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Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
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Author:  CGman [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
Well, I'm now the owner of another Jeep CRD, but this one was bought DOA as a Spring/Summer project car. :dizzy:

P.O. says car was traveling down the highway and started losing power and eventually stopped and wouldn't start again. Took it to a repair shop and they told him the motor wasn't turning over and needed a new motor.

Guy spent LOTS of money in maintenance and upgrades but it looks like after 130K miles there's no evidence of timing belt change :oops: or fuel lift pump, but there is an inline thermostat :shock: and a receipt for a GDE hot tune. :BANANA:

This one won't be solved in the next week or two so you've got time to think about your cause of death explanation. :dead:

Now the only thing is to figure out how much time/money to put into this thing if I'm going to flip it.... :5SHOTS:
Author:  ebbnflow [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
Does the motor turn over?
Author:  WWDiesel [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
Several possibilities, really need a little more information to be helpful.... :roll:
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
The EXTREMELY limited information you've given, I'm wondering if the inline thermostat somehow resulted in localized overheating in the cylinder head. Not saying that's what it is, but I'd put it down as a possible contributor.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
Best off the wall worst case scenario guess without more information; A dropped exhaust valve! :grim:
Author:  APC9199 [ Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
CGman wrote:
Well, I'm now the owner of another Jeep CRD, but this one was bought DOA as a Spring/Summer project car. :dizzy:

P.O. says car was traveling down the highway and started losing power and eventually stopped and wouldn't start again. Took it to a repair shop and they told him the motor wasn't turning over and needed a new motor.

Now the only thing is to figure out how much time/money to put into this thing if I'm going to flip it.... :5SHOTS:


Based on that description, my guess is cracked head that quickly started releasing coolant into a (or multiple) cylinder causing a loss of power and eventual hydrolock of the motor. Doesn't say if anyone has removed a glow plug or injector to check for coolant yet...so that's my guess!
Author:  flash7210 [ Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
spontaneous crankshaft disintegration :dizzy:
Author:  Mountainman [ Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
WWDiesel wrote:
Best off the wall worst case scenario guess without more information; A dropped exhaust valve! :grim:


I'm with WW. We've seen this episode before. I'm guessing that the reason we see dropped valves on the highway is that they have time to heat up, and there is a relatively high amount of force applied to the valve from highway speed rpm's. But I'm no expert on broken valves
Author:  CGman [ Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
A couple more things:

PO said there were no unusual noises during the power loss, and he even thought it might just be an electrical problem

Engine could not be turned over by hand at the repair shop after the incident, and they told the PO they scoped the cylinders but didn't see anything unusual, but they may have only been looking through glowplug holes.

Question: Would a dropped valve 'go quietly into that good night' or would it make a big racket?
Author:  flash7210 [ Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
A dropped valve would not be quiet and would quickly bring the engine to a halt.
Author:  APC9199 [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
If the motor really wont turn over, then the only thing I can think of is a seized bearing on the crank. Without evidence of an obvious failure in one of the cylinders and no noise or "bang" then what else can it be?

Can the transmission and torque converter fail in a locked state, preventing the motor from turning and also simultaneously bog the motor down until it stalls? Quite a long shot there...
Author:  CGman [ Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 Update Feb 26
Weather finally warmed up and I got a couple of hours to tear into things. I'll let the pictures speak for me.

Image

Image

Image
Author:  dskater411 [ Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 Update Feb 26
CGman wrote:
Weather finally warmed up and I got a couple of hours to tear into things. I'll let the pictures speak for me.

Image

Image

Image


hmm the strong silent type. im not so sure they are saying much, looks like a high mileage oily turbo and some hoses removed.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
Looks to me there is a LOT of oil going through the CCV puck to the turbo inlet. I can't believe it's not been wiped clean though, considering how much of the oil is seeping out the turbo CAC hose connection (looks to be improperly clamped) and allowing the oil to creep down around the turbo compressor housing and yuck things up.

I'm betting a provent, a new turbo inlet hose, and pressure test of the CAC hoses would clean things up
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
CGman wrote:
Weather finally warmed up and I got a couple of hours to tear into things. I'll let the pictures speak for me.

Image



WTF did you do to your timing belt cover!?!
Like, seriously, why???

When I try to zoom in on the timing belt, I don’t see any belt on those cam sprockets.
Please tell me I’m wrong :shock:

I see you have your radiator and intercooler already removed.
How much oil was trapped in the intercooler?

What’s the engine oil level look like?
Any evidence of coolant mixing with the engine oil?
Author:  CGman [ Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
flash7210 wrote:
CGman wrote:
Weather finally warmed up and I got a couple of hours to tear into things. I'll let the pictures speak for me.



WTF did you do to your timing belt cover!?!
Like, seriously, why???

When I try to zoom in on the timing belt, I don’t see any belt on those cam sprockets.
Please tell me I’m wrong :shock:

I see you have your radiator and intercooler already removed.
How much oil was trapped in the intercooler?

What’s the engine oil level look like?
Any evidence of coolant mixing with the engine oil?


The whole engine bay is pretty dirty, and not just the turbo area, but also the rack and pinion area and even the top of the engine.

My son ( the shop ape who apparently is training for a job at LKQ) :frankie: is the one who 'examined' the timing belt. It's there, just extremely dusty/dirty, and there's no evidence that it's ever been changed. :banghead:

The son/ape removed the radiator/intercooler and it's trapped in the back of the jeep until I fix the dead battery. (Design flaw!!)

As you can see, the degas/coolant tank is dirty looking also, I can't rule out oil in the coolant, and I don't know whether fluids were drained and refilled with clean ones before I got the Jeep.

ALSO, the turbo appears to be seized, I couldn't get it to turn at all with my finger. :furious:
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
Quote:
ALSO, the turbo appears to be seized...


That answers a lot.
The turbo likely seized do to lack of oil.
I suspect the crank/rod bearings did the same.
Author:  CGman [ Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
flash7210 wrote:
Quote:
ALSO, the turbo appears to be seized...


That answers a lot.
The turbo likely seized do to lack of oil.
I suspect the crank/rod bearings did the same.


If that ends up being the case do you bother rebuilding this engine or roll the dice on an LKQ engine with a decent story. :dizzy:

I'm not sure there are many people that want to spend the money to buy a CRD with the engine replaced, I'd imagine it would be $8-9K break-even.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
Lets see, Turbo seized, and engine cannot be turned over by hand with a wrench; this is not looking good. :grim:
Is there any oil still in the engine? Does the dipstick show anything? I don't believe you stated?
Have you tried draining the oil out of the engine and if so how much came out?

If the engine truly ran out of oil, and seized up, a good used engine would be much cheaper than having to rebuild and replace all the bad and stressed parts in your current engine.
And, when an engine runs out of oil to the point of locking up, there is a tremendous amount of heat generated since there is nothing there to lubricate and remove heat from all the moving friction parts. So even after rebuilding, parts that were heat stressed may come back and fail at a later date or time.

I have taken gas engines apart in the past that ran out of oil for various reasons, and it is not pretty! Some extreme cases had to be taken apart with a cutting torch. :roll:
It can get really ugly.... :shock:
Author:  rancherman [ Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
CGman wrote:
flash7210 wrote:
Quote:
ALSO, the turbo appears to be seized...


That answers a lot.
The turbo likely seized do to lack of oil.
I suspect the crank/rod bearings did the same.


If that ends up being the case do you bother rebuilding this engine or roll the dice on an LKQ engine with a decent story. :dizzy:

I'm not sure there are many people that want to spend the money to buy a CRD with the engine replaced, I'd imagine it would be $8-9K break-even.


Look at what you have to compete with in the market!!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Jeep-Libe ... 4V&vxp=mtr
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