Hi all,
I am currently on a road trip across the country. From Michigan to Nevada. I am about 6 hours from my destination, only to realize I have about a inch or so of oil in my coolant reservoir. The jeep has been running fine with no issues, so from what I have read would lead me to believe it could be the oil cooler gasket. Also from what I have read that is about a three-hour job. Is this something I can do in a parking lot? I have a standard set of sockets and wrenches(costco set). Or am I better off taking to a shop. Or ultimately driving to my destination. And then driving home to deal with it, although that would be another 33 hours on the engine. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Jeep is 2006 with 85k miles, gde tune, egr stage1, EHM all done when i purchased at 50k.

That appears to be a LOT of oil in your coolant reservoir... when was the last time you checked under the hood and noticed that there was NO oil in the coolant reservoir? I am curious... why do you think it is the oil cooler gasket?

Is there any chance that - during an overnight stopover - you can perform the head gasket test? This is the first step you need to do before immediately suspecting the oil cooler gasket failure. While I am certain that oil cooler gaskets do fail from time to time, the majority of situations that you are describing have been the result of a failed head gasket.

1) ON A COLD ENGINE, start and run it for about a minute, then shut it off.

2) Open up the coolant reservoir cap. If it releases pressure, then you very likely have a head gasket failure.

Also on a cold engine, please pull your upper radiator hose off of the O.E. thermostat and check to see if an in-hose thermostat valve is installed. If there is indeed a thermostat valve in your upper rad hose, REMOVE IT IMMEDIATELY. This valve is not part of the original design of the CRD engine's cooling system and people install these to raise the operating temperature of the engine when the O.E. thermostat assembly fails. This is a cheap fix that can cause head gasket failures.

Thanks for response. I just did a oil change 3 days ago and have been driving sense last Thursday afternoon, so all day friday and most of Saturday. So didn't notice anything at the oil change but haven't looked untill now. Jeep has been sitting this morning so will try the test.
Their is a thermo in the line as i put it in as a quick fix when i didn't have the time/funds to replace and seemed alot have done on the forum.

Also I am just outside of Elko, Nevada if there are any reputable mechanics in the area.

If you indeed have a head gasket failure, the inline, (in-hose as I call it), is the likely cause.

The original equipment thermostat assembly has a thermostat valve in it that operates a bypass valve as well as the valve controlling the flow through the radiator. This assembly controls both the main circuit and the bypass circuit with a valve that has 1 wax motor. They therefore do not work independently of one another... when the main circuit to the radiator is open, the bypass circuit is closed and when the main circuit is closed, the bypass circuit is open.

The O.E. thermostat assembly is designed to fail open, meaning that the main valve controlling coolant flow through the radiator will become stuck open and the engine's operating temperature will be even lower than the ridiculous EPA mandated 176 degrees Fahrenheit. BY DESIGN, when the main valve controlling the coolant flow to the radiator is stuck open, the bypass valve is stuck closed. Therefore, when you install a second thermostat valve in the upper radiator hose you close off coolant flow through the engine any time that in-hose thermostat valve is closed... neither the main coolant circuit or the bypass circuit has coolant flow.

This is in total contradiction to what the engineers of the R428 engine intended, and will lead to hot spots forming in the cylinder head. This in turn will eventually lead to head gasket failures and warped or cracked cylinder heads. This condition is also likely to cause other problems as well.

I have never had to remove the oil cooler so I cant say how long it will take or what tools you will need.
But I wouldn't count on it just being the gasket.
I would replace both the oil cooler and gasket.
This is not a job you would want to do twice.
Probably the biggest problem you will run into is getting the part.
Its not likely that a local dealer will have one in stock. Best bet would be to order it from IDparts and have it shipped overnight.

If you intend to do this yourself, you will need to drain all the coolant before removing the oil cooler.
I would also drain all the oil and put fresh oil in. You likely have some coolant in the oil pan.

I would also take the in-ling thermostat out.
Its summertime. You dont have to worry about it running too cool.
And when you get a chance, put a factory replacment thermostat in.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired

To get to the cooler is a difficult spot to access, I had to remove the water pump assembly to get at it.

I have my doubts that it's the oil cooler, in 8 years of CRD's ownership I probably heard of one oil cooler failure. Oil cooler gasket failure or oil cooler failure is seldom the cause.

If I remember correctly, the water pump prevents the cooler from being removed because it sits in front of the cooler ... one of the oil cooler nut/bolt sits just behind the water pump.

If you do need an oil cooler and gasket, then I have a used one if you're interested $50.

_________________
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Well update:

Tried the pressure test on a cold engine start this morning and thankfully their was none! I've drove now another 4 hours sense noticing the oil and have no change in vehicle performance. Have been mapping my MPG for the trip and no decrease. I haven't been able to get thermo out as my leatherman pliers can't grasp clamp, but should be able to get proper tools at destination. I have about 2 more hours till the final stop then wont be driving the Jeep for a week. So will have to continue trouble shooting afterwards.

Just want to say I've been using this sight sense the purchase of the jeep about 4 years ago and greatly appreciate all the info and now with my first post the support. Hope I get this figured out so i can keep my little tractor going!

Consider yourself very fortunate that it is likely that you do not have a head gasket problem. On the subject of the cold engine coolant pressure test; other LOSTJEEPS CRD experienced members please chime in... can a CRD still have a head gasket problem if there is no pressure in the cooling system on a cold engine?

I forgot to ask... is there ANY evidence of coolant in your engine oil?

Its not impossible, but in most cases NO.
Also, most head gasket failures will cause coolant to leak into the cylinders with noticeable loss of coolant over time.
Rarely does a head gasket failure cause oil to leak into the coolant.

If you have oil getting into the coolant you will also have coolant getting into the oil. You may not be able to see it on the dipstick but its there.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired

I think the only time that there would be no pressure in the cooling system with a cold engine that has a head gasket failure would be if the cooling system also has a pressure leak, (weak coolant cap, perhaps?).

I was under the impression that there are cases where, due to the pressures involved, that the oil could leak into the cooling system, but not enough pressure from the cooling system to cause coolant to leak into the oil.

KauaiCrd: Regarding my previous question asking about coolant in your oil, flash7210 is correct; you may not see it on your engine dipstick. You can start by checking the residue under the oil filler cap, and perhaps also perform an oil change... look carefully at what is coming out of your drain pan.

As an alternative, maybe spend a little on an oil analysis. I am certain that there is a laboratory in Nevada somewhere that can do this for you on short notice. Ask them to specifically check for glycol contamination.

Except for when the engine stops running.
Oil pressure goes to zero but there is still pressure in the cooling system.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired

Yes, what you are saying is true.

But the point I was making was that perhaps in some cases the gasket will hold at lower pressures, (say for example the gasket will not leak at any pressure under 30 psi), but will leak at higher pressures, like the pressures involved in combustion. I was wondering if that is possible.

This is my 666 posting... Happy Halloween, everyone!

Yes. Mine passed the cold engine pressure test, still was getting 25mpg under combined city/highway, no smoke under most conditions, no milky oil or oil in the coolant, but I was getting coolant leaking down into cylinder 2 after shutting the engine down.

It is also possible that the oil is only entering the coolant through a single weak edge bolt on the head gasket, and it takes the 80-120 psi of cold oil pressure to push through into the oil, but then it closes up when the oil pressure drops as it heats up. Normal oil pressure is (sadly I think low) at around 30psi running down the highway, and as low as 18psi at idle.

I do not think he has a typical head gasket failure since the cold engine test did not show combustion leaking to the water jacket... BUT that doesn't mean that there is not still an issue.

I don't know if you have a Fumoto drain valve, but if you do, draining off a bit of oil into a clear bottle and letting it sit for a while will allow any water to settle to the bottom. I don't know anywhere other than the head gasket or the cooler where oil and water are next to each other... But as has been mentioned, the cooler just isn't something that we hear of as a source of problems. And like them or don't, there really hasn't been any consistent pattern of failures with the inline thermostat either. That doesn't mean it doesn't cause issues or that I am in favor or against it - Just that as a modification, it has not proven a consistent source of X Y or Z failure modes or other issues popping up.

It is the oil cooler. Mine split causing the coolant low level light to come on when the oil hit the sensor. The car was running fine and had no idea there was something wrong until that light came on. sensored word of a job according to the shop and I seen it first hand. The engine mount had to come off to get the bloody thing out.

If you look at what an in-hose thermostat does to the bypass flow during the initial warm up phase of operation with a failed open OEM thermostat; in theory it is a VERY BAD modification and one which should never be used on this engine due to it's coolant flow design! It certainly could cause heat related issues with the head and / or gasket!

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geordi... if you haven't figured out by now that the in-hose thermostat option makes a fundamental change to how the CRD engine cooling system operates, and changes it in ways that would never be allowed by the engineers who designed the R428, then stay away from this subject altogether. You clearly do not have a clue as to how important cooling system bypass circuits are in engines, especially those that have aluminum heads on iron blocks.

For the enlightenment of the LOSTJEEPS.com members, please let us all know what kind of training you have had that gives you the authority to say that you know more than the engineers who designed this engine. Your responses on this subject indicate that you think of the bypass circuit as something of an afterthought, and that it can be ignored when modifying the cooling system to solve the low-operating temperature issue with North American R428 engines.

Right back at you.

You have made numerous statements about how the engineers think - even in the posting demanding me to justify my existence to you. So do the same: What training do you have, what engineers have you gotten written responses from, what proof of any of your claims can you offer?

I observe the forum and the reports people make of issues. Everyone is so concerned about this bypass design from the thermostat, but ignoring the reality that there are MULTIPLE pathways that are never closed for that same bypass to exist.

The EGR cooler outlet from the head, loops back to the inlet, bypassing the thermostat completely, it is never closed.
The oil cooler outlet from the block, loops back to the inlet, bypassing the thermostat completely, it is never closed.
The heater loop through the viscous heater exits from the middle of the thermostat, bypassing the thermostat completely, it is never closed.
The off-gas port from the thermostat exits from the middle of the thermostat to the coolant bottle and right back to the inlet, it is never closed.

Observation is a key of any scientist's tool box, yet you seem incapable of it on your own. This is an easy one to observe and test. If there was no flow when the thermostat bypass is closed as you contend, how would the cooling system be able to be filled without heating the thermostat (either idea) up to the opening temperature?

So what formal training do you have that justifies you claiming what someone else thinks, and questioning anyone else? You want to make the accusations, but never answer any questions yourself, you just jump right to attacking me. I DO NOT ADVOCATE ANY PARTICULAR DESIGN OF THERMOSTAT. LET PEOPLE OBSERVE AND DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES WHAT THEY WANT.

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These are the facts!
If the EGR cooler is removed and center head fitting capped and all hoses removed and you have a failed totally open OEM thermostat which means the bypass valve within the thermostat is fully closed all the time allowing NO flow through it.
IF you have installed an in-line thermostat. There is NO FLOW through the head until such time heat can migrate through the coolant to the in-line thermostat and start it to opening allowing some flow to take place from the head into the radiator.

This means that the coolant in the head is totally stagnant (stopped, deadheaded) during every warmup cycle of operation of the engine and who knows what kind of temperatures the head and / or head gasket are subjected to before any flow begins to take place. (HOTSPOTS)

As to the oil cooler, the flow through it comes off the water pump discharge and is returned stright back into the water pump suction so it's flow has absolutely nothing to do with coolant flow through the head.

As to the flow off the thermostat to the viscous heater and heater core, this allowed flow is extremely small through the head, it simply returns to the water pump suction. Due to hose sizing and flow rates that are very restricted through the viscous heater and then the heater core, it may not provide sufficient enough flow through the head during the critical warm up cycles to protect the head from possible hot spots or overheating. (edit)

As to the vent off the thermostat back to the degasser tank, it is simply a vent to allow any air or gases to vent back to the degasser tank by design. Again this flow never allows any flow through the head ever.

I stand by my earlier statement!
Installing an in-line thermostat is a very, very bad and risky modification for this engine due to it's coolant flow design if it has a failed OEM thermostat due to the facts above.
Anyone doing so is taking a monumental and possibly a very expensive risk! But it is your vehicle, to each his own, you can do whatever you desire.
I for one would never recommend doing this mod to a Jeep CRD no matter what anyone on this forum tells you!!!!

To understand the coolant flow of this engine, please study the coolant flow diagram below I drew and I believe most will fully understand the ramifications of why not to ever do this...

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
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Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount
98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve