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 Post subject: Re: Car stall, won't turn, PCM bad?!?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:43 pm 
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LyndseyPaige wrote:
flash7210 wrote:
Quote:
Just spoke to another shop and they think it's the fuel pump

A completely stock, unmodified CRD, will only have one fuel pump. And that is the injection pump bolted to the engine.
If you thought a new ECU was expensive... :shock:

And if it was the injection pump, you would likely have a low fuel pressure code.

Best to start by inspecting the fuel filter assembly for leaks.
Unplug the two wire connectors on it to see if they are wet with fuel. They should be dry.
Then, use the hand primer to pump it up. Open the bleeder to see if air comes out.
If anything less than a solid stream of fuel comes out, close the bleeder and repeat.
You will need a 11mm wrench and a small cup to catch the fuel.

And if you dont know the last time the fuel filter was changed, now would be a good time to change it.
Unfortunately the Jeep is currently sitting at a mechanics shop, and in any case I don't have the know how or the tools do really do anything myself.

The estimated I'm seeing online are around $750, much better than the $1,800+ quote I'm getting to replace the PCM.

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Here's the problem: You aren't getting good information from these shops, because the CRD does NOT have a fuel pump in the tank. It only has the high pressure pump that is part of the engine, and they might charge you $750 just for the pump... However that will not include the 7 hours of labor and $600 in parts (with their markup) JUST for the timing belt, to say nothing of the extra hours attached to change the injection pump.

There would also have been drivability issues (rough running or codes) if the injection pump was failing. They don't fail often, this is a very reliable component. I find it amazing how shops with no clue about these vehicles will always and continually jump to the MOST expensive part they can think of and say that is the definite answer. It almost never is.

Denny's suggestion about the crankshaft sensor is a good one, however that usually appears when the engine is turned off while hot and then refuses to restart. If you were on a cold engine at the time that you were backing out and it quit... That suggests an air-in-fuel issue. The symptoms you have described suggest a solution of very low cost.

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 Post subject: Re: Car stall, won't turn, PCM bad?!?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:23 pm 
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So much chat off on tangents. Back to basics:
1. original symptom - cranked up, put in reverse, backed up, vehicle stalled (a.k.a. engine died), will not restart.
2. will not restart apparently = engine turns over but won't fire (a.k.a. run)

Basic tests not in any particular order:
1. load test battery - unlikely but easy to check at any competent shop; if battery has insufficient juice the ECU won't allow the engine to fire.
2. go to http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/ - download my tech PDF; scroll down bookmarks to "No start hints"; read and maybe try jumping the start contacts to check for bad ignition switch
3. open power distribution center (plastic box in front of battery) - a) check fuses F6 and F16, if bad replace and b) pull relay R39 and replace with relay R40, if vehicle fires up buy new relay.
4. BEFORE TRYING ANYTHING ELSE a) open hood; look at fuel filter; does it have a blue electric plug on the right when viewed from the front; if no that's the 1s gen filter head and it needs replacing; b) regardless of the answer to a) pull both electrical plugs from the filter head; press primer 3 times; stick a "Q" tip of a piece of paper towel in each hole; is either hole wet with diesel; if yes you have a fuel leak and air is getting into the filter head hence no fire; c) regardless of a) or b) bleed the filter head; pump primer until hard; crack bleeder screw; tighten bleeder screw (no godzilla); repeat until only fuel, no air, comes out, does vehicle fire? If yes problem solved. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPwGcWi3gE0 for how to bleed filter head.

Each of these are simple checks that any half way competent shop can do in a total of less than 30 minutes and #1 at least should be a free check.

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 Post subject: Re: Car stall, won't turn, PCM bad?!?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:48 pm 
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papaindigo wrote:
So much chat off on tangents. Back to basics:
1. original symptom - cranked up, put in reverse, backed up, vehicle stalled (a.k.a. engine died), will not restart.
2. will not restart apparently = engine turns over but won't fire (a.k.a. run)

Basic tests not in any particular order:
1. load test battery - unlikely but easy to check at any competent shop; if battery has insufficient juice the ECU won't allow the engine to fire.
2. go to http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/ - download my tech PDF; scroll down bookmarks to "No start hints"; read and maybe try jumping the start contacts to check for bad ignition switch
3. open power distribution center (plastic box in front of battery) - a) check fuses F6 and F16, if bad replace and b) pull relay R39 and replace with relay R40, if vehicle fires up buy new relay.
4. BEFORE TRYING ANYTHING ELSE a) open hood; look at fuel filter; does it have a blue electric plug on the right when viewed from the front; if no that's the 1s gen filter head and it needs replacing; b) regardless of the answer to a) pull both electrical plugs from the filter head; press primer 3 times; stick a "Q" tip of a piece of paper towel in each hole; is either hole wet with diesel; if yes you have a fuel leak and air is getting into the filter head hence no fire; c) regardless of a) or b) bleed the filter head; pump primer until hard; crack bleeder screw; tighten bleeder screw (no godzilla); repeat until only fuel, no air, comes out, does vehicle fire? If yes problem solved. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPwGcWi3gE0 for how to bleed filter head.

Each of these are simple checks that any half way competent shop can do in a total of less than 30 minutes and #1 at least should be a free check.
I'm calling around more tomorrow, perhaps a performance diesel shop, to see if anyone knows anything about these jeeps.

I hate feeling helpless with this doo doo, would think it wouldn't be hard to find a decent place in Houston.

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 Post subject: Re: Car stall, won't turn, PCM bad?!?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:07 am 
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I noticed you joined LOST in 2012. Have you owned this CRD Liberty since that time? If so, and you haven't changed the fuel filter it may well just be so dirty it doesn't have adequate fuel flow. I would also be surprised you haven't had any previous problems other than just oil changes etc. and I would make sure the correct oil is used.

I would start by asking that the things Papaindigo suggested are done before anything else, maybe wherever it is now . Any mechanic should be able to do these things and filter likely needs to be changed anyway. They can look at the you tube video if they don't know how to bleed the fuel filter head.

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 Post subject: Re: Car stall, won't turn, PCM bad?!?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:01 pm 
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LyndseyPaige wrote:
05 Liberty CRD here.

Car has been running fine, but today I started the vehicle, backed out, and it stalled. Couldn't get the engine to turn after that.

Towed it to a shop I go to, and they're telling me the PCM needs to be replaced. Looking at about $1,700.

What do you all think? I've recently been laid off, haven't been able to find something else, and getting this done will drain the last of my savings.

In appreciate any advice!

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UPDATE:

Hello everyone!

Thank you all so much for all your help and suggestions. I haven't been on in awhile, but between some major life events, I'll be honest this extra problem was like that extra stomp on the foot.

I wrote down everyone's suggestions and called around, found a highly rated shop who checked all the potential issues that people listed on this thread, and then some. After scratching everything off they determined it was the ECM.

They ordered the replacement, found someone who could come to the shop and program it, and the Jeep started up just fine! To say it's a weight off my shoulders is putting it lightly. My jeep is no longer reading as a manual either!

I've had this Jeep since 2012 and absolutely adore it.

Thank you all again! You all have been amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: Car stall, won't turn, PCM bad?!?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:06 pm 
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Thanks for posting back, I think this is the first time a diagnosed bad ECU was really a bad ECU. Glad to hear your Jeep is back and running.

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 Post subject: Re: Car stall, won't turn, PCM bad?!?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:44 pm 
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Sir Sam wrote:
Thanks for posting back, I think this is the first time a diagnosed bad ECU was really a bad ECU. Glad to hear your Jeep is back and running.
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