Transmission / Transfer Case Problems (SOLVED)

LCS · **Posted:** Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:26 pm

2006 Liberty CRD with 146,000. Shifted into N on the highway, foot off gas, coasting at 60mph (to check for a dragging front brake). Shifted slowly back to D and immediately heard a metallic whirling noise from below the shifter. Pulled it over and tried to put it in P, but it made a terrible clicking/grinding noise. Put it back in drive and was able to drive 3-miles home with the trans shifting fine... but every time I let off the gas I could hear the trans wind-up and then that metallic whirling noise.

When I got home I discovered that I had no reverse, just a faint growling sound when it is placed in R.
-Going from R to P gives immediate clicking/grinding.
-Going from N to P gives no sounds, but P does nothing... the jeep rolls in P.
-Going into D is fine, engages, drives, and shifts.

1. Never had trans issues in the past, regularly serviced per guidelines
2. Checked fluid, clean and at the right level
3. Dropped pan, fluid/filter looked & smelled brand new - nothing in the pan, no metal or clutch material

Any thoughts on what in the world this could be?

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:58 pm

When you shifted into N, your engine speed would have returned to 770ish RPM idle speed, as your foot was off the accelerator.

A diesel has (compared to gasser)
1) Heavier components
2) 17.5:1 compression
3) no intake vacuum at idle.

All three of these make the diesel much much harder to overcome inertia than a gas engine which, with a manual trans., might not have cared so much about that maneuver.

When you do that to a diesel, it's a hellatious hit on your trans / TC internals. You asked your trans to absorb 0-60 acceleration from your rear drive shaft, in 0.5 seconds or less, and with a diesel engine and locked torque converter on the other end.

Had you revved the engine to 2000-ish rpm, the trans would likely have survived.

There are a lot of components between the input and output shafts. Which of them have broken, I don't know, but it's likely to be more than one, from what you describe.

I empathize and don't want to sound like I'm shaking my finger at you, but I really am kinda shaking my finger at ya.

On the bright side, the transmission is really no more expensive to replace than a HP injection pump since they are used in so many things. AND it gives you an opportunity to upgrade your TC!

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:11 pm

It seems that something is broken inside the transmission.
Based on your symptoms, I'd say it's the parking pawl.
If you drop the pan and valve body it should be obvious.
But it's not an easy fix. You might want to take it to a good transmission shop.

LCS · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:53 am

Thanks for the comments guys, another lesson from the school of hard knocks. Any 5-45RFE experts out there that could help zero in on what exactly may have broken?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:34 am

A couple of publications you can look at that might be of help:

http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/J ... Diesel.pdf
http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/upl ... /45RFE.pdf

But as others have already suggested, getting it to a good transmission shop with a highly trained and experienced technician may be your best course of action!
Certainly sounds like something broke or let go inside the transmission. :shock:

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:47 pm

LCS wrote:

I discovered that I had no reverse, just a faint growling sound when it is placed in R.

To me, this indicates that a one-way clutch is jammed up.
When you put it R the reverse clutch engages and the jammed up one-way is preventing movement.

Quote:

but P does nothing... the jeep rolls in P

So, either the parking pawl is broken or a broken piece of something is sitting on top of the valve body, jamming up the linkage, and preventing full engagement of park.

Like I said before, you can drop the pan and valve body and have a look for broken pieces, but in the end you will wind up having to take it to a transmission shop for repair.
Or, if you want to skip the shop altogether, find a good used low mileage 545rfe and swap it out yourself.

LCS · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:01 pm

Talked to a reputable local tranny shop that does a lot of work on the 45RFE. The manager is thinking along the same lines as you all have noted.

So... I'll be pulling the tranny this week and dropping it off at the shop for repair/rebuild. When the problem is uncovered I'll post an update. Will upgrade the stock torque converter to the heavy duty euro style as well given the circumstances.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:09 pm

Nothing wrong with the Euro TC, but...

A stock low-stall Hemi TC from a Ram 1500 will also work. And will be easier to find and probably less money.

LCS · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:13 pm

Thanks for the tip, I'll research that as well.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:05 pm

Install the updated front pump while you are in there.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:03 pm

papaindigo wrote:

Install the updated front pump while you are in there.

X2
Excellent advice while it is being rebuilt!
And also good advice on the Hemi TC, several have installed them and reported good results!
But I am sure your rebuilder knows to do this...

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:33 pm

The parking pawl engages with the outside of the L/R clutch drum IIRC, and I believe it has a sprag type overrunning clutch as well, so this could be the failed area.

Where are you located, LCS? I have a Hemi torque converter with 62K miles, that came with the used 545RFE transmission I bought from a wrecked 2010 Ram 1500 with 5.7 Hemi. I'm asking 100+shipping if you're interested, but will need to know at least the zip to find out how much shipping is.

LCS · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:12 pm

Thanks for the offer Gordnado, very tempting $$ wise, but if I want the full warranty on a rebuild I've gotta use a new TC provided by my shop.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:57 pm

No worries, I just haven't had a chance to get it on my extra stuff page, which I see was deleted for inactivity, (I assume) so I'll have to post it again, and remember to bump it occasionally.

LCS · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:26 pm

Update:
Started in on removing the transmission this morning. Dropped the transfer case first, sure glad I did, as the transfer case appears to be the culprit. In 2WD if I turn the transfer case input shaft forward there is a bit of grinding, but the output shaft still spins. But... if I turn the input shaft in reverse I hear gears grinding/missing and the output shaft doesn't spin. Same story in 4PT and 4FT, but not 4LOW. I cycled through the gears a few times and maybe 1 in 3 times the problem will not surface and I'll get good solid transfer from input-to-output with no grinding. Going to take the transfer case to the shop on Monday to see if it can be adjusted, otherwise may be time for a used replacement.

Worth noting, with the transfer case removed, transmission in park, the trans output shaft doesn't turn... verifying that park does indeed engage. Wasn't the old tranny after all.

If I ever pinpoint what was wrong with the transfer case I'll make another post. Thanks all.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:03 pm

I have no idea what could have broken in the transfer case but glad you found it there and not in the transmission.

joe_ · **Posted:** Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:24 pm

I wonder if it's the same failure that's described here: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86463
(only 4-Low works; seems like the high range ground itself up)

LCS · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:36 am

So after reading through the FSM I figured I'd open up the transfer case myself last night to troubleshoot. Found the problem in short order:
1. The plastic shift-fork pads from the low-range shift fork were in pieces in the bottom of the case.
2. This allowed the low-range shift sleeve to grind away at the low-range shift fork.
3. Once enough of the shift fork wore away the low-range shift sleeve was just barely engaged in the input shaft (and almost in the neutral position).
4. The rest is history, with the teeth barely engaged both sides started wearing until they completely broke loose.

It seems that these plastic "shift-fork pads" are known to fail, a poor design overall.

Side note, the infamous "shift-fork roll pin" that gets a lot of heat on the web wasn't too hard to pull following the FSM instructions. The key was to pray before starting - which led me to vice grips and a crow bar to lever it out.

Below are some pics, hopefully this will help others that mysteriously lose Park, Reverse, and even Drive... accompanied by the sickening metallic whirling sound.

https://ibb.co/hJMGU5

https://ibb.co/nmnZGk

https://ibb.co/fjZQNQ

https://ibb.co/kH88bk

https://ibb.co/fvNZGk

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:05 am

Yes, very typical! Seen plenty of these over the years in transfer cases. The plastic shoes are a poor design and when they fail they allow metal to metal contact and eventual shift fork failure as you have suffered. :roll:

I have always believed that transmission fluid is not an adequate lube for this application! Personally, I always sweeten the TF with a small amount of gear oil. :wink:

joe_ · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Great info! Are you going to replace the worn parts, or just throw in a new transfer case?

Just to clarify, is it the low-range or high range shift forks/shift sleeve that wears? I though high range was the one that goes out.

Transmission / Transfer Case Problems (SOLVED)

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