You need to have the pins in while tightening the sprockets.
That will keep the cam from turning.
But you must also use some sort of counter-hold to hold the sprocket in position while torquing the bolt.
Or use some sort of tool that locks both cam sprockets together tightly and prevents them from moving.

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U.S. Army Retired

Flash, leaving the pins in makes complete sense and using a counter hold tool, which I have been using. But why am I being told to remove the pins before torquing?

And once I torque the can gears how do I get the pins out as they are a bit bound? My understanding was the pins should still be loose.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
-Timing belt
-Weeks 1 and 2 EGR delete kits

You should be able to put a box end wrench on the cam bolt and gently move the cam backward slightly to take the tension off the pin and remove it.

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U.S. Army Retired

OK. I've gotten things torqued now a couple of times with the cams pinned and doing a counter hold. Now when I rotate the engine (I did 12 rotations) the mark on the nose of the crank is at about 2:30 when I get my pins put back in the cams.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
-Timing belt
-Weeks 1 and 2 EGR delete kits

Will the crank pin go in?

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U.S. Army Retired

If the crank mark isn't at 3 then the timing isn't correct. Take the belt back off, unpin the cams(yes they will rotate to a closed position, it ok) now rotate the crank so the mark is at 3 o'clock. Next, re pin the cams. Now with the cam sprockets loose on the cams install the belt. Tighten the tensioner. Now with the counter hold tool torque the sprockets to 80 lbs. remove the pins and rotate any even number of times and check timing.

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2005 Crd Silver Limited- arps, rockers, 7v etechno's, egr deleted, v6 airbox, metal cac's. Yeti's stage 2 tune. Euro TC, Ram tcm, pml transmission pan, facet lift pump

Flash, I can pin the flywheel. It's noticeably off though.

JWS, that's the exact process I've been following.

This last time I redid timing, I had the cams set so they were biased to a side of the pin hoping they would have correct time after torquing. I guess that didn't work.

On a side note, what do you guys use to turn the cams when the gears are off?

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_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
-Timing belt
-Weeks 1 and 2 EGR delete kits

I just use the cam sprocket bolt and a socket. I always rotate the cams around when I do a rocker job to ensure I didn't knock a rocker off setting the valve cover back on

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2005 Crd Silver Limited- arps, rockers, 7v etechno's, egr deleted, v6 airbox, metal cac's. Yeti's stage 2 tune. Euro TC, Ram tcm, pml transmission pan, facet lift pump

Is there some chance the belt tensioner is contributing to this? I see it keeps losing tension. The FSM says torque the bolt to 22 and 26 ft-lbs. Which is correct?

Also, the video says to put the spring on the tensioner so it's in the middle of the notch, but the FSM says to set the tensioner so the spring is after the notch. Which is correct?

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_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
-Timing belt
-Weeks 1 and 2 EGR delete kits

Set it to after the notch initially. Then tighten the bolt.
26 ft/lbs if you like (or 30?). Just not so tight that you pull the threads out of the aluminum inner cover.

After you crank it over by hand a few times the tensioner should loosen up slightly.
Its better to be slightly too tight than too loose.

And over time, as the belt wears and stretches, the tensioner will loosen.

Both times when I did my timing belt, I didn't use a torque wrench on the tensioner.
Because my hands are precisely calibrated to exceed industry standards

_________________
U.S. Army Retired

Ok, here's where I'm at. I can get everything torqued down, with the cams pinned. Now when I pull the pins I have to rock the crank a bit to get them to spin out. When I go to put the pins back in, the mark on the crank nose is about 7 degrees short of being 90 degrees ATD (3:00 position). I can turn the crank a bit so the mark is at 3:00 but this causes the pins to bind.

I did try adding 7 degrees to the crank but got the same result.

I downloaded an inclinometer app to my phone and did some jerry rigging to figure this out.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
-Timing belt
-Weeks 1 and 2 EGR delete kits

Use a 6mm Allen wrench to pin the flexplate/crank in position.
If you can't get all cams and crank pinned then you are likely 1 tooth off at the crank.

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U.S. Army Retired

This might help
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=87074

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U.S. Army Retired

I spoke with geordi a few times times this afternoon. I'll lay out a summary of conversations below.

-disassemble belt and cam gears, make sure can pins are in.
-reset timing with crank AT 3:00, making sure the vertical bolt holes are vertical.
-when installing the timing belt, leave can gears loose.
-install and torque the belt tensioner
-torque can gears WITH pins installed while counter holding the cam gears.
-rotate engine to check time

After I did this, I set the crank again to 90 degrees ATD. I was able to pin the intake can easily. The crank had to be rocked back some to install the exhaust pin. I spoke with geordi again and was advised to leave as is.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
-Timing belt
-Weeks 1 and 2 EGR delete kits

congrats , you did it right, anyway next time if you get tired hunting with timing ,, just zip them cam bolts with air gun quick , they would'nt have time to skip time lol

Thanks. I consider myself to be pretty mechanically inclined, but this job was something else.

You know, I had the impact right there too.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
-Timing belt
-Weeks 1 and 2 EGR delete kits

I wouldn't use an impact driver on the cam sprocket bolts; good luck counterholding that properly.

good sized spanner wrench and another set of hands might be helpful .... or you can always use the proper Miller tools if you have them.

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2006 Liberty Limited CRD, Deep Beryl Green, Yeti tune, Arp studs, new cams, rockers, lifters, TB. "Green Monster"
2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
1982 Fiat 124 Spider Convertible. "Fiona"

yeah its true , we do need practice with an inpact gun ,lol , i remember back in the 90 s we did so many 5.9 cummins front cover oil leak repairs , and p7100 fuel pump gear was famous to skip timing , so RAPID SERVE cumins warranty dep . pay us only the first time , second time that truck comes on the hook < that was on our time , so we had to do some gun practice LOL.