it this way will literally allow me to buy the replacement vehicle for cash..so I never have a car payment. Of course only reason I can do this is I don't care what people think about what I drive, don't feel need to buy new and am willing to do the maint and repairs myself. I must say, it's darn easy now with Youtube and forums like this versus the old pre internet days of a Clymers manual when i was doing repairs because I was broke.


EDIT_ I just saw you were in EU, so Harbor freight tips don't apply, however you can modify most of these tips for use there I am sure, especially with the internet

^^X4 Well said.

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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Just replace the ball joints and get it over with.

If those ball joints separate while driving, things will be much worse.

Lots has been written about how bad these ball joints are and how to fix them.

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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:52 pm 
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hgrimberg wrote:

When you say that replacing the LBJ's could cost me between 700-1200, you mean the 2 in the front or just one?


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if you have a mechanic at a shop replace BOTH Lower ball joints you are looking at likely about $600+. To get the lower, uppers and Tie Rods, front brake pads done will easily cost you $1200 at a shop.

I would bet that your uppers are ready to be replaced, and your tie rods a good chance. Even if they are still "good" the car is 11 years old, these items dynamic wear items. You'll be replacing them sooner rather than later even if you choose not to now. It's easier and less expensive to do it all now.

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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:09 am 
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hgrimberg wrote:
papaindigo wrote:
Left/right or both; partial turn or full lock turn; what speed? Timing belt is not a possibility as it's not "sensitive" to turning. BUT I'm curious how you checked the tension of the timing belt without pulling the serpentine belt, etc and timing belt cover off the engine?


It makes the noise at every speed, specially at low speed and when I hit a bump and it happens when I turn in both directions, no matter which. My mechanic is very hesitant on where the noise is coming from. He just detected that one of the tie rod ends is a bit deteriorated and that it could be the cause of the noise. He is proposing me to replace it. Could this be the cause?


I was getting a metallic knock when I turned the wheel left or right at one time, it turned out to be the top nut on the rubber engine mount was loose.

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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:18 pm 
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I am replacing the Lower ball joints now and while doing it, the mechanic broke the ABS sensor. He has a spare ABS sensor and wire fron a Grand Cherokee that is a little shorter so it can't be placed on the same exact position than the original one. Other than the length of the wire, it is exactly the same. Can I place it on behind the suspension coil instead of through the front as it was originally? It is the only way it works.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:25 pm 
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The green line is where the original wire goes. The red line is where we want to make it go considering our Grand Cherokee ABS sensor wire is shorter than the one for the Liberty (mine is a Liberty) and this way is the only way to make it fit:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:25 pm 
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now the ABS light on the dashboard showed up


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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:57 pm 
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either the sensor wire wasn't the same other than length OR the sensor wire rubbed on the rotor and it failed.

I would get another sensor wire if you can get one by itself, or as I suggested earlier, just get a new bearing hub that comes with one.

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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:58 pm 
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if you are paying the mechanic to do the work, he broke it, he should pay to fix it.

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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:21 am 
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It ended up being connected as in this photo I took but then the ABS light showed up in the dashboard. So somehow the ECU is detecting that this wire was for the Grand Cherokee maybe because it senses it is shorter, weird that it can detect it is shorter because that is the only difference I see: Image
And this was the broken sensor: Image


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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:05 am 
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cerich wrote:
if you are paying the mechanic to do the work, he broke it, he should pay to fix it.

Well... he broke it because the plastic was old and sticked to the other part...


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 Post subject: Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:12 am 
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hgrimberg wrote:
cerich wrote:
if you are paying the mechanic to do the work, he broke it, he should pay to fix it.

Well... he broke it because the plastic was old and sticked to the other part...


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Agreed they break very easy when the rust expands and tightens them into the insert hole. He did not break it.

So did you find the source of the noise, or still trial and error?

Is the noise down by your feet?

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