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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:19 am 
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Bad grounding was the cause of this one jeep i just got done working on. I throughly checked every component, continuity, shorts to ground, shorts to power, different modules, different relays, all got me nowhere. I then thought of ambient temp sensor and got to digging around the fuse block area, bumped the grounding spot by the headlight (didnt know it was there) and BOOM perfect working glow system. The jeep was a real bear to start before, now she turns the key on, counts to 12 (testing showed the glow plugs were lit for 14 seconds around 25°F) and starts first crank every time.

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05 Liberty Limited CRD, converted to KPA 2863 ball bearing and billet turbo, 50hp injectorsl, complete egr delete, cooling fan delete, weeks intake kit, cummins in tank lift pump, ARP studs, 3" turbo back exhaust, samcos, etecno plugs, GDE trans tune, custom GDE engine tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:50 pm 
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These are two ground locations under the hood that can be checked for good connections as being discussed!
1. is behind the left headlight assembly on top of the fender under the Power Distribution Fuse Panel area.
2. is on the firewall under the cowl rubber seal just to the right of the master cylinder location (facing rear of vehicle).
pictures:

1.
Image

2.
Image

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Last edited by WWDiesel on Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:13 pm 
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Thanks for the pictures and tips. I would of missed the one by the headlight for sure. I think I'll clean the block one too. Here are mine. My jeep loves rust.. :cry:

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:17 pm
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Location: Bloomville, Oh
You can unhook the glowplug harness connector, and use the end coming from the module to read if/how much voltage your getting. A regular voltmeter probe wont fit in the pins, so i stuck a needle into the pin and put the probe on that.
If your unsure where where the connector is, just follow the wires from the glow plugs. Usually its around the alternator.

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05 Liberty Limited CRD, converted to KPA 2863 ball bearing and billet turbo, 50hp injectorsl, complete egr delete, cooling fan delete, weeks intake kit, cummins in tank lift pump, ARP studs, 3" turbo back exhaust, samcos, etecno plugs, GDE trans tune, custom GDE engine tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Another update (I know again.. But I figure it may help someone.). So I got the new starter remy brand from rock auto for 120 no core. Dhl express was 20 bucks and it arrived to ky from Cali in less than 24 hours! Can't beat that at around 100 bucks cheaper than reman local. Starter sounds way different than mine. I can post a video if anyone wants of my redneck comparison. Pulled the jeep outside and going to let it cold soak ... So in the morning I'll either feel like the master of the universe or a kicked dog...

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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:37 pm 
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Let us know how it goes! Its always nice to know if someone fixed their problem.

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05 Liberty Limited CRD, converted to KPA 2863 ball bearing and billet turbo, 50hp injectorsl, complete egr delete, cooling fan delete, weeks intake kit, cummins in tank lift pump, ARP studs, 3" turbo back exhaust, samcos, etecno plugs, GDE trans tune, custom GDE engine tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:06 am 
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Hope that solves it for you. I'll need to start up mine tomorrow I'm afraid. Got a weird vibration in my DD Corolla and need to travel on the interstate a bit. With this cold I've not been able to check what's up with my block heater. When I went to jack up the Corolla to check it out my jack was frozen. Guess there must be moisture in the oil.

KJ Been sitting for several days so it will be ambient temp...

Let us know how you fair with the new starter.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:21 am 
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All Hail the Conquering Hero!!!

Starter fixed it. Intake heater for a minute, cycled the glow plugs a few times (key on, wait until voltage comes back up, repeat 2 or 3)... Turned key over to start and the magic happened, the jeep started only after a 1 or two seconds. Temp was around 7 overnight here, wind chill was -4.

Recap
Old Starter sounded fine. Started the jeeep fine above 30. Took it out and it tested fine. Failed once after alot of test passes..
30 to 20 grumpy but started.
Under 20 no start without block heater, even then if it was around 0 it didnt want to start after hours on the cord unless i jumped it or messed with it alot (Heaters, heat guns).
Glow plugs 5v on 7v system all good and newish. New 950cca battery.
Ordered new starter and tested it beside the new one. New one sounds way different. (New one like a saw or drill, old on more like a vacuum.) Still sounds alot different starting the jeep. Again, the old starter was considered good by the auto parts tests many times.

Replaced the starter and all is right with the world now.

Rock auto or amazon prime had the remy starter 99623 for around 125 to 140 if anyone is interested, no core.

I have video of the starter comparison and the cold start if anyone wants.

Thanks to everyone for all the help. Big THANKS to r1perk who pointed me in the starter direction!

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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:33 pm 
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ryanchris wrote:
Ordered new starter and tested it beside the new one. New one sounds way different. (New one like a saw or drill, old on more like a vacuum.) Still sounds alot different starting the jeep. Again, the old starter was considered good by the auto parts tests many times.

Replaced the starter and all is right with the world now.
ryanchris wrote:
I have video of the starter comparison and the cold start if anyone wants.
I guess post it if you've got it. I'm curious which one sounds different from "normal" - the old one because it's dying, or the new one because maybe it has a different design(?)


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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:18 pm 
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joe_ wrote:
I guess post it if you've got it. I'm curious which one sounds different from "normal" - the old one because it's dying, or the new one because maybe it has a different design(?)


Here is the comparison
https://streamable.com/98u9h

Here is the cold start
https://streamable.com/93h0y

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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Just a guess, but it sounds to me like the new one has a higher speed motor and a gear reduction between the motor and the drive. Very similar to a plug-in hand drill.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:56 pm 
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So the old one wasnt gear reduction? I just assumed it was since most of the replacements listed that (at least i think they did).

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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Why would you wait for the glow plugs to go off before starting? I can see the cycles to warm the air in the cylinders, but part of their function is to ignite the fuel. 0° fuel hitting a glowplug that is glowing but off, will cool them off pretty quickly.

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05 Liberty Limited CRD, converted to KPA 2863 ball bearing and billet turbo, 50hp injectorsl, complete egr delete, cooling fan delete, weeks intake kit, cummins in tank lift pump, ARP studs, 3" turbo back exhaust, samcos, etecno plugs, GDE trans tune, custom GDE engine tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:30 pm 
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Not sure really just thought you waited. I didn't think diesel gp's were like spark plugs and that it was needed for them to be red hot or on to light the fuel.. I thought they were only used to heat the cylinder area if cold so the diesel is more likely to combust under the colder conditions. Granted this the first diesel I have owned so it is probably likely I am lacking in a lot with them, plenty of turbo'd other toys just no diesels.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:50 pm 
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In the comparison video, I notice the old one stops spinning a lot quicker than the new one when you remove power (and I see what you mean about it sounding like a vacuum cleaner). Maybe disassembling it and cleaning/re-greasing would help, but replacing it with a new one obviously did the trick. The new starter seems to crank it over pretty quickly considering the engine was sitting at 10-15°F.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:54 pm 
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Ah gotcha, well, now ya know lol. Try counting to 12 after you turn the key on, after 12 give her a crank, should take right off! That new starter sounds pretty healthy.

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05 Liberty Limited CRD, converted to KPA 2863 ball bearing and billet turbo, 50hp injectorsl, complete egr delete, cooling fan delete, weeks intake kit, cummins in tank lift pump, ARP studs, 3" turbo back exhaust, samcos, etecno plugs, GDE trans tune, custom GDE engine tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Yeah I know I was shocked it started so fast... First try and all. I am going to take the old one and get it rebuilt since I didn't have to give it up as a core for backup. I searched around and I guess it's a common thing 7.3 owners mention starter gremlins. Not starting when cold starter testing good , putting a new one on fixs the start issue. I guess to really test them they would need something that could put a load on the gears / teeth. The part store I went to didn't have that just a amp load testing rig.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:04 pm 
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diesel_guy86 wrote:
Ah gotcha, well, now ya know lol. Try counting to 12 after you turn the key on, after 12 give her a crank, should take right off! That new starter sounds pretty healthy.


And knowing is half the battle! Now all I need are some red and blue lasers ha.

But I will do that next time.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp in the Teens....No start
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:01 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Well regardless of what the old one is, the new one obviously spins at a higher RPM and fixed the issue.

Glad it's back in action for ya.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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