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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:47 am 
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Gypsy62 wrote:
Here's my VH/AC delete-setup pic-link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ru4kaeeogfqoa ... 7.jpg?dl=0
Red circles show serp-clearances, HOWEVER, I ultimately settled on a longer serp-belt in order to "relax" the tensioner. That reduced the pictured tensioner-clearance down to about 1/2". I don't see that as a problem, and feel it's a worthy trade-off in exchange for ample tensioner-travel.
I listed all the PN's in my setup in the "serpentine belt lengths" thread.

Looks Good! :wink:
A couple of questions,
first, I assume the pulley pictured is the Autozone Duralast PN 131082 that you listed previously; did you have to add any additional spacers etc...?
second, what about the engine lifting bracket just above the idler pulley, did you have to remove or modify it when routing the belt from the top of the new ribbed idler pulley over to the alternator?

I like this setup and it is very similar to what I plan to do only I will be keeping the AC comp in the loop and I will be keeping my 11 blade mech fan...I only want to bypass the VH! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Thanks for the info and pictures. I found the Goodyear / Continental 50003 pulley for around 15. It is metal so I thought wth and bought it. I figure if the hole is a little big like on flash's setup I'll just use a conical washer or bolt if I can find a bolt. I know they should have conical that will work. Funny enough that pulley comes with a conical bolt but I'm sure it won't work.

The efan was supposed to be here today I guess it will be tomorrow with the holiday.. :ALONE:

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:22 pm 
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WW- Standby; today I'll establish the serp-length (and azone PN) for a VH-only delete, as well as the length for a VH/AC/MF delete, (which I'm going to run on mine for the next few months).
After obtained, I'll list here for you and also fill-in some of the awaiting specs' on the "alt. serp. lengths" thread.

Regarding the metal hoist-loop, I removed it while tackling the mechfan bearing snafu. I really, REALLY hope I'm not hoisting the engine (again)...

(ABOUT TO COPY THIS TO "FAB IDEAS" THREAD, SO PLEASE RESPOND THERE...)
IDEA: How about a serp-driven small, clutch'd, 110vac generator and/or air compressor in place of the VH? And/or replacing Idler Pulley B, except mounted on that side of engine?

ANYBODY KNOW HOW UNIVERSAL THE LIBBY'S SERP-BELT IS... WHAT ELSE USES THE 6-RIBBED, SAME-WIDTH BELT?

BECAUSE:
In that same spirit of serp-driven DIY accessories, how about a simple TWIN'd metal pulley, so that you'd have a protruding 2nd pulley available to use as/when desired?
A 2-wide pulley could function like a poor-man's PTO, providing a reasonably-robust "energy source" for all kinds of whacky stuff
(maybe even something useful !).
Today at azone I'll inquire regarding the shortest available serp-length. UPDATE: Shortest crd-spec serp-belt= 36" (at least @ azone).

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


Last edited by Gypsy62 on Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:57 pm 
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I believe the 6 rib is very much a standard? There are a huge amount of 6 rib pulleys available when I was researching them!
An ideal setup would be an electrically engaged temperature controlled mechanical fan clutch like the big rigs use... :idea: :-)r
I believe some of the newer Dodge diesels actually have them.
But probably would be cost prohibitive... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:15 pm 
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When I get my efan I think I am going to put that on and test it towing my boat. As it stands thats the only time mine has ever gotten hot. (Pulling a hill doing 60 to 70 with boat and ac). I'm thinking or hoping , maybe it will handle it on high with more rpms or air flow than the clutch fan since its closer and more sealed? But if not a have a few other ideas like a.c. and intercooler spray to bring down the heat tied to the high fan setting. Or maybe even an aux cooler with temp bypass since my thermo is gutted and that might be the last issue. At the veey worst I could go without a.c.... But I'm trying to avoid that. In any case I will probably leave the mech fan stuff there so I can switch back if needed.. But I really like the efan idea and ease of removal / more space / no fan in winter without removal.

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:32 pm 
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Got the aftermarket tbird / taurus fan a few hours ago. It did not fit stock. So trimmed some of the side and depth of shroud off and it seems to fit decent after a rough cut and test of it. I am posting it in a new thread so others can easily see or search it.

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:41 pm 
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VH-only delete serp-length is 101.5" or 102", depending how "loaded" you want your tensioner. Both lengths will clear the tensioner-pulley when threaded PS-IdlerA, with 3.54" oversized IPA & using stock IPB (2.75") between ALT-AC.

I'll post PN's on "serpentine alternative lengths" thread.

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:13 am 
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Gypsy62 wrote:
VH-only delete serp-length is 101.5" or 102", depending how "loaded" you want your tensioner. Both lengths will clear the tensioner-pulley when threaded PS-IdlerA, with 3.54" oversized IPA & using stock IPB (2.75") between ALT-AC.
I'll post PN's on "serpentine alternative lengths" thread.

FYI: the PN (1351082) on the OP is incorrect in a few locations, it should be "131082" :wink:

Gates PN 38019 (Duralast PN 231082)
Thermoplastic V-Ribbed 6 Grooved (90 mm x 17 mm x 26.3 mm) - Flanged

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Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Thanks! Corrected.

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:27 pm 
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So i got my goodyear 50003 pulley in from ebay. 14 bucks it seems like a good deal for a steal pulley. It comes with a bolt and a platic spacer. The spacer might solve the bigger hole on the pulley issue. But if not i had another idea flash i was in true vaule today (best selection of fasterners other than fastenal around here). They had bearing spacers and inserts for a few dollars that would work for a few bucks if they have the right size. I may take the pulleys and look tomrrow and let you know.

See the spacer below.

Image

Image

Its alittle tight but would probably go in when you put a wrench on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:48 pm 
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IF YOU ARE THREADING YOUR SERP THE OPPOSITE OF STOCK OVER ANY IDLER PULLEY, USE THREADLOCKER ON THE PULLEY'S MOUNTING BOLT AND REMEMBER TO REGULARLY CHECK TIGHTNESS!
After a second test using blue threadlocker, I'm now convinced the IPA's mounting-bolt was very slowly loosening from clockwise-rotation vibrating the stock reverse-threaded bolt.

My custom MF half-bracket should be ready tomorrow. It replaces the IPA's stock reverse-threaded sleeve with a normal-threaded sleeve, thereby solving the rotational-force induced loosening of the bolt. It also deletes the MF hub, giving the taurus elec. puller-fan lotsa' clearance. Hopefully, that will resolve the final hitch in my VH/AC/MF-delete setup. When the temps advise restoring the AC inline, I'll have them fab the other half that will replace the mechfan hub with a small & light pulley (similar to your pic), which should replicate the stock setup's firmer-wrap around the HB & AC pulleys.

I installed my taurus fan today and have a couple questions:
- How difficult should it be to activate the OEM fan circuit?
- Does anyone know if the AC activates the high or low fan circuit?
- Does anybody know which blue-wire supplies the "High" fan-speed & which supplies the "Low" when viewing the top of the plug, with the sliding red lock-tab? Presumably the black middle-wire is ground.

I recall folks saying it gets kinda' warm before the elec. fan kicks-on, but even blazing around town (@65f) I can't get my temp-gauge to spike past 'normal'. When it reaches 12 o'clock I look under the hood, but silent-fan. More blazing, and I still can't get the gauge to read hotter.
First, I tried idling in 'Park' at 2500rpm's for 15min. but still couldn't spike it past normal... WITH NO FAN!
Is this normal??? The engine compartment doesn't seem crazy-hot, but it concerns me that the temp-gauge 'peaks' at normal, even without any fan-cooling.
- I've installed new relays @ fuse box
- I've confirmed that both speeds of the taurus fan work
- My AC needs charging. From what I gather, if your AC is working properly then when you switch it on the ECU should activate the electric cooling-fan circuit; 'High' or Low'?
- Are others using lower-temp sensors/probes to activate their fans?
Thanks!

Ryan- regarding your bearing-spacer issue, why wouldn't you simply re-use the stock pulley's mounting hardware? The many bearings I've experimented with all have a 20mm inside-diameter, same as the stock bearing's. Is your new bearing's ID so different?

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:48 pm 
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Gypsy62 wrote:
Does anybody know which blue-wire supplies the "High" fan-speed & which supplies the "Low" when viewing the top of the plug, with the sliding red lock-tab? Presumably the black middle-wire is ground.
The 2006 manual says dark blue w/ dark green stripe = low, and dark green w/ dark blue stripe = high. I assume yours is 2006 because 2005 lists dark green = low, and yellow = high.


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Thanks! I'll take closer look at the colors, cuz they both looked like identical, stripe-less, solid-blue.

I'll charge the AC Tomorrow. With AC switched-on, could somebody please share whether that activates the fan's "Low" or "High" circuit?
I need to insure that the taurus fan's supply-lines are correctly assigned.

Regarding my difficulty trying to intentionally heat my temp gauge past high-noon, I forgot to mention that before I performed major surgery (1.5 years ago-ish) the gauge DID show running hot, uphill in 115f Vegas heat. Unless it has suddenly gone weird, the gauge CAN exceed 12 o'clock.

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


Last edited by Gypsy62 on Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:44 pm 
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Gypsy62 wrote:
IF YOU ARE THREADING YOUR SERP THE OPPOSITE OF STOCK OVER ANY IDLER PULLEY, USE THREADLOCKER ON THE PULLEY'S MOUNTING BOLT AND REMEMBER TO REGULARLY CHECK TIGHTNESS!
After a second test using blue threadlocker, I'm now convinced the IPA's mounting-bolt was very slowly loosening from clockwise-rotation vibrating the stock reverse-threaded bolt.

My custom MF half-bracket should be ready tomorrow. It replaces the IPA's stock reverse-threaded sleeve with a normal-threaded sleeve, thereby solving the rotational-force induced loosening of the bolt. It also deletes the MF hub, giving the taurus elec. puller-fan lotsa' clearance. Hopefully, that will resolve the final hitch in my VH/AC/MF-delete setup. When the temps advise restoring the AC inline, I'll have them fab the other half that will replace the mechfan hub with a small & light pulley (similar to your pic), which should replicate the stock setup's firmer-wrap around the HB & AC pulleys.

I installed my taurus fan today and have a couple questions:
- How difficult should it be to activate the OEM fan circuit?
- Does anyone know if the AC activates the high or low fan circuit?
- Does anybody know which blue-wire supplies the "High" fan-speed & which supplies the "Low" when viewing the top of the plug, with the sliding red lock-tab? Presumably the black middle-wire is ground.

I recall folks saying it gets kinda' warm before the elec. fan kicks-on, but even blazing around town (@65f) I can't get my temp-gauge to spike past 'normal'. When it reaches 12 o'clock I look under the hood, but silent-fan. More blazing, and I still can't get the gauge to read hotter.
First, I tried idling in 'Park' at 2500rpm's for 15min. but still couldn't spike it past normal... WITH NO FAN!
Is this normal??? The engine compartment doesn't seem crazy-hot, but it concerns me that the temp-gauge 'peaks' at normal, even without any fan-cooling.
- I've installed new relays @ fuse box
- I've confirmed that both speeds of the taurus fan work
- My AC needs charging. From what I gather, if your AC is working properly then when you switch it on the ECU should activate the electric cooling-fan circuit; 'High' or Low'?
- Are others using lower-temp sensors/probes to activate their fans?
Thanks!

Ryan- regarding your bearing-spacer issue, why wouldn't you simply re-use the stock pulley's mounting hardware? The many bearings I've experimented with all have a 20mm inside-diameter, same as the stock bearing's. Is your new bearing's ID so different?



My front fan I wired both of the hots together since mine was single speed fan replacement in the front.

I got my fan to come on for a test around 70 if you turn the a.c. on full and go drive like you stole it until it gets up to temp then park somewhere with the a.c. still on full. Fan should come on or mine did in the fall.

I was talking about an issue flash mentioned .. Not sure about the other pulleys I only have this one... But the hole for it is a bit larger than the stock one and I think that is what flash wanted to avoid the little bit of play.. I could be mistaken though.

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:10 am 
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That AC info is useful. Thanks.

Re pulley-inserts, keep in mind that the mounting-bolt should securely grip the inner-race of the bearing when tightened. To some extent, that should reduce concern regarding potentially harmful up-down 'play' of the bolt.
That said, while mixing & matching bearings, pulleys, inserts & bolts I did find a combo where the inserts that were included with one pulley were designed for its uniquely 'wide' inner-race. Not it's inside-diameter, but it's 'thickness'. Consequently, in order for the pulley's mounting-bolt to be able to 'grip' the bearing's inner-race, the two-piece insert would need to have their inner-flanges ground until they don't contact when fitted into each side of the bearing.
Apologies if that is confusing.

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:28 am 
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No I think I follow. However I was confused or something ealier since I completely forgot the stock pulley has a spacer in it. Flash the pulley I have seems to be pretty snug when I removed the spacer from the old one and transfered it over.

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:04 am 
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I have used that pulley in a setup: note that the stock outer washer/bearing-insert will only properly seat against the inner-race with the pulley facing 'hollow' side out.

Technically-speaking, the 3 stock idler pulleys (tensioner, idler A & idler B), all have TWO bearing-inserts. The big honkin' outer "washer" is mildly-flanged to fit solidly against the bearings inner-race. Technically, it constitutes an "outer bearing-insert".
I plan to use the stock inserts for the pulley on my custom IPA bracket. However, the new IPA mounting-bolt will have 'normal' threads so I'll have to drill-out the inner-spacer's reverse-threading. I don't think it has 'threads' exactly; more like small 'tabs'. Shouldn't be a biggie.

It is FUN driving without a serp! Ridiculous improvement off-the-line. And I still haven't punched-it with the diffs-locked. YouTube, stand-by...
And no power-steering = radically different road-feel; kinda' like a sand-rail.

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:39 pm 
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I've been messing with serp/pulley combos the past few weeks. Yesterday, I paid the price for my serp-less recreational day-driving. Jeep stalled.
Installed serp on-hand*, waved my cables, got a jump, back rolling, no biggie. Within 1/2-hour of driving alternator charged battery to 'good'.

However, given that I have fairly precise knowledge of my driving-time & conditions, the snafu provided an accidental revelation that may be useful to somebody...

Available CRD run-time in the event that you lose charging, daytime-driving:
- 1.5 Hours before "Charge Warning" light illuminates (looks like lightning-bolt, located on left-center of cluster). Aggressive-driving.
- After "Charge Warning" lites, .5 Hour before stall.
- Total available driving-time without serpentine/alternator= +/- 2 hours.

Obviously, your available battery-energy depends on:
A. Day vs night driving, & accessory load
B. The quality and state of your battery(s)

I have a healthy 5yr.old Optima 800cca 'yellow-top' battery..

* I accidentally discovered that the OEM belt will still provide temporarily-adequate tension with Idler Pulley B removed (w/stock IPA); however, it jumped & shredded next day.

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


Last edited by Gypsy62 on Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Gypsy62 wrote:
I've been messing with serp/pulley combos the past few weeks. Yesterday, I paid the price for my serp-less recreational day-driving. Jeep stalled.
Installed serp on-hand*, waved my cables, got a jump, back rolling, no biggie. Within 1/2-hour of driving alternator charged battery to 'good'.
However, given that I have fairly precise knowledge of my driving-time & conditions, the snafu provided an accidental revelation that may be useful to somebody...
Available CRD run-time in the event that you lose charging, daytime-driving:
- 1.5 Hours before "Charge Warning" light illuminates (looks like lightning-bolt, located on left-center of cluster). Aggressive-driving.
- After "Charge Warning" lites, .5 Hour before stall.
- Total available driving-time without serpentine/alternator= +/- 2 hours.
Obviously, your available battery-energy depends on:
A. Day vs night driving, & accessory load
B. The quality and state of your battery(s)
I have a healthy 5yr.old Optima 800cca 'yellow-top' battery..
* I discovered that the OEM belt still provides adequate tension with Idler Pulley B removed (w/stock IPA).

When my alternator quit charging a few years back while I was out of town on a short trip; after cutting everything "OFF" that I could, I only made it about 15 miles before it started idling and sounding funny!
Lucky I made it home barely, battery volts was down to right at 9 volts on a two year old AGM 34.
Then replaced Alternator with an Autozone unit, and purchased the Weeks battery tray and a North Star AGM 65 for further piece of mind! :D

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Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:31 pm
Posts: 450
Location: North America
Yeah, def starts to "sound funny", idle crappy. However, I found that it remained rocket-smooth under heavy-throttle.
Mine stalled while parked at idle for almost 1/2 hour at a "Yonke"* (while the jeffe/boss & I tracked-down an OEM ford-connector to clean-up & complete my taurus-fan install). My buddy was waiting in the jeep and said it was uneventful, no dramatic shaking or "death-howls", just suddenly stalled. I'm not certain how it would have finally pooped-out if underway in city-highway driving.
I have a Kennedy-pump installed just fore of the tank. I just-now realized THAT is the accessory that drew-down the battery!
Any thoughts on how long she'd putter day-driving without an electric pump, given that the tbelt energizes the injection-pump?

(This lost-charge run-time discussion might merit a separate new-thread...? )
UPDATE- JUST STARTED A TOPICAL-THREAD, "CRD RUN-TIME, LOST CHARGING
*=MX junkyard, aka "Automotive Salvage Boutique" to quiche aficionados...

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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