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Engine Won't Turn Over by Hand After Rocker Arm/Lifter Job http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=87074	Page 1 of 1

Author:	VT_CRD Driver [ Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Engine Won't Turn Over by Hand After Rocker Arm/Lifter Job
Hi All. Thank you for all the wonderful posts and sharing of information. Now, I find myself in need of more! A while back I self-diagnosed a timing belt slip and had all the symptoms of failed rocker arms. I did my research, read all the posts, got the Service Manual, watched videos and dove in. At 129,000 miles it was bound to happen. When I opened up the timing belt covers, the belt didn't actually look that bad. There was no evidence of damage, no evidence of slippage, but I proceeded. I got the intake manifold off and removed all the rocker arms and lifter assemblies. Sure enough there were broken ones, bearings that were shot and one actually wedged into the head (but luckily it just pulled out by hand and didn't damage the cylinder the lifter piston slides down into). So, happy with my diagnosis, I replaced all the rocker assemblies, cleaned up the intake as best I could without removing the cams, re-assembled with a new gasket, etc. I should have stated that I did in fact insert the intake and exhaust cam locking pins. I also used a 1/4" Drill bit inserted to the same depth as the crankshaft locking pin (threads were stripped) with the crank indicator at the 3 o'clock position. When I had the injectors out, I dropped a long narrow screwdriver into the first cylinder just to make sure it was near top dead center. It seemed so as it was maybe 1.5" below where I would think TDC should be. I also replaced all the glow plugs. In pulling out the old plugs, none of the ceramic tips were missing nor damaged. Before installing the new glow plugs I blew out the cylinders with compressed air just in case some crap from the injector removal fell down in there. Nothing to speak of. So, today, I replaced the timing belt, got everything tensioned and went to crank the engine over by hand to check my work. I removed the camshaft pins, removed the crank pin (drill) and I can get the engine to turn over 3/4 of a turn clockwise before I hear a little clunk and I can not turn any further. I don't want to force it. It does not feel like compression.....If I let is sit for a few minutes, it does the same. Suggestion/Question time. Is it possible I didn't have the crank at 90-deg past TDC? The mark was absolutely at the 3 o'clock position, but I needed to put a whole rotation on just the crank (timing belt removed and camps pinned) so I could insert the crank pin (drill). Could I have hit a rocker assembly off a valve when placing the intake/Cylinder Head Cover? I did put grease on each valve top to hold them in place and was super careful...but?? Any other suggestions as to where to start? I'm thinking of removing the timing belt, replacing the cam pins and see if I can re-insert the crankshaft pin. I would need to roll the engine back counterclockwise to do this. Any issues there? Should I do that with the timing belt on and let everything move? So Frustrating!!....But, thanks in advance for you help! -

Author:	geordi [ Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Engine Won't Turn Over by Hand After Rocker Arm/Lifter J
Likely that your crankshaft was NOT properly positioned, as when you look for the hole in the flywheel it is a monumental pain in the arse to find. IT IS VERY SMALL. Step one: Take the belt off again, let the cams both "settle" to 1/12 rotation (one clock position) clockwise and all the valves will be closed. You can now rotate the crankshaft to the correct position without hitting anything. Rotate the crankshaft and confirm the small timing notch that is just above the head of that bolt. Just so you know what you are looking for. It will be in-line with one of the 4 bolt holes in the crankshaft hub. Now rotate the crankshaft to place that notch at the 3 o'clock position, and the bolt holes in the crankshaft hub are vertical and horizontal. This is the correct position. If you go feeling for the flywheel hole, it will be insanely hard to locate but it IS there. If you have an easy time, then the bolt holes are NOT vertical and horizontal, and you have landed on a large gap in the flywheel. There are many. NOW put the cams back to their pinned positions, you can rotate them as many times as you'd like to ensure they all "feel" even. There will be 4 evenly spaced "gaps" in the spring tension, that is because the individual rockers are closely timed together but are not matched. When you have done this, you are ready to reinstall the belt - and watch as you do that the tension between the crankshaft and the fuel pump remains consistent. I like to re-time the fuel pump as well, although some people say it doesn't matter. You should be ready to rotate by hand now and hopefully are successful.

Author:	papaindigo [ Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Engine Won't Turn Over by Hand After Rocker Arm/Lifter J
geordi and I have slightly, but not really substantive, differences here. Download a copy of the 05 FSM from http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/ and look thru it for using a allen key to pin the flywheel. The Miller tool is difficult to thread in as the threads in the bell housing are often full of crud AND if it goes in all that proves is it went into a hole, as geordi notes there are several, in the flywheel. The advantage of the allen key method is you can "tap" around on the flywheel with the allen key enough to give you confidence that you are going into a small hole and not a large cutout. Combine this with that notch on the crank and you can be pretty confidant that the crank is set correctly.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Engine Won't Turn Over by Hand After Rocker Arm/Lifter J
I found this tool http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mac-Tools-Lady-Foot-Line-Up-Pry-Bar-Set-LF12-12-LF16-16-LF21-21-/132279625288?hash=item1ecc7ae648:g:KUIAAOSwyWZZUnCu to be very helpful in getting the correct alignment hole situated. If you have the correct hole in the flex plate, when you move the bar up and down, it will move the crank just a little ways IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. Once you have it there, you can use the bar to center the holes in corresponding alignment, and whatever device you use for a locking pin will not be overly difficult to slide in. Once installed you won't be able to move the crank either direction more than 3 degrees or so. If you have the wrong hole, you might get it to move in one direction once, but then the bar will just wobble around and not be able to move the crank. If the locking device is installed in the wrong hole, you will be able to move the crank forward and backward 10-15 degrees. Things can get locked up really tight if you put it in the wrong hole. without permission.

Author:	VT_CRD Driver [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Engine Won't Turn Over by Hand After Rocker Arm/Lifter J
OK, I have removed the timing belt again. There was no real movement on the cam shafts when I removed it. Skeptical there as I thought I would see them "settle" I have to rotate the engine by hand in the counterclockwise direction to get the timing mark back to 3 O'Clock. Still can't turn it all all clockwise....it hits something hard. Is it possible to be a full rotation off on timing? My other concern is IF I was off to begin with, could I have messed up one or more of the new rocker assemblies when I torqued them down?

Author:	VT_CRD Driver [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Engine Won't Turn Over by Hand After Rocker Arm/Lifter J
Another data point: I placed the timing mark at 3 O'clock by rotating counterclockwise (this also brought me back to my paint marks). Went under the vehicle and a 6mm Allen Wench slid right into the alignment hole with no problem at all. I marked the wrench at the exact depth of the threads on the Miller crank locking tool and I know it is going in as deep as the threads would seat on the Miller tool. However, Now for the first time I tried wiggling the 6mm Allen Wrench around and I can move it around A LOT. Almost as if I'm in a large cutout in the flywheel, not a small hole at all. Is the locking hole in the flywheel like those in the cams? Should it be a very tight fit? Thanks again in advance!

Author:	VT_CRD Driver [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Engine Won't Turn Over by Hand After Rocker Arm/Lifter J
GOT IT!! I was definitely in a random hole or larger cutout in the flywheel with the crankshaft locking. I was off about two timing teeth. Here's the kicker: I marked the 6mm Allen Wrench to the depth of the Miller Tool; however when you are in the correct hole, the 6mm wrench (or drill) will insert much farther. The Miller Locking Pin has a depth from the top of the threads to the tip of exactly 2" Therefore if you thread this all the way in, there will be 2" till the tip. When the 6mm Allen Wrench or Drill are inserted into the small hole, it will go in to a depth of 2.5". Also of note: there is only about 1/2 tooth of play in the crankshaft when the pin is properly inserted. You then feel a hard lock when trying to move the crank by hand. I'm re-assembled now and have turned it over by hand 3-4 times, re-tensioned the belt tensioner and I think I'm ready to light it off! Thanks again for all the help guys!

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