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Noise every time I turn the wheel
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Author:  hgrimberg [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Noise every time I turn the wheel
When I turn the wheel to make a turn I hear a rubbing steel noise. What could it be? I already checked the tension of the timing belt and it is ok.


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Author:  papaindigo [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
Left/right or both; partial turn or full lock turn; what speed? Timing belt is not a possibility as it's not "sensitive" to turning. BUT I'm curious how you checked the tension of the timing belt without pulling the serpentine belt, etc and timing belt cover off the engine?
Author:  APC9199 [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
I suggest reading through the "Driveline noise thread" from beginning to end. Many of the usual culprits have been covered there...and there are many of them! These things can make all kinds of sounds from all different areas of the vehicle. The noises can be very difficult to track down. I, for example, have spent the last year chasing down 4 or 5 different noises replacing most of the suspension components along the way and STILL have an annoying noise that I can't find. Reading through that thread will help you understand where noises typically come from and will give you insight into future noises.
Author:  hgrimberg [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
papaindigo wrote:
Left/right or both; partial turn or full lock turn; what speed? Timing belt is not a possibility as it's not "sensitive" to turning. BUT I'm curious how you checked the tension of the timing belt without pulling the serpentine belt, etc and timing belt cover off the engine?


It makes the noise at every speed, specially at low speed and when I hit a bump and it happens when I turn in both directions, no matter which. My mechanic is very hesitant on where the noise is coming from. He just detected that one of the tie rod ends is a bit deteriorated and that it could be the cause of the noise. He is proposing me to replace it. Could this be the cause?
Author:  cerich [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
yes

could also be LBJ

could be a dozen things but Tie rods (inner and outer) and LBJ are the first ones I would and am thinking and would check first.

But seriously, a mechanic should be able to actually diagnose a bad tie rod pretty quickly and easily, more so than folks guessing based on your posts online.
Author:  hgrimberg [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
cerich wrote:
yes

could also be LBJ

could be a dozen things but Tie rods (inner and outer) and LBJ are the first ones I would and am thinking and would check first.

But seriously, a mechanic should be able to actually diagnose a bad tie rod pretty quickly and easily, more so than folks guessing based on your posts online.


What is a LBJ? Thank you
Author:  cerich [ Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
hgrimberg wrote:
cerich wrote:
yes

could also be LBJ

could be a dozen things but Tie rods (inner and outer) and LBJ are the first ones I would and am thinking and would check first.

But seriously, a mechanic should be able to actually diagnose a bad tie rod pretty quickly and easily, more so than folks guessing based on your posts online.


What is a LBJ? Thank you


Lower ball Joint. Also after LBJ and Inner and Outer Tie rods you have the upper ball Joint and control arms (normally replaced as a unit, the upper control arm with ball joint installed already) is a possibility.

I would as I said, lean to the Tie rod or the LBJ, in particular as the LBJ had a recall on the Liberty at one time, they get too warm and fail earlier than most. Chrysler is only covering them one time however and added a poor design heat shield.

Check your VIN and if the LBJ recall is still open on your CRD, go get it done. Then if you still have a sound.. most likely your mechanic is right (actually he likely is anyhow having seen the vehicle)

Don't ignore this forever, because if a tie rod breaks, you'll lose steering and could die. If a LBJ fails, you'll lose control of the vehicle as well...and possibly die
Author:  hgrimberg [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
cerich wrote:
hgrimberg wrote:
cerich wrote:
yes

could also be LBJ

could be a dozen things but Tie rods (inner and outer) and LBJ are the first ones I would and am thinking and would check first.

But seriously, a mechanic should be able to actually diagnose a bad tie rod pretty quickly and easily, more so than folks guessing based on your posts online.


What is a LBJ? Thank you


Lower ball Joint. Also after LBJ and Inner and Outer Tie rods you have the upper ball Joint and control arms (normally replaced as a unit, the upper control arm with ball joint installed already) is a possibility.

I would as I said, lean to the Tie rod or the LBJ, in particular as the LBJ had a recall on the Liberty at one time, they get too warm and fail earlier than most. Chrysler is only covering them one time however and added a poor design heat shield.

Check your VIN and if the LBJ recall is still open on your CRD, go get it done. Then if you still have a sound.. most likely your mechanic is right (actually he likely is anyhow having seen the vehicle)

Don't ignore this forever, because if a tie rod breaks, you'll lose steering and could die. If a LBJ fails, you'll lose control of the vehicle as well...and possibly die


My mechanic says this part is a bit loose. Is this the tie rod or the LBJ?
Image


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Author:  geordi [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
That is the lower ball joint.
Author:  hgrimberg [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
My mechanic told it was that part on the image above and he said it was the one on the right side.
I am now hesitant if it is the tie rod or the lower ball joint. I don't understand the differences between the 2.
The LBJ is this one: http://www.idparts.com/ball-joint-lower ... -2790.html
And then the Tie rod end is this one: http://www.idparts.com/tie-rod-end-righ ... -3781.html
So this tie rod end comes with the LBJ? Or these are 2 different parts? And if they are and what I should buy is the one for the right side, then it cannot be the LBJ cause that is equal for both sides since it is part of the tie rod end?
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
hgrimberg wrote:
My mechanic told it was that part on the image above and he said it was the one on the right side.
I am now hesitant if it is the tie rod or the lower ball joint. I don't understand the differences between the 2.
The LBJ is this one: http://www.idparts.com/ball-joint-lower ... -2790.html
And then the Tie rod end is this one: http://www.idparts.com/tie-rod-end-righ ... -3781.html
So this tie rod end comes with the LBJ? Or these are 2 different parts? And if they are and what I should buy is the one for the right side, then it cannot be the LBJ cause that is equal for both sides since it is part of the tie rod end?

I believe you are confused?
The part in the picture you shown originally is the lower ball joint in its mounted position on the knuckle. It is NOT the tie rod end.
The ball joint replacement part is the same, left and right, and the old one has to be pressed out and the new part pressed back into the knuckle..

this is the correct part:> http://www.idparts.com/ball-joint-lower ... -2790.html
It is part No. 6 on the image below.

Hope this helps? :wink:

:SOMBRERO:

Image
Author:  APC9199 [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
The lower ball joint is the same for both sides. It installs into the end of the lower control arm and creates a pivot point for the wheel hub (and wheel, when installed). It can be pressed out and a new one pressed back in. I recommend this one,

http://www.idparts.com/jeep-liberty-crd ... -6142.html

Because it is greasable, which will greatly extend its life. Also, I am of the mindset that if I'm going to do one side, I'm going to do both sides. Often times one will fail shortly after the other and if I'm doing the work I'll just do them both. If you're having a shop do the work, you might order two of them and just wait for the second one to go bad. Just be sure to check it often, if it fails completely your wheel will become partially detached from the vehicle!

The tie-rod end attaches to the end of the steering arm coming from the steering rack. It acts as the force to turn the wheel AROUND the upper and lower ball joints. They don't fail as often in my experience, but are just as dangerous if they do.

Make sure your mechanic diagnoses this problem accurately and replaces the appropriate parts. An alignment will probably be necessary after changing out some of these parts, so at least have it checked!
Author:  hgrimberg [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
APC9199 wrote:
The lower ball joint is the same for both sides. It installs into the end of the lower control arm and creates a pivot point for the wheel hub (and wheel, when installed). It can be pressed out and a new one pressed back in. I recommend this one,

http://www.idparts.com/jeep-liberty-crd ... -6142.html

Because it is greasable, which will greatly extend its life. Also, I am of the mindset that if I'm going to do one side, I'm going to do both sides. Often times one will fail shortly after the other and if I'm doing the work I'll just do them both. If you're having a shop do the work, you might order two of them and just wait for the second one to go bad. Just be sure to check it often, if it fails completely your wheel will become partially detached from the vehicle!

The tie-rod end attaches to the end of the steering arm coming from the steering rack. It acts as the force to turn the wheel AROUND the upper and lower ball joints. They don't fail as often in my experience, but are just as dangerous if they do.

Make sure your mechanic diagnoses this problem accurately and replaces the appropriate parts. An alignment will probably be necessary after changing out some of these parts, so at least have it checked!


Thanks!
Author:  hgrimberg [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
WWDiesel wrote:
hgrimberg wrote:
My mechanic told it was that part on the image above and he said it was the one on the right side.
I am now hesitant if it is the tie rod or the lower ball joint. I don't understand the differences between the 2.
The LBJ is this one: http://www.idparts.com/ball-joint-lower ... -2790.html
And then the Tie rod end is this one: http://www.idparts.com/tie-rod-end-righ ... -3781.html
So this tie rod end comes with the LBJ? Or these are 2 different parts? And if they are and what I should buy is the one for the right side, then it cannot be the LBJ cause that is equal for both sides since it is part of the tie rod end?

I believe you are confused?
The part in the picture you shown originally is the lower ball joint in its mounted position on the knuckle. It is NOT the tie rod end.
The ball joint replacement part is the same, left and right, and the old one has to be pressed out and the new part pressed back into the knuckle..

this is the correct part:> http://www.idparts.com/ball-joint-lower ... -2790.html
It is part No. 6 on the image below.

Hope this helps? :wink:

:SOMBRERO:

Image


Yes, I think that is the one, specially because my mechanic says it is loose. I don't know why he said it was the one on the right side...
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
Right and left are terms that depend on perspective.
Customarily, they refer to the vehicle as if you are sitting in a seat facing forward.
The Lower Ball Joint in the picture you supplied is indeed a problem.
If you look above the cast iron knuckle, and below the axle CV housing, The part you have circled has a flange around the upper edge.
When installed correctly, that flange should be pressed tightly against the top of the cast iron knuckle that it's pressed through.
That one appears to be 1/8" or more higher than it should be, and is approaching the point of hitting the rotating axle CV housing.
It was either installed incorrectly, or has indeed come loose. If it has been loose, chances are significant you may need to replace the cast iron hub the lower ball joint is pressed into, if that mounting point has been "wallowed out" from being loose.
Author:  cerich [ Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
It was pointed out by another that that ball joint looks like not pressed in correctly anymore. That said, you also don't have a heat shield installed which if the recall on the lower ball joints had been performed you would have one there.

You really should do as I suggested above and check to see if the recall is still outstanding on the Liberty, if it is you get new lower ball joints for free.

I am actually in the process of replacing my own LBJ that have about 70K on them and are doing exactly as you describe, I knew the boots had been pretty much gone the last 20K so was kinda waiting on them to start squeaking and or making a popping sound. They choose squeak when turning. Anyhow, I pulled the tire today and started the disassembly to get the LBJ out and the uppers are also shot, as are the tire rods inner and outer. I can't complain I guess as I got 150K out of the uppers and lowers. So now the jeep shall sit on jacks in the driveway for a few extra days while I get in the Upper control arms with UBJ's. I actually had the tie rod inners and outers having seen them on a clearance sale at rock auto a few months ago and got them along with some parts I got for my old 2000 mazda B2500 with almost 300K on her (think Ford ranger with a mazda nameplate). It must be Suspension summer here for me, two weeks ago I redid the LBJ, Upper Control Arms, tie Rods inner and outer and front brakes on the Mazda. i must say there is sure a LOT more room to get at things with the mazda. I had been in no rush (but had the parts) to do the Mazda in the summer GA heat because I could drive the Jeep, then the Jeep started to squeak so it was time to do the mazda..now it's time to do the jeep. I really prefer spring and fall vehicle repair here in central Georgia..just saying.

After the jeep I need to change out the very slow seep oil pan gasket on my wife's 2006 Town and Country.. LOL. I actually only half enjoy this stuff, but enjoy being cheap and doing it myself AND not having a car payment. Then again, I still get off on the novelty of not having the vehicles rust out from under me (born and raised in Canada where you stop fixing cars because the frames and or body is too rotted to repair versus mechanical issues. LOL
Author:  hgrimberg [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
Ok, the right lower ball joint finally broke and it happened while driving slowly on a quiet road, so no fatalities. I really risked my life. I already ordered one on idparts and I was waiting for it. This is a picture of how it got broken:
Image
Now I am hesitant if to replace the other one in the left side as well that is this one on this photo I took:
Image
The picture I sent before in a previous post wasn't from my Libby.
I hope these LBJ I am buying from idparts fit my Libby since I own a European version of it, a Cherokee, not a Liberty and it has a different part number in Argentina.


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Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
IMHO you should replace both LBJs but that's just me. You appear to have a 06 Jeep KJ CRD so what you ordered should fit as Libertry = N. America model name and Cherokee = not N. America model name.

Be careful when replacing as it's apparently easy to break front wheel speed sensor(s)
Author:  hgrimberg [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
papaindigo wrote:
IMHO you should replace both LBJs but that's just me. You appear to have a 06 Jeep KJ CRD so what you ordered should fit as Libertry = N. America model name and Cherokee = not N. America model name.

Be careful when replacing as it's apparently easy to break front wheel speed sensor(s)


Hopefully I didn't break the sensor when the LBJ broke yesterday.
As for the part, my doubt comes due to the different part number between the one for the North American Liberty and the part number for the non-North American Cherokee.


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Author:  cerich [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Noise every time I turn the wheel
My approach to this is pretty simple, they come in pairs, they wear out and it's more a routine maint issue that it should be a "repair" issue (you have a repair issue obviously). They aren't super expensive, and cheap compared to the potential damage if they break(you got lucky).

To do one means I have all the tools out or rented (ball joint press and the 35mm socket. torque wrench aren't really something most non mechanic or Hobby types will have on hand) so if doing one, may as well take the extra hour and do the other.

I anticipated that my Tie Rods may be getting along, I was surprised however how far along they were because my steering was quite tight. When I took the tire/wheel off yesterday to start work on the LBJ's I wasn't "sure", even with parts on hand, I would do the tie rods, and saw that one side the tie rod boot was weather torn I decided to change them out, when I actually grabbed it and moved it I was "wtf!" because it moved far too easily and had play. The Tie Rods inner and outer will add maybe 45 mins to you LBJ job (for someone that has never done before, about 20 for one that has)and can be done easily under $60 or so using good quality parts. Worth it IMHO.

All this leads to the upper ball joints that are on the control arms. Check them while there and replace if needed, that will add another hour, maybe two tops and if you get parts online $100 or so, local auto store about $200.

Having the LBJ's, Upper Control arms/BJ and Tie rods inner and outer done at the shop will cost you $700-1200 to get done. With a 6 hour day available you can get it done and save yourself easily $500-800.

You can even buy the tools and have them on hand for next time around. I got the 35mm socket in a set from harborfreight using a 20% off coupon for $32 (why not get the set when a single 35mm socket is gonan run $20 alone)to do the job (yesterday was my first shot at the jeeps, last time was recall so didn't do and don't need the 35mm socket on my pickup).https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-dri ... 62842.html
The ball joint press you can rent free at a auto shop, they just take a deposit. I have one I got on ebay a couple years ago that is fine for my very occasional use . here is the set and it's fine http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-IN-1-BALL-JOI ... Sw3v5Yr9ue)

For this application a harbor Freight torque wrench is fine. $20. $16 if you buy with a 20% coupon (I bring my daughter when I want to buy two things and use the 20% HF coupons, she buys one and I buy the other.. and also normally get a tape measure or something like with their "free with any purchase coupon" for.

Anyhow, so specialty tools for the job you can get for just under $100, or you can rent them for free at the local auto place (I like having the tools on hand, then again I maintain 3 cars and a mower and live in the country so a hour round trip to the auto place to rent something is annoying, plus I am a man and I like owning tools I don't use often..LOL

Anyhow, also do your front brakes when you are in there, you need to take them apart and back together anyhow and unless they are more than half life left, brake pads you can get decent ceramics for less than $30... (I get the rockauto clearance emails so when I see stuff like that that are decent quality I tend to get them in anticipation of using..the ceramic pads I am putting on while I did this job cost me all of $9 and a few inches of shelf space in the garage the last 8-9 months. My rotors are still good so they aren't getting changed.

You WILL have to get the alignment done after you are finished. that will cost you $100 or so. When i buy a new vehicle, first tire change I buy the Lifetime alignment at the local Tires Plus place, then when I do this job i show up and have them align it after.. sometimes I get the eye roll, others they cheerfully do it, either way it gets done and I save myself a grand doing a complete (almost) refresh of the front end. That grand can pay for a family stay at the beach or just keep it off the credit card if the budget is tighter. My thought process on cars is that I generally buy a 2 year old car (jeep i got new on lot after it sat there for 10 months, 22k out the door sticker was 29) with less than 36k on it. Normally save about 40% off new price that way, then I find a brand warranty online to 100k normally for $700 or so versus the 2k the dealer locally sells it for and the first 100K are covered. Keep the vehicle for at least 12 years, the last 6 or so there is no warranty but will tackle most work myself unless it involves something like a transmission rebuilt. I make sure I do all the maint. religiously as that save s a fortune. The money I have saved doing it this way will literally allow me to buy the replacement vehicle for cash..so I never have a car payment. Of course only reason I can do this is I don't care what people think about what I drive, don't feel need to buy new and am willing to do the maint and repairs myself. I must say, it's darn easy now with Youtube and forums like this versus the old pre internet days of a Clymers manual when i was doing repairs because I was broke.


EDIT_ I just saw you were in EU, so Harbor freight tips don't apply, however you can modify most of these tips for use there I am sure, especially with the internet
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