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Preparing for head gasket replacement
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=87059		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  BoarX [ Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Preparing for head gasket replacement
Hi all,

Looks like my 132K miles old 2006 CRD Limited has developed (surprise, surprise!) head gasket leak:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86985&p=915010&hilit=coolant+overpressure+on+cold+engine#p915010

Is there a good write-up on the swapping gasket and head studs and whatever else makes sense to replace and check in the process? Tried searching for "ARP studs", but the search (when it works) returns literally hundreds of references. Found this important piece of info so far:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86986&p=914209&hilit=allowed+me+to+procure#p914209

Any good pointers?

Many thanks!
A.

P.S. ARP website does not show any Liberty CRD specific studs, only 4.0L inline 6?
P.P.S. How do you extract a reference to particular post in the thread short of running a search for a specific phrase in it?
Author:  Locked KJ [ Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=65524
That is the original thread I found on the arp studs. If you buy them from idparts or sasquatch the kit is actually for a different engine and you end up with 2 extra.

P.s. google works better to search the forum
Author:  BoarX [ Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
Thanks Locked KJ!

Everyone: does it make sense to replace rockers, water pump or what not while changing the headgasket? (Previous owner swore that he had timing belt changed at ~100K miles). I am currently at 130K, 2006 Limited CRD.

Thanks in advance!
A.
Author:  BoarX [ Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
Just pressure-tested my leaking cooling system and... 15psi pressure holds dead steady for at least several minutes, at least on the cold engine. Conclusions? Either the leak opens up on the hot engine only or somehow acts like a check-valve, letting exhaust gas into the coolant, but not coolant into the engine. Have anyone seen this behavior?

I am tempted to ignore warnings and try the same test on a hot engine - of course warming it up with degas tank cap off. Anyone tried that?

A word of caution about pressure-testing our cooling system: I have rented a nice brand new kit (Powerbuilt, #70, 22pcs) from Autozone. However despite having many adapters, none matched our cap size and I was forced to use one of their "universal" fittings. This one is essentially an expandable rubber cone going into the degas tank opening in place of the cap. Despite making sure that mating surfaces were dry as per instructions, this darn thing popped up on me with a bang from the pressurized system. Have your buddy to hold onto it while pumping the system up!

Cheers,
Alex
Author:  flash7210 [ Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
If the previous owner didn't provide you a list/receipt showing all the parts that were replaced, I would treat it as if the timing belt has never been replaced.
So you will need: timing belt, pulleys, tensioner, and water pump.
You will also need the camshaft timing pins and sprocket holding tool.

You can wait till you get the intake manifold off to replace the rockers. If the rollers are worn out and loose, replace all the rockers.

IDparts has all the parts for timing belt and head gasket repair.
Don't forget to get 4 new copper crush washers for the injectors.
And while you've got everything apart, do the EGR delete.

And while you have the head off, take it to a machine shop the have it checked for flatness and tested for cracks.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
BoarX wrote:
Just pressure-tested my leaking cooling system and... 15psi pressure holds dead steady for at least several minutes, at least on the cold engine. Conclusions? Either the leak opens up on the hot engine only or somehow acts like a check-valve, letting exhaust gas into the coolant, but not coolant into the engine. Have anyone seen this behavior? Cheers, Alex

Any size opening will do that.
For any "leak" big or small, it is far easier for a gas (air) to flow through, and in much larger quantities and at lower pressure differential, than a liquid (coolant). That's why it's better to leave the tester for a few hours or even overnight. That said, not getting any water flowing back through, would indicate an extremely small leak, and unlikely to have caused any collateral damage.
Author:  BoarX [ Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
flash7210, GordnadoCRD, thanks guys!

GordnadoCRD, theoretically I totally agree with you on the leak behavior. What I am trying to do is to make sure that I indeed have a blown gasket before spending big $$$ on the replacement parts.

By the way, has anyone tried any kind of snake oil head gasket repair stuff on this engine? Not as a permanent solution of course, but as a way to keep the vehicle drivable before I get all the parts and a long weekend to fix everything the right way?

Thanks!
A.
Author:  PANHEAD [ Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
I would replace exhaust valves along with rockers for sure, My 1st KJ blew HG at 135k, did top end job and TB etc but after 4500mi it dropped an exhaust valve and wasted the motor.
I recently did top end & TB on my 2nd one, Replaced rockers exhaust valves this time and kinda wish I would have done intakes too, running perfectly 4000mi now (out of 180k) so we'll see how it goes.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
BoarX wrote:
flash7210, GordnadoCRD, thanks guys!

GordnadoCRD, theoretically I totally agree with you on the leak behavior. What I am trying to do is to make sure that I indeed have a blown gasket before spending big $$$ on the replacement parts.

I understand, but if you have combustion gasses getting into coolant, that's either a failed head gasket or a cracked head. If it were a split liner (the only other possibility) your symptoms would be far more extreme. Those are really the only possibilities, and either way, the head comes off.

BoarX wrote:
By the way, has anyone tried any kind of snake oil head gasket repair stuff on this engine? Not as a permanent solution of course, but as a way to keep the vehicle drivable before I get all the parts and a long weekend to fix everything the right way?

Thanks!
A.

My past experiences with that kind of patch, I would only use it as a very very last resort to get the vehicle within towing distance. Usually they cause more problems and expense than they solve. I would expect problems later with Radiator, Heater Core, Water Pump, Thermostat, oil cooler etc. Pretty much anything the stuff touches will add insulation and reduce thermal transfer, as well as set up in, and block off radiator and heater core passages.
From the sounds of things, it's not gotten so severe as to rupture anything coolant related as it is, but if you do drive it, use proper coolant mix, and drive carefully and with a vented cap so the extra air can escape, and be really really easy on it so you don't boil the coolant.
Author:  BoarX [ Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
Nothing beats the power of collective mind! Will report my progress (or lack of thereof).
Author:  krautastic [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
I just did my headgasket... It passed all tests except the one where I pulled glowplugs and injectors and cranked it over in the morning, and it shot coolant out glow plug hole #2 like crazy because it was leaking down at temperature at pressure. I followed the liberty timing belt job video on youtube which gets you 70% of the way. You'll pull most of the ancillary accessories on either side of the motor in order to do the job 'easily' and to get the wire harness out of the way. The only thing I'd caution on, in the factory service manual, the labeled head bolt numbers is not the tightening order. They list the tightening order in the description below the image. I got my entire car back together before that was pointed out to me. I didn't go back in, and all is fine so far (200miles).

As for parts, I bought mine through 4 websites. Then I discovered that summitracing price matches or beats any online price. If I were to do it again, I'd see if idparts or sasquatch will pricematch the entire amount for all parts. It came out to ~870 if i remember right. I used a mixture of idparts, amazon, summit racing, and autoplicity for the headstuds. But, don't order from autoplicity, they're pretty unprofessional when I had an issue with my package not showing up. Just have summit racing price match to them. But, like I said, I'd probably rather have done one order through idparts, and I would call them and see if they are open to doing a bulk price match. I imagine I'd rather have a $1,000 order than a $300 one. I did not replace valves, they seemed to operate well and the rockers didn't really have any play. Resurfacing head and hotbath clean was $80. They took off .005" to remove headgasket impressions.
Author:  BoarX [ Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
Thanks so much krautastic, very useful information!
Author:  BoarX [ Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
Hmm, Summitracing does't even appear to have anything for VM Motori 4 cylinder, unless their search is messed up. What parts did you get from them, krautastic?

Thanks,
A.
Author:  krautastic [ Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
I got all the gaskets from them and could have gotten the headbolts as well price matched to autoplicity. Used this thread to get the part numbers, which do pull up on summit: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=47123. Timing belt and airbox to turbo hose were purchased on amazon. Remaining items were from idparts.
Author:  BoarX [ Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
OK, slowly but surely, I am getting the engine disassembled; fan, radiator, intercooler, timing belt with pulleys and both covers are off, FCV and intake elbow are off, getting ready to remove injectors, but scratching my head about the best way to get rid of the maze of wires above the valve cover, especially that humongous plastic wire conduit. Any suggestions? Do you crack it open and deal with individual wires or somehow remove it as a whole? Was trying to look at some pictures of the open valve cover and wires were nowhere to be seen. Any hints appreciated as usual! Thanks in advance, A.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
I used bungees from the hood holding the wire loom and plastic cover up in the air, then worked underneath. Ultimately I disposed of the plastic tunnel and went with PolyGuard hydraulic hose wrap. That upper y, backwards J, POS loom housing, was coming apart anyway, and had gotten so hot inside it from heat convection, that the wires insulation had melted the loom into a solid cable across the top of the engine and down behind the alternator. The polyguard allows the fan air to move in and around the wires so convection effect is nullified and the wires don't heat up and melt.

Image

Image

Image

Once you have the front loom arm that goes to the air box, and the coolant temperature sensor disconnected, and the alternator and support arm removed, that whole front section can be folded up towards, and above the fuel filter, completely out of the way, and hung there. For me it also helped to have the battery and tray out of the vehicle, and the PDC / fuse box lifted up and back also towards the brake booster. I was doing Weeks 1&2 at the same time, though.
Author:  BoarX [ Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
Thanks for the tip! Just got a bunch of bungees for my sailboat, so I am fully armed :)

As for the wire management improvement, this is what pops up on Amazon, different company, but looks very similar:

https://www.amazon.com/Pre-Cut-Spiral-P ... +hose+wrap

Comes in different sizes.

And yes, I am doing Weeks kit along the way, but not so sure about the stage 2 as is doesn't seem to do much short of freeing some space, reducing weight and reducing potential for future coolant leaks - or am I missing something?

More beer your way! :)
A.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
About the stage 2 weeks, it's basically true, but the space it frees by removing the entire mess is awesome.
It makes working on glow plugs a snap, and that is something you are likely to want later if you need to work on #3 or #4.
It removes the potential for exhaust leaks by removing the tube that conducts heat around the back of the engine. With exhaust able to enter, it will cause damage when it rusts through or cracks or whatever causing another leak, as it's not blocked off at the exhaust manifold.

REgarding that hose wrap, it might work. The temp resistance is less, but could be enough if kept far enough away from the exhaust. I bought mine from a shop that does industrial hydraulic lines and had the Parker stuff in bulk. Sold to me by the foot. I got 5 feet of the big stuff and 15 feet of the smaller stuff. In truth though, the smaller stuff can be applied around larger things, it's just harder to put on that way since you have to "unwind" the spiral to get it around the bigger stuff. I also used it on the AC high pressure line because I was tired of burning my arm when reaching in to work on things.

Image
Author:  BoarX [ Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
OK, here is the best I could achieve:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Jol- ... sp=sharing

There is a big bundle (the end of inverted J) going down to the starter that prevents folding the main cable loom up any further, hope this will be sufficient. A.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preparing for head gasket replacement
That looks about like mine was to start with.

If you disconnect the vacuum hose between the metal pipe and the hose to the brake booster,
and
disconnect the wires for the AC compressor and CP3
you might get it to go back a little more, but not a whole lot.
Perhaps try hooking another bungee from the alternator bend to the driver's side hood hinge or a point in that area? Might be worthwhile. or maybe not.
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