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 Post subject: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Well I ended up getting one of the CRDs that I was looking at, that the PO expected needed a new HG. I was ordering parts to do the obvious things while trying to figure out what really is going on with the engine. I'd like to get opinions from the experts here, to see if what I am thinking makes sense.

PO had reported a slow coolant leak (going down in the res) and in one case a cloud of white smoke. He was thinking head gasket although the white smoke did not reappear but the coolant was still going down. No overheating or signs of oil-collant mixing, and no sign of exhaust in the coolant. Other issues I noticed were: A glow plug code for #2, and A LOT of oil up on the valve cover with it wettest with oil around the CCV. Otherwise the CRD ran pretty well the little I had driven it, no excessive smoke or other problems.

I did some initial checking for coolant leaks, and think I have found a good sized one at the thermostat-head connection, a bunch of dried antifreeze crust which was wet underneath when broken off. Great I thought I found the coolant leak. That was going to be my next fix.

Got new Bosch 5v GP's and was trying to put them in as the first step as I can't get tags until it passes emissions and it won't pass emissions with a CEL. I was also going to crank the engine while the GPs were out to see if any coolant comes out. Unfortunately the GP removal has gone pretty badly. I pulled #2 first as it was the one with the code. It came out and was sooty but complete, no problem. Hey I thought I was home free. But I ran into problems with the other GPs. #1 broke off just under the threads, the SS sheath that covers some of the ceramic and has the sealing cone is still in the head. #3 was worse, it broke off mid threads leaving the bottom of the threads and GP in the head. It's getting a bit hard to see in there, but #4 appears to have separated at the nut, so that when I spin it the nut and top part of the GP turn but the threads and lower GP do not, still all in there but 6 threads out. All in all a disaster. Not sure entirely what, if anything I did wrong. I had the block heated and warm, plenty of PB Blaster on the GPs, did not use excessive force. And I've changed GPs on about 8 or 9 engines before, without issues. Just not my day I guess :oops: But if anyone has any thoughts as to what I did wrong or what 3 GPs breaking off might indicate in the engine, I'd like to learn from this if possible. Maybe a bunch of carbon inside the combustion chamber gluing thoe GPs in?

So I am making plans for a HG and perhaps a new head, and wanted to get the advice of folks here about some of the choices and what I can or cannot do given the state of the GPs remaining in the head.

1. I'm assuming that I should not move the crank until the head is off and any GP remnants are cleaned out of the cyl. Is that right, or does twisting the top off a GP necessarily mean the ceramic bottom part has broken free? Would it be OK to move the crank by hand to get the alignment pins in place or too risky?

2. I suppose when the head comes off it should be pretty obvious if there is coolant in any of the cyls. Even if not, it still leaves the question of does this head have a small crack in it someplace which caused the white smoke every so often. Does it make sense to try and salvage this head or go with one of the reconditioned heads from VM in GB? What do folks think and what's their experience with those heads? It seems that the reconditioned head from them is about the same price (or maybe even less) as one would pay at a machine shop to do the work on the old one.

3. Also be interested in hearing if new valves or maybe just exhaust valves would be good insurance. What do folks think?

4. I hadn't really expected the GP job to go this badly (or really badly at all), and thought that I'd have a running engine now to figure out the oil slick on the top of the valve cover. Might be as simple as a bad CCV or its gasket. In any case I'd like to get a handle on that before throwing a bunch of new parts and my time elsewhere on this engine, possibly in vain. So again, any thoughts from the experts here: The valve cover is covered with oil and attached dirt, mostly on top, worst around the CCV but the oil goes over to the drivers side and quite a ways to the front. One other place I found oil was the EGR tube which goes to the intake elbow. I removed that to get GP access, and noticed a bit of oil coming out of the ERG (or is it the cooler there) when the tub was freed. Any thoughts about what might be the cause of this oil and what it might mean about the state of this engine. (BTW, I did confirm this CRD has the GDE eco tune)

5. I'm assuming that along with the HG and new head (or rebuilt one) I'd be putting in the usual, new TB and kit, new WP, new rockers (no noises but at 140K miles). Any other parts that I should be replacing?

Thoughts and diagnosis of what's wrong all appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:02 am 
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If you want any assistance in person, I am about to depart on a CRD trip and could add you to the itinerary.

That said, here is a list of my thoughts:

The oil on top of the valve cover is 99% from the CCV, it can get everywhere very easily. The hose softens with the hot air escaping and allows leaking, then tightens up again as it cools, hiding the problem. A hose clamp can solve this, and then a LOT of parts wash. Take the valve cover to a machine shop and have them clean it. It will be worth it.

The head: Is probably just fine. The machine shop can check it for flatness / cracks / issues, they can clean it, they can change the valves for you and lap them in. Most of all, they can get the glow plugs out. Let them do it.

Disassembly: You do NOT need to worry about the timing or the pins now. NOT IMPORTANT b/c the timing will have to be set AFTER you reassemble everything. Pull the top off with wanton disassembly, keep the parts organized, take the head and the valve cover to a machine shop to have them cleaned and checked.

Parts:
2-hole head gasket. Always.
Valves. Definitely the exhaust, intake highly suggested. It isn't that much more expensive to do them all and the labor is the same.
ARP studs
rockers
Various seals and gaskets
Run The Bosch 5v plugs you got on the 7v program, people are reporting good results with that.
Complete EGR delete (Weeks elbow kit and stage 2)
Timing belt and water pump kit
New airbox-to-turbo hose, it is probably shredded anyway.

Email me if you would like my assistance on this, I will likely be leaving this week and can offer my skills to get your CRD on the road way quicker than you would expect. I usually do this entire job (minus the glow plug disaster you had) in two days.

In all likelihood, the glow plugs were overtightened and that caused them to crush and shear. I've seen it happen way too often. 15 ft-lbs is plenty.

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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Steve777 wrote:
5. I'm assuming that along with the HG and new head (or rebuilt one) I'd be putting in the usual, new TB and kit, new WP, new rockers (no noises but at 140K miles). Any other parts that I should be replacing?
Thoughts and diagnosis of what's wrong all appreciated.

As to the GP's, you did nothing wrong, others have reported them breaking or shearing off when trying to remove, but I believe your 3 out of 4 sets the record! :shock:
They actually make some specialized tools to remove broken GP's, but since you are going to remove the head for other issues anyway, no need for them.

I did not see it mentioned, but be sure are tag (label) your injectors and put them back in the same exact cylinder location they came from. VERY IMPORTANT!
They are coded by a number from the factory in the ECM for their location for flow efficiency. :wink:

As to valves; yes, replace all the exhaust valves for sure while you got the head off! Intakes your call, but I do not believe anyone has reported dropping an intake valve, only exhaust ones. But peace of mind and not much additional cost if you replace them.
And replace all rockers/lifters and install ARP studs while you have the head off. Very good pro-active items!

Advice: Install a Week's Elbow Kit (Sasquatch Parts.com) and get rid of all the EGR valve, EGR cooler & hoses, EGR feed tube, and FCV crap! Your engine will thank you for doing this not to mention keeping all that soot from the EGR out of the engine oil!
https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/product ... berty-crd/
No electronic tune can completely eliminate any leakby in either direction of the EGR system, only removing it completely can do that!
You already got a GDE tune, so you can get an updated tune from them to get rid of any DTC's created by removing the above items from your engine. :wink:

As to GP replacement, 7 volt etecno METAL glow plugs are available for this engine! There are mixed reviews on them; people in the colder climates are not crazy about them.
Some on LOST have installed the 5 volt GP's and are reporting good results using them on the 7 volt GP system so far. They say they work much better at the lower temperatures.
I installed the 7 volt GP's last year and have had no issues with them, but I live in the warm south where it rarely gets below the 20's during the winter months.
IMPORTANT item on GP's; do not overtighten them, ~10-11 ft. lbs (110 in. lbs from FSM) is plenty tight! Overtightening them will damage them real quick!

If it were me, I certainly would set the crank at the notch (3:00 pin position) if you can rotate the engine safely without hitting any hard spots; if you hit a hard spot pull head as is. Pinning cams not necessary since you will be removing everything on the top end anyway and will have to set timing when you reassemble engine... :idea:

Need anymore help, just ask, many helpful members on LOST more than willing to help!

:SOMBRERO:

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/Hayden HD clutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:57 pm 
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I totally agree with above . Other options :

Depending on if the glow plug holes will be sealed if your replace ones removed with either old or new. If compression not leaking through them you may be able to attach the glow plugs ,possibly the new ones to the harness, and you may have to ground them, but assuming they are good you will likely get your check engine light to go out, the computer checks for resistance of the plug. This would only be helpful if you intend to restart your engine to try to pass the inspection. I am unclear if any part of glow plugs actually fell into the engine. Sounds like maybe tip of one glow plug did and some others may be partially removed.

You can also get brand new head with valves and guarantee from ID parts . I think 1700 plus.

You may also need a new thermostat if you didn't look to see if temp rose to almost half way on gauge while it was running but you could definitely wait till it runs again and see.

You can do a coolant pressure test as the engine is . If it passes or you fix or eliminate the sources of leak you know about and then it passes you won't need to change the head gasket. If it doesn't pass, and all other sources of leak ruled out ( DONT FORGET THE RADIATOR CAP !!!) you can seal the glow plug holes as possible and probably demonstrate which cylinder or cylinders are leaking. But now that GPs broke off etc you need to remove head anyway.

You may not see where the coolant leak was if its head gasket . 2 of 3 of ones I replaced were leaking between the layers of the gasket presumably due to loosen head bolts.

I recommend the timing kit, water pump, EGR delete by whatever method you choose but a physical delete not just electronic like WW says , New or reman head or at least new exhaust valves, New rockers, ARP studs, HG, I would get the HG kit (I used 2 hole like geordi recommended but some prefer original thickness gasket) even though you don't need the new bolts in kit, if you get ARPs, it has the injector washers and seals and some gaskets etc you will need. Of course other non engine related things like lift pump etc you can do separately.

In my opinion you can rotate the engine by hand , stopping for any increased resistance , without doing any harm. I just like to keep the engine in time and put pins in. I may be wrong but I believe I just left valve cover pins in when changed out head and replaced it still pinned and crank pinned and did exactly what I would do on timing belt service , no retiming engine, but I did check through injector holes the piston positions just for the heck of it. You will need the HOAT coolant also.

All I can say is allow plenty of time at least 20 hours or so, probably more, if you do all above work at same time and have fun :-)r

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05 Blu LIM, OME GDE Tbo, wk II,, 255/75/17 BFG Mud, KC Lights, bull bar, 161K H TC
05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 Dueler AT, 188K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 98K wkII Eur TC
01 F350 7.3L Du
CRDS: Fumoto, Kennedy Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:59 pm 
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And forgot I would also get the air box to turbo hose about $63 on eBay and upgrade to same or mitsubishi or ID parts silicone intercooler hoses if hasn't been done last time I checked IDs about $199.

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05 Blu LIM, OME GDE Tbo, wk II,, 255/75/17 BFG Mud, KC Lights, bull bar, 161K H TC
05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 Dueler AT, 188K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 98K wkII Eur TC
01 F350 7.3L Du
CRDS: Fumoto, Kennedy Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:11 pm 
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TKB4 wrote:
And forgot I would also get the air box to turbo hose about $63 on eBay and upgrade to same or mitsubishi or ID parts silicone intercooler hoses if hasn't been done last time I checked IDs about $199.

X2 Good point!
And pulling the head, I would replace the CCV puck/gasket on the valve cover and strongly suggest adding a ProVent coalescing filter to the CCV system...

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/Hayden HD clutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Thanks guys. Had to put this on the back burner for a couple of weeks as I attended to other priorities, but I'm ready to jump back in. [Also FWIW, a couple of replies came in but I didn't get an email notice so I didn't see them for a while. Seems that has happened before, I get an email on the first reply and then they just stop???]

Had planned on doing all the TBelt things while the head was off (the one on there is only 43K miles old but as long as I am in there). And the water pump. I have a new thermostat which was going on anyhow. And I thought ARP studs and a good cleaning of some things.

Two areas I have some questions about (before I start turning wrenches that is) are:

1. Anyone know of any write-ups or videos for the head gasket job? I'm looking at Sir Sam's series on the Tbelt, which is probably a good start. But it's the beyond that to get the head off that I am curious about. Any tricks? Do people usually remove the manifolds or is it easier to pull the head with them on (I know with the VW TDI, I usually pulled the head with the turbo/exhaust as that was easier than taking the exhaust manifod off in the car)? Would an engine hoist be helpful? Things like that...

2. Second, I am wondering about whether to try and get the current head "fixed" at a machine shop, or order a referb'd one from VM in England. Cost is not all that different by the time they take out the stuck GPs and do a valve job, and at least the VM folks are very familiar with these engines and parts. Anyone have any experience with their heads and machine shop work?

No doubt, I'll be back to ask more questions as this proceeds...

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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:23 pm 
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I followed the timing belt proceedure and then just starting pulling everything else off. I felt it was easier leaving the manifold/turbo on the head. I had a buddy lift it out with me. It wasn't bad at all. I think a hoist would be overkill.

I would have a machine shop at least pressure test and see if the head is still good. Then go from there. I had one test mine, drill a broken glow plug, drill and tap a boost sensor hole and hot tank the intake. Think it came out to like $80

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05 Liberty crd 185k miles / Lifters and rockers, arp studs, h.d.s. thermostat, weeks stage 1+2, carter lift pump with sasquatch harness, gen 2 filter head, hemi t/c, 245/70r16 bfg a/t ko2, on board air, uniden pro 520xl
4.10s with a detroit locker in the rear and e-locker up front
Next up....skids and GDE eco FT.


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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:44 pm 
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Wow Locked, I should bring my head to your shop :wink:

Around here, most of the small machine shops are no longer in business. There is one about 25mi away that has a good rep (NAPA stores use them), and I spoke with them. They actually have seen a few CRD heads, told me that of the 5 or so they have seen only one was not leaking. They would run about $400-500 to clean, test and do a valve job (not including the new exhaust valves), assuming of course this head does not leak. Getting the stuck GPs out would be additional.

That is going to be more than ordering a recon head from VM over in England. Of course the head they send is used as well but they do test them. I'd just like to hear a review from someone who has gotten one of their heads and how it worked out.

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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:23 pm 
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The head is a part that either houses or is connected to EVERY known engine related failure prone component.

I chose to go with a complete new head from IDParts. NO REGRETS.

It seems the question you need to answer, is if you have access to a reasonably local machine shop that you trust more than an overseas rebuilder. Because if something fails from the offshore rebuilder, what recompense or solution are you likely to get from them, versus a local machine shop that you can pop in on if something is wrong.

Well, that, and is the amount of price difference worth the risk.

Whatever you decide, I hope it works out well for you.
Good Luck!

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Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
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Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
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Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:13 pm 
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I also bought a head from Idparts. Although I didn't know about the remans at that point. Do believe my decision probably would've remained the same though.

Can't find the reciept. But if I remember correctly I don't think the machine shop charged for the glowplug repair because the head was no good.

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05 Liberty crd 185k miles / Lifters and rockers, arp studs, h.d.s. thermostat, weeks stage 1+2, carter lift pump with sasquatch harness, gen 2 filter head, hemi t/c, 245/70r16 bfg a/t ko2, on board air, uniden pro 520xl
4.10s with a detroit locker in the rear and e-locker up front
Next up....skids and GDE eco FT.


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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:40 pm 
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I took manifold off and left turbo attached to it but you do have to remove the turbo bracket that way.
If you do it this way need 1/4 inch flex ratchet with deep and shallow sockets and probably a 1/4 inch short breaker bar type tool to get to some of the bolts. the head itself is only about 40 lbs. The intake will be extremely messy well worth having shop clean it. You may also be able to get the new head like id has from european supplier. Just make sure you get at least new exhaust valves. You can look at papa indigos notes for the rocker writeup I think in tech write-ups. from there its just removing manifold etc and head. It would be nice to have it all written up in one place but it is really a timing belt/rocker/head gasket stepwise progression then reversed with whatever ancillaries such as elbow kit thermostat, GDE turbo etc.

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05 Blu LIM, OME GDE Tbo, wk II,, 255/75/17 BFG Mud, KC Lights, bull bar, 161K H TC
05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 Dueler AT, 188K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 98K wkII Eur TC
01 F350 7.3L Du
CRDS: Fumoto, Kennedy Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:53 am 
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Steve777 wrote:
Wow Locked, I should bring my head to your shop :wink:

Around here, most of the small machine shops are no longer in business. There is one about 25mi away that has a good rep (NAPA stores use them), and I spoke with them. They actually have seen a few CRD heads, told me that of the 5 or so they have seen only one was not leaking. They would run about $400-500 to clean, test and do a valve job (not including the new exhaust valves), assuming of course this head does not leak. Getting the stuck GPs out would be additional.

That is going to be more than ordering a recon head from VM over in England. Of course the head they send is used as well but they do test them. I'd just like to hear a review from someone who has gotten one of their heads and how it worked out.

When I pulled my head to replace what I thought was a leaking head gasket, I took the head to a machine shop and specifically asked them to check it for cracks.
I dont know what their test procedure was, but they didn't find the cracks. :x

After putting that head back on with new gasket and discovering I still had problems, I did my own test.
Here is what I did:

I took the engine back apart to where all the front timing components were off, intake and injectors off, and turbo and exhaust manifold removed. Trying to not remove any hoses or anything connected to the cooling system.
Then I topped off the coolant tank and pressurized the cooling system to 16psi and walked away for about 30 minutes.
When I came back I saw water dripping out of the exhaust ports.
That was pretty conclusive for me. The head was cracked.

I could have also cranked the engine over to see if water shot out the injector holes. Or tried looking into the intake ports. But at that point I knew I would be needing a new head.

I got a low mileage used head from VMspecialists in England. Everything shipped to me for under $600.
I wouldn't call it reconditioned head. Just a used head, checked for flatness, and was mostly clean (mostly).
That was 2.5 years ago and I have been very pleased with the results.

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Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, 255-75-17 tires.
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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:57 pm 
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Thanks Guys.

@GordnadoCRD, I'd agree. The head ends up touching (or affecting) almost all the other parts of the engine so you need to get it right. One other factor you didn't mention is the history of the old head. On the one in this CRD, it has been run for quite a while with an in-line thermostat. Not to open that can of worms on in-line thermos again, but one of the problems they can cause is overheating in the head and cracks from that. And I have heard several people now who have taken their heads to shops and they tested clean (no leaks), but once put back in they had the same slow coolant leak again. That alone would make me lean towards a different head than the one that is on there now, new or used. No point in fixing up a head which may have been showing signs of an internal crack, at least to me. [If the GP thing had not happened, I would have tried the thermostat change and seen if that fixed the slow coolant leak; but I figured probably only a 50-50 chance it would have and I'd be pulling the head anyways.]

@Flash, good to hear of someone who got one of the VM heads from Britain and it worked well. I am curious though, can you go into more detail about what you hinted at as far as the head they sent you not being clean? What were the issues? Did you have to do more cleaning before installing it? Also curious, did you have them replace any of the valves or other "extra" reconditioning work? I am under the impression, that their base head is cleaned, checked for cracks, valves removed and checked, valves reseated, and new valve seals put on. Is that what you got?

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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:35 am 
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Quote:
@Flash, good to hear of someone who got one of the VM heads from Britain and it worked well. I am curious though, can you go into more detail about what you hinted at as far as the head they sent you not being clean? What were the issues? Did you have to do more cleaning before installing it?
There were a couple dried leaves stuck in the coolant passages that I had to blow out with compressed air. Also, a couple of dings on the valve cover mating surface that I had to file smooth.

Also curious, did you have them replace any of the valves or other "extra" reconditioning work?
I didn't ask for any additional work. But I did ask for a few additional small items such as exhaust manifold nuts and a couple small gaskets. Those never arrived no matter how much they insisted that they were shipped.

I am under the impression, that their base head is cleaned, checked for cracks, valves removed and checked, valves reseated, and new valve seals put on. Is that what you got?
Maybe thats what they promised. I dont remember. Other than being cleaned, there is no way for me to verify that any additional work was performed.

Bottom line:
You gotta be patient with these guys. With the time zone difference and their work hours, it can be difficult to get a hold of them by phone and they are slow to respond to email.
Dont ask for anything extra and keep you expectations low.
When item is received, inspect it thoroughly, like you would with any used item.


In the end, I was pleased with my purchase and the received item met my needs.
I've put about 50,000 miles on it since installation.

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, 255-75-17 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:13 am 
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Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
The question on anyone that has had leaking after putting a used head back in service: Which gasket? Did they use studs? Did they coat all 4 surfaces with sealer before assembly? Have they proven that the leak is in the head and not a hose clamp somewhere else - the cold engine test is conclusive for this - and are they leaking combustion back into the water jacket?

I've seen hose clamp leaks after head gasket repairs. The spring clamps are not forever and aren't really reusable either.
If the 2-hole gasket wasn't used, then all bets are off. Same for studs.

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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Well, it's been almost 2 months since I thought I was going to have time to get back to this project, but as usual, things come up and life happens. But while I've said this before, I think I will be free to work on this CRD project some more now.

One thing I did when I found out that the CRD was being put on hold was to send an oil sample off to a lab for analysis. Glad I did, they told me the oil looked good in terms of wear metals, but that there were high levels of antifreeze in the oil, so there obviously is some HG issue or a crack in the head. Not entirely unexpected with an inline thermostat as the PO had put in this one. And no signs of metal wear gives me some hope that the bearings et al in the engine are doing OK.

I've proceeded in the tear down as far one would for a Tbelt change: front end stuff removed, fan removed, alt removed, viscous heater removed, with the front tbelt cover off. I am at the stage now where if it were a tbelt replacement, I'd be setting the pins and taking the cam sprockets off (to get the rear tbelt cover off and access the water pump). I have also read up in the service manual on how to removed the intake/valve cover and the head.

However I am a bit puzzled as to what I can do safely next. Given my "situation" with the glow plugs and how 3 of them have parts still in the head, I am wondering if it is safe for me to move the crank around to place the pins? I would only do it minimally and by hand but still it seems there is the potential if a GP tip broke off during removal attempt that it could score the cylinder walls. Adding to my dilemma is the fact that the service manual must warn you at least on every other page that you should do NOTHING with the intake or head until the crank is in 90deg past TDC position.

Seems to me that I should be fine pulling the intake/VC regardless of the crank/cam positions, and once the VC and cams are off, all the valves will spring up, so no collision worries. Of course need to set the cams and crank to the right positions with the pins before re-assembly, but that is still a ways off. The only possible "gotcha" in this plan would be if the spring action of the valves would cause the cams to rotate once the Tbelt and sprockets are off, possibly pushing other valves into pistons. Anyone know if this is a concern? Is it a bigger concern than scratching the cyl walls with GP pieces, I tend to think not, but don't know? Anyone out there know how the cams move if you release the tbelt without pinning them? Anything else I am missing here?

The service manual also warns not to move the crank with the head removed, or you could move the liners unless you install their special tool (which looks like a machined bars that bolt into the block and goes over the liners). Of course I could deal with this by rotating the crank to TDC+90 and pinning it after the intake/cams are off but before the head comes off.

I also pulled the old, non-functioning thermostat. As I noticed before, there were signs of a good sized leak around where it bolts to the head, and one of the mounting screws had rust on it a sign that water/antifreeze was getting in there. There was dried antifreeze all around the joint to the head and dripping down towards the exhaust manifold. Obviously will be replacing this tstat, but I am curious what if anything a leak here is saying (other than a bad install). The Tstat looks like the original one (140K miles) so maybe a bolt or two loosened up. Or perhaps a HG or head leak was causing over pressure and that was the weak spot? Thoughts?

Last question (for now anyway) is once I get the head off, what should I look for in terms of signs that the HG was leaking? I think it was Geordi who said that these HG tend to leak thru the layers of metal, not necessarily by eroding a channel. Is it likely that I could spot a HG leak? What would it look like?

Thanks.

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2006 KJ CRD


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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:48 am 
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Yes. If you remove the timing belt without pinning the cams they will move.

I wouldn’t worry about turning the crank by hand to line up the pins.

Use some sort of counter-hold tool to hold the sprockets when unbolting them.

The hardest part is usually removing the injectors. It just takes some persistence.

After you get the head removed, take it to a machine shop that can test it for cracks.

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, 255-75-17 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
Don't worry about the pins right now, you can disassemble the engine as it sits because you will have plenty of opportunity to rotate it to properly time it later. The cylinder liners are seated with both o-rings as well as a tight machined fit and getting them to move again is not something that would happen by accident. You can rotate the engine by hand and the liners won't move at all.

The two-hole head gasket is the proper size to select for reassembly, as well as a set of the ARB studs. Right now the bigger question is if there IS any actual damage to the head, and how that may have developed. The machine shop needs to test the head for leaks as well as warping. While they have it (and if it checks out) have the valves replaced and lapped in, since you have the opportunity it makes more sense to do all the upgrades when you are putting it back together. Right now, it is time to follow the evidence and see what actually happened. Many people will speculate, but evidence is important to know what really happened.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
Provider of high quality CRD service in your driveway.
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email (button below) is preferred to PM
Over 70 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Just remember: Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


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