First start in over a year. Doesn't sound right?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:33 am

sbarne3 wrote:

flash7210 wrote:

The hand pump should remain firm until you start the engine.

So does that mean I have a leak somewhere? I don't see any puddles on the ground

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Have you tried opening the bleeder when you pump it up?
You should get a solid stream of fuel flowing out.
If it spits, sputters, or bubbles, then you have a air in fuel problem.

I use a Facet 40109 in-line pump mounted next to the fuel filter.
It always keeps the fuel filter under pressure and has a check valve to prevent drain back.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:15 pm

Doesn't white smoke like that usually indicate unburnt fuel? Like if I start my jeep cold in the dead of winter and it takes a few seconds to get going it will blow out a brief poof of white smoke as it clears out that fuel from the first few strokes.

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rankom · **Posted:** Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:43 pm

i would be checking rail pressure and see if any codes related to fuel pressure , we had guys in the past replacing everything before they do any of these tests , some gone replacing CP3 pump , ignoring advices to cap injectors , and so on , dont want to speak to BOSCH guys , so please back up and do some basic tests first ,if rail is loosing pressure you need to know now .

sbarne3 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:33 pm **Posts:** 82

rankom wrote:

i would be checking rail pressure and see if any codes related to fuel pressure , we had guys in the past replacing everything before they do any of these tests , some gone replacing CP3 pump , ignoring advices to cap injectors , and so on , dont want to speak to BOSCH guys , so please back up and do some basic tests first ,if rail is loosing pressure you need to know now .

How would I go about checking the rail pressure?

sbarne3 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:33 pm **Posts:** 82

flash7210 wrote:

sbarne3 wrote:

flash7210 wrote:

The hand pump should remain firm until you start the engine.

So does that mean I have a leak somewhere? I don't see any puddles on the ground

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Have you tried opening the bleeder when you pump it up?
You should get a solid stream of fuel flowing out.
If it spits, sputters, or bubbles, then you have a air in fuel problem.

I use a Facet 40109 in-line pump mounted next to the fuel filter.
It always keeps the fuel filter under pressure and has a check valve to prevent drain back.

Yeah... I get a solid stream

sbarne3 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:33 pm **Posts:** 82

GordnadoCRD wrote:

The leak could be internal. Possibly the check valve that is designed to prevent the bled pressurized diesel on the CP3 side, from backing through to the inlet side of the plunger pump.

So am I in over my head? I know what a cp3 is (only because I googled it), but I don't even know where it's located on our little tractors

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:50 pm

the check valve I'm referring to is not on the CP3. From what I can tell on these, the CP3 rarely fails.

The checkvalve is in the fuel filter head, between the plunger pump, and the CP3.
When you hand pump the plunger, it gets firm when you have pressure to the CP3.
That checkvalve is what makes it possible to hold pressure.
If it leaks, the pressure drops when the fuel leaks back from the CP3 side, to the tank side.

Installing a proper lift pump takes this problem out of the equation completely.
Installing an in-tank lift pump, additionally, takes all sources of potential air leak from the tank to the cp3, out of the equation as well.

sbarne3 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:33 pm **Posts:** 82

Thanks everyone... it seems as though all signs are pointing to some sort of fuel problem.
Either the check valve on the fuel filter head or possibly a fuel injector.

When I look at all of the symptoms there is one thing that could explain them all... A problem with one or more of the injectors

the loss in pressure on the hand pump (if an injector is stuck open it could be dumping fuel when I increase pressure on the line)
the white smoke (an indicator of uncombusted fuel, right? The smoke smells strongly of diesel fuel)
the rough idle and difficulty starting

mass-hole · **Posted:** Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:24 pm

sbarne3 wrote:

Thanks everyone... it seems as though all signs are pointing to some sort of fuel problem.
Either the check valve on the fuel filter head or possibly a fuel injector.

When I look at all of the symptoms there is one thing that could explain them all... A problem with one or more of the injectors

the loss in pressure on the hand pump (if an injector is stuck open it could be dumping fuel when I increase pressure on the line)
the white smoke (an indicator of uncombusted fuel, right? The smoke smells strongly of diesel fuel)
the rough idle and difficulty starting

Why don't you pull the injector from the smoky cylinder and soak it in a fuel additive or something overnight in case it's stuck open and just dumping fuel. That's a lot of smoke just at idle.

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GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:36 pm

You can eliminate #1.
The hand pump will never deliver sufficient pressure to have any effect on the fuel in the rail, (or at any injector).

That's not to say there isn't a problem with one or more of the injectors. (a problem that you don't know if it exists)
Just that the injectors could have nothing to do with the hand plunger pump losing pressure. (a problem you know for sure that exists.)

Don't try to jump ahead to some theoretical answer. Take what you know, and eliminate one problem at a time.

White smoke could be unburned fuel, but is only one of a handful of things that can cause it. Air-in-fuel being another one of them.

One way to test for that, is get about 2 feet of clear hose5/16 or 3/8 inch. Attach it between the Fuel Filter outlet, and the existing fuel hose to the CP3 with hose clamps, and arch it upwards. If the system is pulling air, you will see it rise to the top of the arch. DO NOT LEAVE THE CLEAR HOSE THERE. Only use it for testing purpose. Diesel will dissolve it over time, and could leave you or family stranded, but it will allow you to see if anything's happening now.

joe_ · **Posted:** Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:40 pm

sbarne3 wrote:

Thanks everyone... it seems as though all signs are pointing to some sort of fuel problem.
Either the check valve on the fuel filter head or possibly a fuel injector.

When I look at all of the symptoms there is one thing that could explain them all... A problem with one or more of the injectors

the loss in pressure on the hand pump (if an injector is stuck open it could be dumping fuel when I increase pressure on the line)
the white smoke (an indicator of uncombusted fuel, right? The smoke smells strongly of diesel fuel)
the rough idle and difficulty starting

I'm still convinced you're missing compression in one of your cylinders. In the video you linked in the first post, it doesn't sound right when cranking.

sbarne3 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:33 pm **Posts:** 82

What does that mean? 'missing compression'

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joe_ · **Posted:** Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:02 pm

Not really sure, could be a rocker that's out of place, a valve that's stuck partially open, or something else. But as it's cranking, you can hear 3 compression strokes, then sort of a "skip", then three more compression strokes, and another "skip"...
I could be wrong about it, but it would explain the rough idle and unburnt fuel coming out as white smoke.

rankom · **Posted:** Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:57 pm

Joe is right about his theory in this scenario , if the engine was able to run and stay running. this is a common rail system so now we have problem, engine starts smokes badly and quits. so how do u go about it if we dont have proper tools , scanners compression testers etc , so now we have fuel going to cp3 pump no air , so my question is how do you diagnosed it without these tools ,say you are so far in the bush , so you need to diagnosed and you have only one chance so you can started it and go home , atleast on 3 cylinders , give me some ideas ,

sbarne3 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:33 pm **Posts:** 82

Thanks everyone... It sounds like the consensus is that I need to check compression next.

Does anyone know if the kit from Harbor Freight will work?

https://www.harborfreight.com/compressi ... 62638.html

rankom · **Posted:** Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:51 pm

do you have anybody in your area that can give you a hand and has scan tool that can read codes and monitor fuel pressure? if you pull injectors to do compression test please take them to fuel shop for testing . im not sure if you can find each cylinder TDC on compression stroke with injectors removed VALVE CLOSED , you can pressurize that cylinder with air use rubber tip blow gun if you have air compressor ? if no leak then vales are not bent or damaged , my self i have some crazy methods when i diagnose something , but if you need to skip all this then atleast take injectors to BOSCH shop , then we can advice more .

sbarne3 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:33 pm **Posts:** 82

rankom wrote:

do you have anybody in your area that can give you a hand and has scan tool that can read codes and monitor fuel pressure? if you pull injectors to do compression test please take them to fuel shop for testing . im not sure if you can find each cylinder TDC on compression stroke with injectors removed VALVE CLOSED , you can pressurize that cylinder with air use rubber tip blow gun if you have air compressor ? if no leak then vales are not bent or damaged , my self i have some crazy methods when i diagnose something , but if you need to skip all this then atleast take injectors to BOSCH shop , then we can advice more .

I was under the impression that you pull the glow plugs to do the compression test and not the injectors. Am I wrong on that?

Can you give me a better name than "fuel shop"? When I search for that I just get a list of nearby gas stations

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:29 pm

Something like this

https://oregonfuelinjection.com/product-category/jeep-diesel/2005-2006-2-8-l-jeep-liberty-diesel/

Don't know your locale, but could be something closer. These guys are great though.

joe_ · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:01 am

sbarne3 wrote:

I was under the impression that you pull the glow plugs to do the compression test and not the injectors. Am I wrong on that?

Normally, yes, but this engine seems to be an exception to most rules. The adapter listed in the service manual is VM.1072A, which goes in place of an injector. You may be able to find a place that rents them out.

Another option is this Harbor Freight kit. I haven't heard of anyone here using this so I don't know for sure whether it would work, but it at least lists an adapter with the same thread as this engine's glow plugs (M10 x 1.0).

sbarne3 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:33 pm **Posts:** 82

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Something like this

https://oregonfuelinjection.com/product-category/jeep-diesel/2005-2006-2-8-l-jeep-liberty-diesel/

Don't know your locale, but could be something closer. These guys are great though.

Thanks... I'm in the Dallas area though so that's a little far for me

I did find these guys in Fl that accept injectors by mail and they seem reasonably priced. $15 for testing/ $25 for testing and cleaning (and they only clean if it needs it)
http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/flow-testing

First start in over a year. Doesn't sound right?

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