It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:01 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:46 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2505
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
If you are talking about the oil return pipe from the bottom of the turbo, there is considerable movement available from the rubber grommet that guides it through the block into the crankcase.
If this is not sufficient, you can loosen the two small bolts that attach it to the bottom of the turbo center section.

If you are talking about the EGR pipe that goes around behind the head to the other side, that should be completely disconnected from the manifold. (Permanently, IMO)

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:48 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 6297
Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
He is having the oil supply for the turbo getting in the way of pushing the exhaust manifold toward the fender - I know why, that is not how you remove things.

Remove the lower turbo bracket and throw it as far from the CRD as you can. It is stupid and heavy and only "protects" the turbo drain line from a possible branch incursion if you are off-roading. You can otherwise lift the entire engine from the turbo, the turbo itself is plenty strong.

Remove the drain line from the turbo.
Now remove the turbo from the manifold.
Now you can see that either the oil feed or crossover pipe is still in your way, so just leave the manifold on the head and remove the head from the vehicle. You can't push the manifold off the way you were trying to, with that oil feed attached. It isn't worth the fight to mess with that supply line.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 125 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:24 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:31 pm
Posts: 279
Thanks Geordi, I believe you are right here. But the d**n FSM says that you can slide the exhaust manifold off the studs by just loosening the oil supply end of the oil line. It seems pretty clear with all those things done, that oil pipe's vertical part is in the way pf the manifold moving away from the head. I thought maybe, if I could loosen the bottom of the oil line at the block I could rotate around to gain clearance, for the manifold. But accessing those nuts at the bottom of that line are probably harder than just pulling the turbo as you suggest. So I guess that's the next step.

In the mean time I started in on the head bolts. Got as far as #7 which actually broke both my 11mm sockets. And these were good quality sockets (s-k wayne). So I've soaked #7 (along with the others) in some PB blaster. Curious if folks have any ideas on how to budge a stuck head bolt.

_________________
2006 KJ CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:12 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:07 pm
Posts: 398
Location: Southeast Michigan
Steve777 wrote:
I thought maybe, if I could loosen the bottom of the oil line at the block I could rotate around to gain clearance, for the manifold. But accessing those nuts at the bottom of that line are probably harder than just pulling the turbo as you suggest. So I guess that's the next step.
I've done it, but it's kind of tedious. You can get to it with a crowsfoot wrench and some extensions. And even then, it's one of those things where you turn it like 30° at a time, pulling the wrench off the nut and resetting it back to the starting point in order to turn the nut another 30°.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:38 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:31 pm
Posts: 279
Well, finally got the head off (pulled the turbo and took the head off with the exhaust manifold, as Geordi suggested). Many thanks to all for the advise thru this process.

Initial look at the insides hasn't shown any big surprises.

1. There was maybe a spoonful of antifreeze in the top of piston #1, also some carbon/dirt left on the top of the block there on the exhaust side, and the #1 inner head bolt there had rusty threads. So seems likely that was the antifreeze leak. Or at least one of them.

2. Piston tops all are very clean. No carbon to speak of, the markings and arrows are visible on all the pistons.

3. Did not see any obvious signs of cracks on the head or around the valves. But given that this head was run with an in-hose thermostat and started a HG and/or head leak, and has seized glow plugs, I will be picking up another head assembly from GB.

3. So I think the only things left are making a parts list and getting them in, and doing the usual cleanup prior to reassembly. Plan on replacing: the head, the TB and associated stuff including the water pump. Also plan on a set of ARP studs. new thermostat, glow plugs. 2 hole HG and new intake and exhaust gaskets, and turbo gaskets (drain and manifold).

4. The only thing I am not sure of is whether or not to replace the rockers. I was surprised when I took them out that they basically look new. No obvious play in the bearing (visually, have not mic'd it yet). And no wear on the arms themselves. Not way to tell but I suspect these are the still original rockers since the PO never mentioned having replaced them when he got the TB done. Any way to check these and feel confident about reusing them?

5. Cylinder walls (at least #2 and #3 look ok, no grooves and cross hatching is still visible mostly). I have waited to rotate the crank to check the others, just want to double check that moving the pistons without the factory hold-downs on the liners is really OK.

6. Was thinking of getting the injectors checked and cleaned while they are out. Any suggestions for an injector shop around Denver?

7. Anything else I should be checking, doing, replacing or working on while the engine is at this stage of dis-assembly?

Slow progress, but it's moving along.

_________________
2006 KJ CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:42 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 6297
Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
Likely the coolant on the piston means nothing at all - there will always be some droolage as you lift the head off. Rusty threads on the bolt also can mean nothing, but then again it might.

You won't be able to see any cracks in the head, but before you jump to any conclusions about any particular thermostat option being a causal relationship to anything else - Have the head actually checked by a machine shop. The conclusions that using the in-hose stop "all" coolant flow are false and have been disproven before, but people continue to repeat them for whatever reason.

On the rockers - if the lifters have a tapered base, then they are the new style which is fitted together with a copper snap ring in the top and may have better oil patterns. The old style are crimped at the top and have a "step" in the base rather than a taper. These sometimes come apart if the crimp fails, and could lead to oil pressure going in undesired locations. The rockers and cams are only splash lubricated so that little hole in the top is important.

Rotating the engine will not move the liners. They are held down by multiple o-rings at the bottom as well as tightly fitted at the top and (likely) partly rusted in place. They usually are quite the fight to extract even when you want them out.

Definitely get the injectors checked by a Bosch shop. Have the valve cover cleaned at a machine shop as well, maybe give them the exhaust manifold and have the studs extracted and replaced with stainless steel or grade 8 hardware. The factory studs (in the head too) are NOT rated, and crap. They break very easily.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 125 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:31 am 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:31 pm
Posts: 279
Thanks again Geordi.

Hmm. If some coolant in the piston well doesn't mean a coolant leak, then I am back to trying to pin down where that leak happened. There definitely is/was a leak: PO reported coolant going down regularly, white cloud on occasion, and the oil test I did found coolant in the oil above limits. I suppose testing the head might find something, but it seems a bit wasteful (not only of my $$ but there is ~4 hours of driving to/from the shop). And there are cases where the machine shops seem to miss leaks which later show up on reassembly.

I'd like to think that that puddle of coolant was the leak, but maybe not. Perhaps though if I am replacing the head with a new/reconditioned one from VM specialists, that will cover all the head related leaks, so I just should not worry about it? Certainly replacing the head with a recond'd low mileage one from VM Spec solves multiple issues: possible leaks/cracks, exhaust valves, and getting the stuck glow plugs out. It would run me almost 50% more at a machine shop here, with a not so great chance of success at finding the leak.

I'll check and see which style rockers I have. Given that these likely have 140k miles on them might be prudent to just throw in new ones.

Geordi, can you go into more details on how you use the copper spray. Which brand? Just on the HG on on the head/block surfaces as well? How thick a coat? And how long do you let it dry (full dry or assemble while tacky)? Just curious since you've seem to have had good results with it and I've never used it before.

On cleaning the VC at a shop, do you just let them do it with the cams installed or does one remove the cams prior to handing it over to the shop? (I guess it depends on if they are going to tank it or just flow solvent over it)

TIA

_________________
2006 KJ CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:49 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2505
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/gasket-sealants/permatex-copper-spray-a-gasket-hi-temp-sealant/

Goes on like paint. Allow to become tacky between coats. I allow to dry before assembling, so things don't get smeared out of place.

When the engine is first started and warmed up, it flows into any microscopic lower pressure areas as a thermal glue would, and permanently sets up there, making the surface pressure, heat dissipation, and sealing performance more even than surfacing machine tools can make it.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:51 am 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 4962
Location: Green Cove Springs FL
Get a good used head from VM specialist.
Get a new head gasket.
Get arp head studs.

As far as rockers goes, make sure the rollers spin smoothly, that there is no slop in the bearings, and that the lash adjusters are not damaged.
If in doubt, replace all the rockers.

Pulling the head is not something you want to do twice.
So if you want to just replace it, I totally understand. I got my head from them for under $600.
(BTW, your symptoms indicate a head gasket leak or cracked head)

I did research on MLS gasket sealing and settled on mopar spray gasket adhesive. Basically it's red sticky stuff .
Not saying it's any better than the copper coat but it's what I used.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:36 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 6297
Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
I don't know anything about the Mopar gasket adhesive, but the basic plan of the copper spray is the same. You don't want to let it dry completely, but let it set up for between 5 minutes and 10 minutes before assembling and clamping with the head studs. It will take this stuff a LONG time to fully dry, so you don't need to rush it, but don't leave it overnight before clamping with the studs. As far as spraying, yes I do all four surfaces, and a decently solid coating. The excess will squeeze out as you clamp it. The brand I use is the Permatex that you can get at Advance or AutoZone (or likely any parts store)

I do agree that it seems you probably have something more significant than just the normal head gasket leaking. It may not be the worst idea to just replace the head completely at this point and test it later, or sell it to someone who can test it. Cleaning the valve cover can be done with the cams in place, they do not have replaceable bearings, but if they are going to hot-tank it and you have plastic end caps on the back, that would not be a good idea. A regular parts washer should be fine however.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 125 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:28 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:31 pm
Posts: 279
Doing some cleanup and ordering parts, and I noticed something on cyl #2 that I thought I'd ask the experts about.

About 1/2 way up on the cyl wall there is a white spot in the cross-hatching. Maybe 3mm x 2mm or so. The wall itself is smooth there; if you run a fingernail over it there is no catching on anything or any difference at the spot vs the rest of the wall.

This was in the cyl which had the GP come out, and no parts were broken off the GP, so although the color and size of the spot is similar to a GP tip I don't think it came from that.

Any thoughts on what this spot might be, and if it should be a concern?

_________________
2006 KJ CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:14 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 6297
Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
If its smooth... Ignore it. Don't have a clue what it is, but if it is smooth then it isn't hurting anything by being there.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 125 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:34 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:31 pm
Posts: 279
Bit of an update...

After a bit of a wild goose chase deciding on what to do with the head, I think I now have all of the parts I will need to reassemble this engine. Ended up going with a new head from IDparts, as it was not going to run that much more than a used head with the extra cost for new valves. Pricey but hopefully will be worth it.

I am curious about how/if others cleaned up top of the cyls and the block deck prior to reassembly. For the deck I usually have used wd40 and scotchbrite pads, but have seen some concern about the scotchbrites leaving abrasives in the engine. Same question really on the piston tops (which are practically clean anyway) and the carbon ring at the top of the cyl, above the top ring.

Just curious how and if folks here cleaned those things, and if there are better, non-abrasive methods out there.

TIA

_________________
2006 KJ CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:57 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2505
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Carb Cleaner and a hard plastic scraper worked for me. Took a LOT of work, but everything finally came away smooth.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:48 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:31 pm
Posts: 279
Thanks. You use the carb cleaner and plastic scraper on the top of the block or the cyl carbon (or both)?

_________________
2006 KJ CRD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New to me CRD - glow plug woes and more
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:00 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2505
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
I used those for cleaning the piston tops and combustion chambers. Before the plastic scraper I was using the end of a strip of mahogany. it worked pretty well, but not as well as the plastic piece. The idea was to use things softer than the piston material so there were no scratches that would encourage carbon buildup again.
For the block deck I used a razor blade scraper with the carb cleaner.
It will smoke like a Vector Control mosquito fogger for a while when you get it running, but once the oil has warmed and flowed back where it needs to be, it cleans right up.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!
Logo by pixeldecals.com