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 Post subject: cool running
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Location: Plymouth England
My 2005 Cherokee 2.8 limited runs cool even pulling a boat of 1.6 tons it never gets above the 1/4 mark on the gauge, at night it will sink to 1/8th of the gauge, would it be the thermostat? also I want to Improve the headlight bulbs, I don't fancy HID or LED what bulbs are about that you have tried?

thanks

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:22 pm 
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You most definitely need a new thermostat.

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:25 am 
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Would running cool effect the economy? is there different temperature stats for different climates?

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:46 am 
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Yes, you lose 10% or more in mpg, no the OEM tstat is a sealed housing the only option for different tstats is the HDS unit and even then folks don't change to different temperature tstats based on location that I know of. The temperature of the tstat is based on engine efficiency not ambient temperatures.

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:15 am 
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Thanks for the info papaindigo will non OEM parts be ok as the OEM are twice the price, I see now why the last owner never changed the part in the UK originals are £100+

I there no repair that can be done or is it sealed?

john

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:35 am 
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You can look here for my own version of an inline thermostat. Made from Ford Contour/Mondeo thermostat housing from the v6. Piped with a return back to the reservoir bottle. I'm running 192 degree moto-rad thermostat in it. Posted pictures of it on jeep liberty CRD facebook page also.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80231&p=852686&hilit=Junkyard+thermostat#p852686

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:15 am 
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dennyb wrote:
You can look here for my own version of an inline thermostat. Made from Ford Contour/Mondeo thermostat housing from the v6. Piped with a return back to the reservoir bottle. I'm running 192 degree moto-rad thermostat in it. Posted pictures of it on jeep liberty CRD facebook page also.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80231&p=852686&hilit=Junkyard+thermostat#p852686

A problem I see with this one is just like all in-line thermostats when used with a FAILED OPEN OEM thermostat!
When the OEM thermostat fails in the OPEN position, it has closed the normal bypass flow path off 100% of the time so, if you add any kind of in-line thermostat there will be very little flow through the head until such time as the in-line thermostat opens up and allows flow to/through the radiator.

At least your Ford inline setup has a small bypass flow to help facilitate faster response time on the in-line thermostat, but even with that and the small flow going to the viscous heater from the top of OEM thermostat, it is somewhat small in comparison to the large bypass flow allowed through the head in a fully functioning thermostat in the original position. :roll:

:SOMBRERO:

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:50 am 
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joohn wrote:
Thanks for the info papaindigo will non OEM parts be ok as the OEM are twice the price, I see now why the last owner never changed the part in the UK originals are £100+

I there no repair that can be done or is it sealed?

john

There are non OEM replacement thermostat housings available but they are generally of poor quality and prone to early failure. (saw one on ebay for $35)
Some folks have modified their factory thermostat housings but that method requires some careful machining and/or aluminum welding.
And there are still some simple but risky thermostat mods out there. Its up to you want to risk trying.

Your two best and most reliable options are getting either the OEM part or the HDS model.

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Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:11 am 
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Ditto to flash7210 with the note that Crown replacements are junk. £100+ is in line with OEM cost here in the States.

A note for TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK - a 10% mpg loss is NOT a rough estimate. It is in fact a hand calculated GPS corrected documented fact from a number of months driving my 05. Yes it was in the not too cold climate of N. Florida as my signature indicates. And yes the loss would likely be higher in colder areas especially in the winter (my loss was a bit more than 10% in what passes for winter down here) although how much it would be masked by the loss in mpg due to winter fuel I have no clue.

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Last edited by papaindigo on Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:13 am 
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Another home built. Machine original for replaceable thermostat.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/255347647 ... 0889214996

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:26 pm 
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A failed thermostat will most definitely affect fuel economy... a 10% drop is a rough estimate for someone in a warm environment. Up here in Canada that equates to at least a 20% drop in the winter.

Other than O.E. replacement part available from your friendly local stealership, (expensive, and do not last much longer than about 50,000 miles), the very cheaply made Crown copies, (even poorer quality and prone to fail even sooner), the home built alternatives using modified O.E. housings and the Hot Diesel Solutions Model 001, there are no alternatives.

When you go to change an O.E. part to something from the aftermarket, it is wise to examine carefully what the engineers who designed your engine have done and find an aftermarket part that copies the function of the O.E. part exactly, and still provides the benefits of improved performance and quality. For the CRD engine thermostat, no modification of the O.E. part accomplishes this except perhaps Mark Kapalczynski's design... good luck trying to find the parts to get this done in North America, however. You may perhaps have better luck in the U.K.

However, the Model 001 provides a significant increase in performance of the cooling system and copies the function of the O.E. part exactly. It offers a choice of temperatures to run your engine at and WILL NEVER FAIL YOU, as the custom made housings are appropriately sized to fit the Hemi V-8 thermostat valves it uses and are immensely strong because they are machined from solid blocks of 6061 T6 aluminum. The Model 001 also has accessory threaded ports that will take commonly available temperature sending units if you want to convert to an electric cooling fan or install an accurate engine temperature gauge.

Remember the R425 and R428 engines have an aluminum cylinder head on iron block design, and the cylinder head has been criticized as being a less than stellar design. A cooling system failure on this engine quite often results in a cylinder head gasket failure or worse. The cooling system on these engines are not a good area to be experimenting with backyard fixes.


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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:28 am 
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Fitted a new thermostat in housing it gets warmer just above 1/4 but if I drive in traffic it cools down to 1/8 on the gauge, is this right?

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:17 am 
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joohn wrote:
Fitted a new thermostat in housing it gets warmer just above 1/4 but if I drive in traffic it cools down to 1/8 on the gauge, is this right?

I guess it depends on you local driving conditions.

How cold is it outside?
How fast/hard are you driving it?
It will heat up faster at 55mph than 35mph.
Depending on how cold it is outside, you should be fully warmed up within 10-15 minutes.

What thermostat did you install?

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Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, 255-75-17 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:58 am 
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joohn please clarify what you mean by "fitted a new thermostat in housing". It's impossible to fit a new thermostat in OEM housing as it's sealed unless you have modified the housing to allow it to be opened and resealed. In any case it's also impossible for a fully functional thermostat to run at the indicated temps you describe; even in arctic cold the temps should be higher. If the weather is cold AND you have an OEM tstat housing AND the tstat has failed open thereby closing off the bypass circuit and immediately directing all coolant flow to the radiator then a functional temp gauge will likely never get above 1/4-3/8s.

Run a gauge check by by holding the trip odometer button while turning the ignition on which will cycle the lights and gauges; the temp gauge should cycle C, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, F if not you have an instrument cluster problem. Also you can use an inexpensive IR temperature gun to check actual temps at the thermostat housing; if they are higher than the dash gauge indicates AND that gauge passes the cluster check you have a bad temp sending problem on the back of the OEM tstat housing that needs replacing.

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:12 am 
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Took it for a 40 mile run yesterday temp went up to the middle of the gauge but when I was in traffic and the speed came down to 15 for 10 mins the temp dropped to 1/4, below the first mark and went up again after when I speeded up.

happy it's warmer in the cab too.

thanks for your help

john

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Something isn't right here. Once it reaches temp it should stay there and basically not move visually. Unless you park it and let it idle for 20+ minutes, then it MIGHT drop down some. If your temp gauge is moving at all after it has fully warmed up then you have something wrong. You indicated that you changed the internal thermostat...how? The thermostat on these vehicles is a sealed unit and the whole assembly needs to be replaced. If you replaced the whole assembly and are still getting temp swings then you most likely have a flow problem. Air trapped in the system or blockages can cause things like you're describing. I think you have a serious problem that needs to be addressed before damage is done to your Jeep.

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Hopefully the OP will listen to you but I raised the same point on the 11th and have been ignored so.....

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:21 pm 
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APC9199 wrote:
Something isn't right here. Once it reaches temp it should stay there and basically not move visually. Unless you park it and let it idle for 20+ minutes, then it MIGHT drop down some. If your temp gauge is moving at all after it has fully warmed up then you have something wrong. You indicated that you changed the internal thermostat...how? The thermostat on these vehicles is a sealed unit and the whole assembly needs to be replaced. If you replaced the whole assembly and are still getting temp swings then you most likely have a flow problem. Air trapped in the system or blockages can cause things like you're describing. I think you have a serious problem that needs to be addressed before damage is done to your Jeep.

I agree, something don't add up here! :roll:

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Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
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Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/Hayden HD clutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:32 pm 
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This isnt normal for any car. Why would you pack up and leave like the problem is solved if it was still dropping down to 1/4. :BANANA:

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 Post subject: Re: cool running
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:52 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
APC9199 wrote:
Something isn't right here. Once it reaches temp it should stay there and basically not move visually. Unless you park it and let it idle for 20+ minutes, then it MIGHT drop down some. If your temp gauge is moving at all after it has fully warmed up then you have something wrong. You indicated that you changed the internal thermostat...how? The thermostat on these vehicles is a sealed unit and the whole assembly needs to be replaced. If you replaced the whole assembly and are still getting temp swings then you most likely have a flow problem. Air trapped in the system or blockages can cause things like you're describing. I think you have a serious problem that needs to be addressed before damage is done to your Jeep.

I agree, something don't add up here! :roll:



In all likelihood he has taken the advice of people who do not like me and has done some modification to the O.E. thermostat assembly.

I do not recall receiving any direct responses to me from joohn; either from a private message or an e-mail I sent to him through LOSTJEEPS.com. I did receive a response from LOSTJEEPS to the e-mail indicating that joohn has responded, but there is no message from joohn. There is simply a message that thermostat information has been sent to his private e-mail address.


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