ARP Stud gave up

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:18 am

X2, very good advice from DieselJeepLuvr!!!
There is no such thing as bringing the torque up too slow! :wink:

Having been a mechanic most of my life which included working in an automotive machine shop and building very high performance engines for drag racers for a spell, we were always very, very, careful to bring torque up on cylinder heads very slowly in small increments just as he explained!

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:41 pm

The new ARP studs have been installed and torqued properly ... all went well.

Thanks to all the good advice. Especially the one where at first you hand tighten the nuts with a 3/8" ratchet, then use the torque wrench ... And going slow is the key.

It took most of the morning to prep and install.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:56 pm

Great! Hope it runs like a new sewing machine and I know you do too! :wink:

Keep us posted as to progress....

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:01 pm

So how's it going Raff? Is she alive?

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:01 pm

Hey there Thermo ... no, not yet, I can only work on her on the weekends, but I am making progress.

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:36 pm

Good job, glad you decided to fix it yourself. Maybe you post a small video with the "results" when you're done. Good luck!

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

https://goo.gl/photos/74zz9Cr59MGkYmBp

Here is my modification to the EGR coolant hose, I rerouted it by cutting the 3/4" metal down pipe just enough to attach it to a 12" section of heater hose and then to the protruding nipple that comes out of the cylinder head. This nipple originally connected a heater hose that leads to the EGR set up on the right of it and which has now been deleted.

If the photo posting worked then look at the picture and notice the red heater hose.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:09 pm

The old girl is alive.... she lives again for the third time.

Having trouble posting a video clip.

Again, I have to give credit to Jim (Geordi) who walked me through the rebuilding process and took the time to respond to all my questions.

And this forum... without which I wouldn't have gotten myself so deeply involved in this project.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:41 pm

racertracer wrote:

https://goo.gl/photos/74zz9Cr59MGkYmBp

Here is my modification to the EGR coolant hose, I rerouted it by cutting the 3/4" metal down pipe just enough to attach it to a 12" section of heater hose and then to the protruding nipple that comes out of the cylinder head. This nipple originally connected a heater hose that leads to the EGR set up on the right of it and which has now been deleted.

If the photo posting worked then look at the picture and notice the red heater hose.

Link not working!
Glad you got it back together and running again!

Just very curious, why did you want leave the old center outlet of the head to the EGR in service since the flow bypasses the thermostat? I believe it may cause problems since it is dumping uncontrolled heat flux directly into the water pump suction which pumps it right back into the engine thus bypassing the thermostat and radiator totally.
When I removed my EGR junk, I blanked off this center outlet and done away the "Y" heater hose connection!

thermorex · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:24 pm

Woo-hoo!

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:57 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Just very curious, why did you want to leave the old center outlet of the head to the EGR in service since the flow bypasses the thermostat?

I believe it may cause problems since it is dumping uncontrolled heat flux directly into the water pump suction which pumps it right back into the engine thus bypassing the thermostat and radiator totally.

I don't believe that it will hurt anything... the coolant flow was designed to return back into the system in this way when it came out of the factory and when the EGR was active.

And ever since I installed the hose and rerouted the coolant flow in this way, I've noticed that the temperature gauge reaches operating temperature very quickly and this may be a good thing, especially if this works well during the cold winter months when heat is needed quickly and also to bring the engine up to optimal operating temperature FAST.

This is just a theory. I don't know, but I'll be testing and reporting back. I am sure that all the expert's on here will be chiming in, especially the Canadienne member.

Even so, I like to do my own testing and I believe that it may work.

Here's the video of it running .... it was still running a bit rough at this point but it smoothed itself out later on. Click on the YOUTUBE link here -> https://youtu.be/eFQs8yyLnto

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:47 pm

Sounds alright to me..
especially for having your trans dipstick popped up and waving around like it just don't care. :goink:

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:03 pm

racertracer wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

Just very curious, why did you want to leave the old center outlet of the head to the EGR in service since the flow bypasses the thermostat?

I believe it may cause problems since it is dumping uncontrolled heat flux directly into the water pump suction which pumps it right back into the engine thus bypassing the thermostat and radiator totally.

I don't believe that it will hurt anything... the coolant flow was designed to return back into the system in this way when it came out of the factory and when the EGR was active.
And ever since I installed the hose and rerouted the coolant flow in this way, I've noticed that the temperature gauge reaches operating temperature very quickly and this may be a good thing, especially if this works well during the cold winter months when heat is needed quickly and also to bring the engine up to optimal operating temperature FAST.
This is just a theory. I don't know, but I'll be testing and reporting back. I am sure that all the expert's on here will be chiming in, especially the Canadienne member.
Even so, I like to do my own testing and I believe that it may work.

I think the jury may be still out on this issue? Wish we knew more and had a more definitive information on which is better, leave the flow or cap it off! :roll:

I still lean toward the engine is better off without it, but I certainly am willing to listen to counter reasons why it is good if someone has them!

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:20 pm

I did something similar with my egr delete.
Kept that port on the side of the head open but I routed it directly to the heater.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:20 pm

I really doubt that it matters as long as the original head nipple is used, for these reasons:

The coolant exiting the head is cooler than after the coolant has absorbed the heat from the EGR junk. With the EGR Junk bypassed, the coolant will actually carry less heat back to the pump intake than originally.
And
The original nipple coming out of the head also acts as a flow restrictor because if the extremely small ID, (3mm?) and the 3cm length of that narrow passage. As long as that isn't changed, the pump can push no more fluid through to the return, than it could with all the junk hooked up.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:56 am

GordnadoCRD wrote:

I really doubt that it matters as long as the original head nipple is used, for these reasons:
The coolant exiting the head is cooler than after the coolant has absorbed the heat from the EGR junk. With the EGR Junk bypassed, the coolant will actually carry less heat back to the pump intake than originally.
And
The original nipple coming out of the head also acts as a flow restrictor because if the extremely small ID, (3mm?) and the 3cm length of that narrow passage. As long as that isn't changed, the pump can push no more fluid through to the return, than it could with all the junk hooked up.

Then totally deleting it makes a lot of sense to me if that flow is so small as you stated. Just do not see the need for having two (2) thermostat bypasses! And this one would never close!
Getting rid of any and all unnecessary plumbing and hoses that might possibly leak coolant in the future is always a GOOD thing! Plus makes the engine compartment cleaner... :mrgreen:

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:33 am

WWDiesel wrote:

Then totally deleting it makes a lot of sense to me if that flow is so small as you stated. Just do not see the need for having two (2) thermostat bypasses! And this one would never close!
Getting rid of any and all unnecessary plumbing and hoses that might possibly leak coolant in the future is always a GOOD thing! Plus makes the engine compartment cleaner... :mrgreen:

I agree, and mine is also plugged off for all the same reasons.
I just believe that if someone chooses to bypass it in the way described, it would be no worse, and would still be an improvement versus with the EGR junk plumbed in. Not optimal, but not harmful either.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:47 pm

GordnadoCRD wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

Then totally deleting it makes a lot of sense to me if that flow is so small as you stated. Just do not see the need for having two (2) thermostat bypasses! And this one would never close!
Getting rid of any and all unnecessary plumbing and hoses that might possibly leak coolant in the future is always a GOOD thing! Plus makes the engine compartment cleaner... :mrgreen:

I agree, and mine is also plugged off for all the same reasons.
I just believe that if someone chooses to bypass it in the way described, it would be no worse, and would still be an improvement versus with the EGR junk plumbed in. Not optimal, but not harmful either.

I have done jobs for people who wanted it both ways (not at the same time obviously) and I have heard nothing back about either option. I tend to think that "no news is good news" and either option is acceptable depending on how your thought process goes. Since the plug reduces the number of parts and potential leak points and does not measurably decrease the coolant flow through the head as all connected ports are smaller than the coolant outlet at the thermostat... I have mine plugged and I'm good either way. 5 feet of coolant hose (to be routed in a convenient way) or a plug, you are good either way as long as the EGR just goes away!

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:04 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

GordnadoCRD wrote:

That only holds true if the thread pitch is the same, and fine threads almost always have more tpi than coarse. it's works just like pushing something up a hill. It requires less force (torque) to move something up a 5% grade, than the force required to move the same something up a 10% grade. Or more relevantly stated, the equal force @limit applied to something weighing 100 lbs pushing up a 5% grade, will only be capable of pushing 50 lbs up a 10% grade.
Bolt diameter, Friction and Torque being equal, fine threads exert more clamping force than coarse threads.

IF you torque a 3/8 24 bolt(dry) to 30lbs-ft and torque a 3/8 16(dry) bolt to 30lbs-ft both are torqued to the exact same 30lbs-ft.Both have the same clamping force if both bolts have identical dimensions besides one being coarse thread and the other being fine thread.

What you are talking about is makes no sense when talking about bolts and torque.gearing for differentials your comments make sense but not torquing a bolt.

Wrong. Thread pitch makes a big difference. The torque is the same, but the finer thread means a lower pitch angle, which means that with the same torque, the finer thread is exerting MORE clamping force for the same torque. I was the guy who calculated the appropriate clamping force from the data that RacerTracer got from VM Motori, and in the event, what I found was that when torquing the studs, 140 FP was enough to crush the aluminum head at some bolt locations.

LMW

95Z28A4 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 am **Posts:** 297

LMWatBullRun wrote:

Wrong. Thread pitch makes a big difference. The torque is the same, but the finer thread means a lower pitch angle, which means that with the same torque, the finer thread is exerting MORE clamping force for the same torque. LMW

You are correct.

ARP Stud gave up

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