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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:29 pm 
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Hmm, I guess despite my lift, my jeep has a lot more power than the ones I fix up, but I do have gde tune also.

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Mech fan VH & AC delete


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:50 pm 
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The VH hose bypass is pretty easy to figure out.
Just route a hose from the outlet on the thermostat housing to the heater inlet pipe.
It will be more obvious when you pull the hoses off the VH.

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Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 5 volt bosch glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, JBA upper arms, 235-85-16 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:10 pm 
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I'll trust you that it will make sense upon closer inspection.
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:29 pm 
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flash7210 wrote:
The VH hose bypass is pretty easy to figure out.
Just route a hose from the outlet on the thermostat housing to the heater inlet pipe.
It will be more obvious when you pull the hoses off the VH.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure you'll need another brass piece identical to the egr delete, and it sits right next to the egr delete splice. Or in other words I have two splices next to each other

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat, Ironrock trilink, Integrated air OX rear,truetrac front, Suncoast,OME 2.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&245/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new head,rockers, cams,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, welded EGR port & trans drain, muffler delete,tensioner relocated
Mech fan VH & AC delete


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Very useful info, MM.
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:10 am 
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Gypsy62 wrote:
Very useful info, MM.
Thanks!


Sure thing :JEEPIN:

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat, Ironrock trilink, Integrated air OX rear,truetrac front, Suncoast,OME 2.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&245/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new head,rockers, cams,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, welded EGR port & trans drain, muffler delete,tensioner relocated
Mech fan VH & AC delete


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:34 am 
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In this picture you can see the viscous heater viewed from the side (ignore the arrows).

Image

You see two hoses connected to the VH. A top one and a bottom one.
Completely remove the bottom hose from the VH and thermostat housing.
Disconnect the top hose from the VH and connect it to the thermostat housing.
Done.

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Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 5 volt bosch glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, JBA upper arms, 235-85-16 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:26 am 
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I probably spliced mine so I didn't have to buy any hose, but I was living a long ways from a parts store.... I'll have to remove that potential leak, thanks Flash! :D

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat, Ironrock trilink, Integrated air OX rear,truetrac front, Suncoast,OME 2.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&245/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new head,rockers, cams,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, welded EGR port & trans drain, muffler delete,tensioner relocated
Mech fan VH & AC delete


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Thanks, Flash. Making routing-mod after caffeine kicks-in (in the rain. 65f, not complaining!).

Yesterday I allowed visually-surveying all the hose-spaghetti to confuse the obvious. In order to bypass the VH (viscous heater), you just splice-together the input and output hoses that connect to it. Keep it simple (to the mind of this lebowski junior-achiever, your reference to the "heater" could have meant either the viscous "heater" in/out or the "heater" core supply/return tubes...).

OR, even better than "splicing", remove one of the hoses entirely.
The end result is the same, just instead of using a coupler to connect the two hoses, just completely remove one of them.
I have not yet intimately surveyed the accessibility of the hose-routings; it may be easiest to just pop-off the in/out hoses from the VH and install a coupler vs. wrestle with their other ends to remove one entirely. I'll report-back after completion.
THANKS!


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Yeah, where it goes on to the octopus might be tough to access, but it sure is all much easier without the VH and AC stuff. But, if you sell your jeep the no AC may kill potential sales

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat, Ironrock trilink, Integrated air OX rear,truetrac front, Suncoast,OME 2.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&245/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new head,rockers, cams,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, welded EGR port & trans drain, muffler delete,tensioner relocated
Mech fan VH & AC delete


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:43 pm 
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UPDATE: this seemed like the logical VH-delete, "adiós shorty-hose, re-route long-hose disconnected from VH to thermo" (confirmation appreciated):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ld0txsr8qgr6 ... 5.jpg?dl=0

Question: leave VH's sensor-plug connected, or not?

MM- I'm frequently in Vegas during summer months = AC Stays!
Also, Europe relocation or no, I may well keep the beast.
Regardless, I'm going to configure a winter-summer setup.
Winter = No VH/AC/Mech. fan.
Summer = No VH. I'll probably experiment w/elec. fan-only (no mech. fan drag) to determine if & when the mech. fan is necessary.
I'm not crazy about installing the taurus puller elec. fan, but for now it allows me to axe the mechfan. In a few months I'll prioritize designing/fabbing a custom pusher elec. fan setup.

If you live with sub-freezing winters, keeping the VH seems advisable.
Besides, how useful are a few extra ponies on snow and ice?
"Look how fast I can spin my meats!"
Also, when it's -10f, speeding a warm cabin is probably worth a few mpg's.

I'm going to start a new thread surveying people's interest and advice on manufacturing CRD/Libby-specific components/accessories here in Ensenada. Later this year I'm starting a pet-products manufacturing company here, but I'm always game to toss another iron on the fire.
CRD's are probably an ill-advised niche-market to invest production energies, but may still be a good proving-ground for establishing suppliers and services for future products serving the Camry, Accord, F150 (etc) mass-markets.


Last edited by Gypsy62 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Cool, it would be great if you could produce one of those fine rear triangle brackets that WWdiesel came up with so we could use an upgraded rear uca

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat, Ironrock trilink, Integrated air OX rear,truetrac front, Suncoast,OME 2.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&245/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new head,rockers, cams,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, welded EGR port & trans drain, muffler delete,tensioner relocated
Mech fan VH & AC delete


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Hmmm... any chance ya' could supply the relevant thread-links?
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:04 pm 
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Gypsy62 wrote:
Hmmm... any chance ya' could supply the relevant thread-links?
Thanks!

See this:> viewtopic.php?f=98&t=87307

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
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Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/NAPA HDclutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:28 am 
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Mountainman wrote:
Cool, it would be great if you could produce one of those fine rear triangle brackets that WWdiesel came up with so we could use an upgraded rear uca


Second that. When i replace the boomerang that is the way i will go, and somehow make or have a bracket made.

Also thinking about the taurus fan / upgraded tbird fan. But IDK, since there is only mention of it on here nothing i could find of anyone doing it and it working long term. I saw one post were someone put a tbird / Volvo one on and it failed right after but that about all. If you figure out a belt routing and part number that just deletes the VH, and not the mech fan please share.

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:37 pm 
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The Taurus/T-bird/Mark VIII electric fans are very popular for old muscle cars because they pull a lot of air. The fan shroud will have to be cut and modified to fit whatever radiator you choose to attach it to. Whenever possible, go for the 2 speed fan motor.
Volvo electric fans are popular too and most of them use the same fan motor as the Taurus. There is a version of the Volvo S40 fan where the fan assembly can be removed from the shroud. To me, this offers the most flexibility for mounting the fan but still requires you to fab up some brackets to hold it in place. Again, go for the 2 speed motor.

Another option would be to go with a factory electric fan for the 3.7L Liberty. This would be the easiest to fit but still requires a few modifications. Again, go for the 2 speed motor, but I dont know how well it pulls air.

If you plan to tow a heavy load through the rockies in the middle of July, then I think the fixed-flexfan-mod is the best way to go. But that would require you to keep the engine fan bracket/pulley in place. And it not the most ideal when dealing with freezing winter temperatures.

IMO, if you are going to use only an electric fan, use only one puller fan. Find a large electric fan that pulls 4000 cfm or better. And whenever possible, go for a two speed fan. Fancy two fan pusher puller setups are not very effective.

Lastly, I've kinda worked up a plan that will allow for deleting the VH while keeping the engine fan bracket and pulley. I just gotta find the right idler pulley that will fit.

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 5 volt bosch glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, JBA upper arms, 235-85-16 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:50 pm 
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flash7210 wrote:
I have deleted both the engine driven fan and the viscous heater.

To remove the engine driven fan, remove the fan and clutch assembly and remove the fan shroud. Set them aside and forget about them.

To delete the viscous heater...
1. remove the belt
2. remove the belt idler pulley that bolted to the fan bracket and save it for later
3. remove the fan bracket and use a puller to pull the fan pulley off of it
4. remove the viscous heater and re route the heater hoses from the thermostat housing to the heater pipe
5. purchase a Gates 36167 pulley and a AC Delco 6k815 belt
6. re install fan bracket (without fan pulley)
7. using the bolt and spacer from the old idler pulley, bolt the new Gates pulley to the fan bracket
8. install the new AC Delco belt
Belt routing is: crank pulley - tensioner - power steering - new gates idler pulley - alternator - small idler - AC

You should already have a pusher fan in your grille. I wired in a toggle switch to allow me to turn it on manually when needed or just allow the ECM to turn it on.

With some modification, you can also use a electric puller fan for a 2004 liberty 3.7L. Get the two speed version if you do.



flash7210 wrote:
Lastly, I've kinda worked up a plan that will allow for deleting the VH while keeping the engine fan bracket and pulley. I just gotta find the right idler pulley that will fit.


When you get it all finally sorted the way you like, could you post up some pics?


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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Heres an illustration of my mounted taurus puller-fan, w/mauled shroud. Due to my misunderstanding of the OEM supply-wiring plug-location (mine, tucked beneath the airbox), I mounted it backwards; YOUR custom elec.fan installation should have its plug oriented VEHICLE-right, the opposite of "facing-engine" right.
This is (allegedly) off a '92 taurus; note that its shroud doesn't cover 7-rows at both the top/bottom of the radiator (approx. 1/4 of total radiator surface). I'm very curious if others had effective cooling using similarly under-sized fan-shrouds:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ms5bji477zhou ... 0.jpg?dl=0

I'm nowhere approaching 'happy' with this 'test-setup'; $10 yard-fan, temporary. Just chomping to off-line the MechFan load.

Flash: for my serp belt-length experiments, I took a ratchet-strap (= no stretching unless ratcheted) and snugly-threaded it around my custom routing, using gorilla-tape to attach the strap to itself to "fix" it's length. The correct belt-length should be fairly close to your 'strap belt'.

I recommend you install a 'ballpark'-sized pulley, thread a strap, visually estimate how much smaller or larger the desired pulley should be, take the sample-pulley into a "friendly" parts-store and tell them you'd like the three diameters closest to your estimated diameter (same with experimental serp belt-lengths). Azone carries both metal and plastic pulleys; I don't see a problem using either. I installed a large plastic pulley as IPA (Idler Pulley A) located between PS/ALT, deleted VH/AC. Remember to specify smooth or 6-ribbed depending which side of the serp faces the pulley in your setup.
REMEMBER TO DO A THOROUGH IN-STORE VISUAL INSPECTION OF SERPS & PULLEYS TO CONFIRM PARTS!
Virtually all of the substitute pulleys had 'guide lips' on both edges of the pulley. This seems like an improvement from stock, but after some reflection it occurs to me that the OEM no-guide flat pulleys may actually serve as "compensators" for slight belt-alignment variations/imperfections between accessories. I'll monitor the ongoing condition of my serp-edges and report if there's any fraying.


Last edited by Gypsy62 on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:40 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Squeeto wrote:
flash7210 wrote:
I have deleted both the engine driven fan and the viscous heater.

To remove the engine driven fan, remove the fan and clutch assembly and remove the fan shroud. Set them aside and forget about them.

To delete the viscous heater...
1. remove the belt
2. remove the belt idler pulley that bolted to the fan bracket and save it for later
3. remove the fan bracket and use a puller to pull the fan pulley off of it
4. remove the viscous heater and re route the heater hoses from the thermostat housing to the heater pipe
5. purchase a Gates 36167 pulley and a AC Delco 6k815 belt
6. re install fan bracket (without fan pulley)
7. using the bolt and spacer from the old idler pulley, bolt the new Gates pulley to the fan bracket
8. install the new AC Delco belt
Belt routing is: crank pulley - tensioner - power steering - new gates idler pulley - alternator - small idler - AC

You should already have a pusher fan in your grille. I wired in a toggle switch to allow me to turn it on manually when needed or just allow the ECM to turn it on.

With some modification, you can also use a electric puller fan for a 2004 liberty 3.7L. Get the two speed version if you do.



flash7210 wrote:
Lastly, I've kinda worked up a plan that will allow for deleting the VH while keeping the engine fan bracket and pulley. I just gotta find the right idler pulley that will fit.


When you get it all finally sorted the way you like, could you post up some pics?


I second the pictures and or info post.

I looked into the efan swap. I like the idea of it for control and ease of removal..But even with the fans being a steal, you still have to buy the wiring, relays, and temp controls so really isnt much to gain. I wish i would of seen the gm fan / gm clutch option before i would of went that route. I have an upgraded hayden clutch now but it is for the Chrysler. The plastic fan alone for that is like 80 bucks. You can almost get the fan and clutch for the gm one for that amount. Its all up in the air at the moment since i have the fan off for the winter.

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt replacement and or modification: opinion
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:23 pm 
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flash7210 wrote:
Lastly, I've kinda worked up a plan that will allow for deleting the VH while keeping the engine fan bracket and pulley. I just gotta find the right idler pulley that will fit.

These are the PN's for consideration that might be of help (pulleys, bushing) I have on file for removing just the VH.
Just haven't gotten around to performing the actual removal yet; it is on my bucket list to do so! Maybe this spring?
Relay for the VH has been pulled for over 3 years now and it really needs to go!

Plans are to KEEP the mechanical GM 11 blade cooling fan and mount a new idler pulley either in place of the VH or a larger grooved one in place of the current top OEM idler pulley to give enough clearance to run a shorter belt and clear the tensioner pulley.
Just haven't worked out all of the finer details quite yet! :roll:

Gates - Idler Pulley Bushing Part # M17X12B

Image

_________________
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/NAPA HDclutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


Last edited by WWDiesel on Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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