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 Post subject: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:06 pm 
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I know the genera principle but I am trying to figure something out. Earlier in the year I replaced my fan clutch hoping to fix my cooling issue. I then drove it up hill and it got warm like before (not quite as warm, but warm). I stopped and used a rolled up magazine to try and stop the fan while idling. I couldn't even slow it down so I assumed it was functioning perfectly and I had another problem. Started messing with it again today. At normal operating temp I tried the magazine again and couldn't even slow it down. Then I shut the engine off and I can free wheel the fan with no resistance at all. Should I be able to do that? If that clutch is engaged I think it shouldn't turn or at least have resistance. Am I thinking wrong?

I am considering the GM fan and fan clutch but I don't want to waste my money if my problem is something else. Does anybody have any diagnostic tips?


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:46 pm 
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Have you been loosing any coolant?

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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:55 pm 
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This is a very good tutorial on how fan clutches function by Hayden:> http://www.haydenauto.com/upload/Hayden ... y_Work.pdf

:SOMBRERO:

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Blk Brush Guard/Hella's
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Flowmaster/NOcat,
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GM11 blade fan / Hayden HD clutch
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:11 pm 
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AS far as I know all are powered with some version of a fluid drive and a silicon fluid with properties that work with their system. They are intended to be a partial regulation of the power consumed by a solid attached fan.

Most work thermostatically. Heat soaking from the air exiting the radiator works against a bi-metallic spring mechanism, usually moving a rotor and stator, or some element of a fluid clutch to allow less "slip" when hot, and more freewheeling when it senses lower temperatures.

Some work via centrifugal force. (Non thermal) These work more like a "flex fan" in that they provide power to the fan when RPM level is slower, such as cruising or operating in traffic, but at higher RPM level such as passing or hill climbing, the higher centrifugal force slings the fluid away from the center where the fluid drive is, so it freewheels leaving the power for the flywheel, rather than for cooling.

The two main types above, to the best of my knowledge, range between 40% and 80% the energy consumed by a similar solid fan, depending on circumstance.

Newer vehicles the clutches are computer controlled and the fluid is such that a voltage applied across it will cause it to congeal. So it works much the same way as nearly everything else any more, and the computer module can regulate how much energy the fan consumes via pulse width modulation.
I have heard these are able to vary from 10% to 95% energy consumption of a solid drive fan, but you should consider that hearsay, as I cannot find the source.
As such, the computer module can select when and where, regardless of engine RPM, to allow the most power and efficiency available when needed, without allowing the engine to dangerously overheat.

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IDParts New
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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:24 pm 
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jws84_02 wrote:
Have you been loosing any coolant?


I have lost fluid when I get it warm. It doesn't constantly leak. If I load the engine climbing a long hill it will reach redline and I may or may not have to add coolant afterwards.

Here's another weird coincidence. It overheats during the day very easily. At night it doesn't even come close. Ambient air temp doesn't seem to matter.


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:45 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
This is a very good tutorial on how fan clutches function by Hayden:> http://www.haydenauto.com/upload/Hayden ... y_Work.pdf

:SOMBRERO:


I think I have read that before. I still don't know if the freewheeling while hot is an indicator of malfunction.

Now I'm leaning hard towards a flex fan with no clutch. But I would really like to keep it stock without modification. I just can't figure out why she's overheating. My fan shroud needs replaced but I don't think its bad enough to cause the problem. I had the coolant flushed last winter and they found an inline thermostat. I had them leave it out. And my thermostat is stuck open. It is hard to get it to warm up enough to use the heater in the winter.


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:11 pm 
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well here is my opinion on this ,,, i dont care what that fan does on this engine does it spin fast or not ,,, but i do know that 100.000 miles approaches so there comes a time to remove the cylinder head ! do it right and drive again 100.000 miles if you wish


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:12 pm 
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npkdm wrote:

I have lost fluid when I get it warm. It doesn't constantly leak. If I load the engine climbing a long hill it will reach redline and I may or may not have to add coolant afterwards.


Redline on the tachometer or redline on the temperature gauge?
Neither are good.
If you are hitting redline on the temp gauge, the engine is overheating and you need to either back off the throttle or stop completely to allow it to cool down.

Where is it leaking coolant from?
You need to find the leak and fix it.

npkdm wrote:

Here's another weird coincidence. It overheats during the day very easily. At night it doesn't even come close. Ambient air temp doesn't seem to matter.

I dont know where you live, but for me this isnt unusual at all.
Hot afternoon sun beating down on the hood while at the same time heat is radiating up from the hot asphalt.
And if you are also stuck in slow moving traffic, that just makes it even worse.

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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:38 pm 
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npkdm wrote:
I think I have read that before. I still don't know if the freewheeling while hot is an indicator of malfunction.
Now I'm leaning hard towards a flex fan with no clutch. But I would really like to keep it stock without modification. I just can't figure out why she's overheating. My fan shroud needs replaced but I don't think its bad enough to cause the problem. I had the coolant flushed last winter and they found an inline thermostat. I had them leave it out. And my thermostat is stuck open. It is hard to get it to warm up enough to use the heater in the winter.

Please consider the GM fan upgrade, several on here have done it, and it works very well! :wink:
View thread:> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82941
8)

_________________
2005 Jeep LibertyCRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stage4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit & Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast&Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic. Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat,
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan / Hayden HD clutch
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:49 am 
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I had my stock clutch fail and replaced with a Hayden which was ultimately DOA as well. Both had resistance when cold but would still rotate and both did not lock up when I tested them in the oven. I had the same issue as you where long hills would cause me to over heat. Went to the fixed flex fan mod to eliminate the clutch all together and it has worked well. In extreme conditions(95F+) with the A/C on max and climbing for 15 minutes straight up I80 out of SLC, I can get the needle to start creeping right, but not like it used to.

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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:38 pm 
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mass-hole wrote:
I had my stock clutch fail and replaced with a Hayden which was ultimately DOA as well. Both had resistance when cold but would still rotate and both did not lock up when I tested them in the oven. I had the same issue as you where long hills would cause me to over heat. Went to the fixed flex fan mod to eliminate the clutch all together and it has worked well. In extreme conditions(95F+) with the A/C on max and climbing for 15 minutes straight up I80 out of SLC, I can get the needle to start creeping right, but not like it used to.


You've convinced me. This seems like the the way to go to be sure I fix the problem since there will be no fan clutch to fail. I read your post and would like your opinion on the spacers. I'm going to use whatever you suggest.

Thanks for sharing this fix


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:21 pm 
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I am trying to replace this dang fan clutch, but I can't get knocked loose. I have an 18 inch cresent wrench and a 2lb hammer. I've smacked it at least 100 times this afternoon. The pulley just slips inside the belt. But if I turn it the other direction (clockwise) the belt grabs and it tries to spin the engine.

Can someone confirm that turning the nut counter clockwise loosens it? And does anyone have any suggestions on how to hold the pulley while tapping the fan loose?


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:43 pm 
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You are turning it the correct way.

The pulley with the threaded mount for the clutch has some slotted holes in it.

When viewed from the front, at about 4:30 clockage, there is a bolt head that can be accessed when one of the holes in the pulley lines up in front of it.. Take a short, flat-wall (3/8" drive) socket, and put it over the bolt head, then turn the clutch nut until the pulley binds up against the socket. This keeps the pulley from spinning while you knock the clutch nut loose.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 147Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauge mount

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:48 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
You are turning it the correct way.

The pulley with the threaded mount for the clutch has some slotted holes in it.

When viewed from the front, at about 4:30 clockage, there is a bolt head that can be accessed when one of the holes in the pulley lines up in front of it.. Take a short, flat-wall (3/8" drive) socket, and put it over the bolt head, then turn the clutch nut until the pulley binds up against the socket. This keeps the pulley from spinning while you knock the clutch nut loose.

X2,
The procedure Gordon outlined works well.... :wink:
Best I remember, it needs to be a 13mm socket...

_________________
2005 Jeep LibertyCRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stage4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit & Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast&Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic. Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat,
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan / Hayden HD clutch
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:39 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
You are turning it the correct way.

The pulley with the threaded mount for the clutch has some slotted holes in it.

When viewed from the front, at about 4:30 clockage, there is a bolt head that can be accessed when one of the holes in the pulley lines up in front of it.. Take a short, flat-wall (3/8" drive) socket, and put it over the bolt head, then turn the clutch nut until the pulley binds up against the socket. This keeps the pulley from spinning while you knock the clutch nut loose.


thanks guys. that is a very good insight. i would have never even looked for a bolt head in there much less realize i could put a socket on it and solve my problem! thanks again


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:35 pm 
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I ran into a small problem. I ordered the wrong fan shroud......I got one for a 3.7 and it is different. So I went back to the parts store and bought a 2 1/4 inch fan spacer to put the fan within the recommended 1.5 inches from the radiator in the flex fan installation instructions. I really hope it works without the shroud because I now have lots of room in the engine compartment.

I went to the jeep dealer without a fan and was super impressed that it didn't get any hotter than it did with the stock fan attached. Anyway, the parts department told me that the shroud has been discontinued but there is old stock around the country. He can't promise me he can get one and if he can it will cost at least $120.

Do you think my current shroudless setup will work? If not, does anybody know of an alternative shroud? I'm thinking one of those simple round aftermarket shrouds that you attach with zip ties. But......I need it to cool the engine very well.


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:02 pm 
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The big Mopar online retailers like Factory Chrysler Parts and Mopar Parts Giant both list the shroud as part no. 52080127AA
and both say it fits the 2.8L diesel and the 3.7 05 & 06 Jeeps.
Go figure....
Price range from $77 to $87

MPG fitment list
This part fits the following vehicle: 2005 Jeep Liberty 4 Cyl 2.8L Turbo Package Diesel; 5-Speed Automatic

FCP fitment list
Jeep Liberty 4x4, 2.8L 4 Cyl Turbo Diesel, 5-Spd Automatic 5-45RFE EDITION Limited 2005
Jeep Liberty 4x4, 2.8L 4 Cyl Turbo Diesel, 5-Spd Automatic 5-45RFE EDTION Limited 2006
Jeep Liberty 4x4, 2.8L 4 Cyl Turbo Diesel, 5-Spd Automatic 5-45RFE SPORT 2005, 2006

If this is the wrong PN, we need to know that. :roll:
What PN did you get????

_________________
2005 Jeep LibertyCRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stage4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit & Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast&Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic. Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat,
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan / Hayden HD clutch
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:23 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
The big Mopar online retailers like Factory Chrysler Parts and Mopar Parts Giant both list the shroud as part no. 52080127AA
and both say it fits the 2.8L diesel and the 3.7 05 & 06 Jeeps.
Go figure....
Price range from $77 to $87

MPG fitment list
This part fits the following vehicle: 2005 Jeep Liberty 4 Cyl 2.8L Turbo Package Diesel; 5-Speed Automatic

FCP fitment list
Jeep Liberty 4x4, 2.8L 4 Cyl Turbo Diesel, 5-Spd Automatic 5-45RFE EDITION Limited 2005
Jeep Liberty 4x4, 2.8L 4 Cyl Turbo Diesel, 5-Spd Automatic 5-45RFE EDTION Limited 2006
Jeep Liberty 4x4, 2.8L 4 Cyl Turbo Diesel, 5-Spd Automatic 5-45RFE SPORT 2005, 2006

If this is the wrong PN, we need to know that. :roll:
What PN did you get????


Looks like it's wrong. Thats the PN I ordered. I got it from rock auto under the 3.7 dropdown. rock auto didn't have a shroud listed for the crd no matter what year I put looked under. I would post pics if I had a pic sharing account online......but I don't. The main difference between the shrouds is the the two tabs with holes that are for bolting to the rad. on the one I ordered the tabs were a full 2 inches higher so I wouldn't be able to bolt it down. I also think the new one is thicker but I didn't look that close after seeing it wouldn't bolt up.

So here's another update. I drove it from Denver to Ft Collins this afternoon in 85-90 degree temps. My new fan without a shroud is barely better than the crappy stock set up. It still got warm but never actually reached red, and I could shut off the a/c and downshift to drive to get the gauge to drop a little. I then washed the rad at the car wash as a hail mary. Before I got back on the interstate I stopped by NAPA and bought new pressure cap. The one the salesman gave me is a 16 lb. The old one is a 5 lb. Now it runs just below 3/4 at interstate speeds. If I run the a/c it passes 3/4 and climbs very slowly. I would turn off before it red-lined. I really believe that the higher pressure cap has helped a lot. And I am hopeful that a fan shroud will solve my problem completely when I come up with one.

What pressure do you run on a radiator cap? What came on them factory? Does altitude make a difference?



And thanks again for the socket trick! It worked great.


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:43 pm 
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The 2005 crd fan shroud part number from the jeep dealer is 5143022AA


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 Post subject: Re: How does a fan clutch work?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:47 pm 
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after checking the first 5 or 6 google results when searching for that part number i found this site........

https://www.hawkautoparts.com/mopar-5143022aa-shroud.html


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