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 Post subject: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Well, I'm now the owner of another Jeep CRD, but this one was bought DOA as a Spring/Summer project car. :dizzy:

P.O. says car was traveling down the highway and started losing power and eventually stopped and wouldn't start again. Took it to a repair shop and they told him the motor wasn't turning over and needed a new motor.

Guy spent LOTS of money in maintenance and upgrades but it looks like after 130K miles there's no evidence of timing belt change :oops: or fuel lift pump, but there is an inline thermostat :shock: and a receipt for a GDE hot tune. :BANANA:

This one won't be solved in the next week or two so you've got time to think about your cause of death explanation. :dead:

Now the only thing is to figure out how much time/money to put into this thing if I'm going to flip it.... :5SHOTS:

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#1 2006 Silver CRD Limited, flipped spare tire, ASFIR skids, GDE TCM & ecotune, blue SAMCOs, ETECNO 7V glow plugs, Rotella T6, intank fuel pump, Gen2 fuel head, new crank sensor, JBA 2.5 in silver package, Provent and ARB bumper
#2 2006 Metallic Green Limited; currently DOA


Last edited by CGman on Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:25 pm 
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Does the motor turn over?

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2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
GDE ECO FT & TCM Tunes - Gen2 Fuel Head - Magnaflow Exhaust - Ram transmission swap - Facet 40109 Lift Pump
Moab Wheels - 245/75/R16 LR E Cooper Discoverer AT3 Tires - OME Lift 790/90009 948/60069 - Etecno Glow Plugs - V6 Airbox
RUNNING B100
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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:06 pm 
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Several possibilities, really need a little more information to be helpful.... :roll:

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Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
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Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:35 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
The EXTREMELY limited information you've given, I'm wondering if the inline thermostat somehow resulted in localized overheating in the cylinder head. Not saying that's what it is, but I'd put it down as a possible contributor.

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CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
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ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
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PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:01 pm 
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Best off the wall worst case scenario guess without more information; A dropped exhaust valve! :grim:

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/Hayden HD clutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:09 pm 
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CGman wrote:
Well, I'm now the owner of another Jeep CRD, but this one was bought DOA as a Spring/Summer project car. :dizzy:

P.O. says car was traveling down the highway and started losing power and eventually stopped and wouldn't start again. Took it to a repair shop and they told him the motor wasn't turning over and needed a new motor.

Now the only thing is to figure out how much time/money to put into this thing if I'm going to flip it.... :5SHOTS:


Based on that description, my guess is cracked head that quickly started releasing coolant into a (or multiple) cylinder causing a loss of power and eventual hydrolock of the motor. Doesn't say if anyone has removed a glow plug or injector to check for coolant yet...so that's my guess!

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2006 Limited CRD: Frankenlift II, Fumoto Drain Plug, DIY Stage 1 Tune, In-Tank Lift Pump


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:20 pm 
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spontaneous crankshaft disintegration :dizzy:

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Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, 255-75-17 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:28 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Best off the wall worst case scenario guess without more information; A dropped exhaust valve! :grim:


I'm with WW. We've seen this episode before. I'm guessing that the reason we see dropped valves on the highway is that they have time to heat up, and there is a relatively high amount of force applied to the valve from highway speed rpm's. But I'm no expert on broken valves

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat, Ironrock trilink,OME lift, JBA UCA's, Moabs&245/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,Truetrac front,FFD fan,ARP's, new head,rockers, cams,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, Suncoast TC, welded EGR port & trans drain, muffler delete,
Mech fan, VH & AC delete,tensioner relocated
-CRD's being restored


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:09 pm 
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A couple more things:

PO said there were no unusual noises during the power loss, and he even thought it might just be an electrical problem

Engine could not be turned over by hand at the repair shop after the incident, and they told the PO they scoped the cylinders but didn't see anything unusual, but they may have only been looking through glowplug holes.

Question: Would a dropped valve 'go quietly into that good night' or would it make a big racket?

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#1 2006 Silver CRD Limited, flipped spare tire, ASFIR skids, GDE TCM & ecotune, blue SAMCOs, ETECNO 7V glow plugs, Rotella T6, intank fuel pump, Gen2 fuel head, new crank sensor, JBA 2.5 in silver package, Provent and ARB bumper
#2 2006 Metallic Green Limited; currently DOA


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:12 pm 
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A dropped valve would not be quiet and would quickly bring the engine to a halt.

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Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, 255-75-17 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:55 pm 
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If the motor really wont turn over, then the only thing I can think of is a seized bearing on the crank. Without evidence of an obvious failure in one of the cylinders and no noise or "bang" then what else can it be?

Can the transmission and torque converter fail in a locked state, preventing the motor from turning and also simultaneously bog the motor down until it stalls? Quite a long shot there...

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2006 Limited CRD: Frankenlift II, Fumoto Drain Plug, DIY Stage 1 Tune, In-Tank Lift Pump


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 Update Feb 26
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:57 pm 
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Weather finally warmed up and I got a couple of hours to tear into things. I'll let the pictures speak for me.

Image

Image

Image

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#1 2006 Silver CRD Limited, flipped spare tire, ASFIR skids, GDE TCM & ecotune, blue SAMCOs, ETECNO 7V glow plugs, Rotella T6, intank fuel pump, Gen2 fuel head, new crank sensor, JBA 2.5 in silver package, Provent and ARB bumper
#2 2006 Metallic Green Limited; currently DOA


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 Update Feb 26
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:53 pm 
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CGman wrote:
Weather finally warmed up and I got a couple of hours to tear into things. I'll let the pictures speak for me.

Image

Image

Image


hmm the strong silent type. im not so sure they are saying much, looks like a high mileage oily turbo and some hoses removed.

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2006 CRD Stock with ORM and a clean MAP (always)


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:16 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Looks to me there is a LOT of oil going through the CCV puck to the turbo inlet. I can't believe it's not been wiped clean though, considering how much of the oil is seeping out the turbo CAC hose connection (looks to be improperly clamped) and allowing the oil to creep down around the turbo compressor housing and yuck things up.

I'm betting a provent, a new turbo inlet hose, and pressure test of the CAC hoses would clean things up

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 148Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:37 am 
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CGman wrote:
Weather finally warmed up and I got a couple of hours to tear into things. I'll let the pictures speak for me.

Image



WTF did you do to your timing belt cover!?!
Like, seriously, why???

When I try to zoom in on the timing belt, I don’t see any belt on those cam sprockets.
Please tell me I’m wrong :shock:

I see you have your radiator and intercooler already removed.
How much oil was trapped in the intercooler?

What’s the engine oil level look like?
Any evidence of coolant mixing with the engine oil?

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, 255-75-17 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:11 am 
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flash7210 wrote:
CGman wrote:
Weather finally warmed up and I got a couple of hours to tear into things. I'll let the pictures speak for me.



WTF did you do to your timing belt cover!?!
Like, seriously, why???

When I try to zoom in on the timing belt, I don’t see any belt on those cam sprockets.
Please tell me I’m wrong :shock:

I see you have your radiator and intercooler already removed.
How much oil was trapped in the intercooler?

What’s the engine oil level look like?
Any evidence of coolant mixing with the engine oil?


The whole engine bay is pretty dirty, and not just the turbo area, but also the rack and pinion area and even the top of the engine.

My son ( the shop ape who apparently is training for a job at LKQ) :frankie: is the one who 'examined' the timing belt. It's there, just extremely dusty/dirty, and there's no evidence that it's ever been changed. :banghead:

The son/ape removed the radiator/intercooler and it's trapped in the back of the jeep until I fix the dead battery. (Design flaw!!)

As you can see, the degas/coolant tank is dirty looking also, I can't rule out oil in the coolant, and I don't know whether fluids were drained and refilled with clean ones before I got the Jeep.

ALSO, the turbo appears to be seized, I couldn't get it to turn at all with my finger. :furious:

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#1 2006 Silver CRD Limited, flipped spare tire, ASFIR skids, GDE TCM & ecotune, blue SAMCOs, ETECNO 7V glow plugs, Rotella T6, intank fuel pump, Gen2 fuel head, new crank sensor, JBA 2.5 in silver package, Provent and ARB bumper
#2 2006 Metallic Green Limited; currently DOA


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:23 am 
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Quote:
ALSO, the turbo appears to be seized...


That answers a lot.
The turbo likely seized do to lack of oil.
I suspect the crank/rod bearings did the same.

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, 255-75-17 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:55 am 
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flash7210 wrote:
Quote:
ALSO, the turbo appears to be seized...


That answers a lot.
The turbo likely seized do to lack of oil.
I suspect the crank/rod bearings did the same.


If that ends up being the case do you bother rebuilding this engine or roll the dice on an LKQ engine with a decent story. :dizzy:

I'm not sure there are many people that want to spend the money to buy a CRD with the engine replaced, I'd imagine it would be $8-9K break-even.

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#1 2006 Silver CRD Limited, flipped spare tire, ASFIR skids, GDE TCM & ecotune, blue SAMCOs, ETECNO 7V glow plugs, Rotella T6, intank fuel pump, Gen2 fuel head, new crank sensor, JBA 2.5 in silver package, Provent and ARB bumper
#2 2006 Metallic Green Limited; currently DOA


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:48 am 
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Lets see, Turbo seized, and engine cannot be turned over by hand with a wrench; this is not looking good. :grim:
Is there any oil still in the engine? Does the dipstick show anything? I don't believe you stated?
Have you tried draining the oil out of the engine and if so how much came out?

If the engine truly ran out of oil, and seized up, a good used engine would be much cheaper than having to rebuild and replace all the bad and stressed parts in your current engine.
And, when an engine runs out of oil to the point of locking up, there is a tremendous amount of heat generated since there is nothing there to lubricate and remove heat from all the moving friction parts. So even after rebuilding, parts that were heat stressed may come back and fail at a later date or time.

I have taken gas engines apart in the past that ran out of oil for various reasons, and it is not pretty! Some extreme cases had to be taken apart with a cutting torch. :roll:
It can get really ugly.... :shock:

_________________
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/Battery Tray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/Hayden HD clutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair,K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Guess the failure - Episode 2 update Feb 26
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:06 pm 
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CGman wrote:
flash7210 wrote:
Quote:
ALSO, the turbo appears to be seized...


That answers a lot.
The turbo likely seized do to lack of oil.
I suspect the crank/rod bearings did the same.


If that ends up being the case do you bother rebuilding this engine or roll the dice on an LKQ engine with a decent story. :dizzy:

I'm not sure there are many people that want to spend the money to buy a CRD with the engine replaced, I'd imagine it would be $8-9K break-even.


Look at what you have to compete with in the market!!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Jeep-Libe ... 4V&vxp=mtr

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2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40

hex head oil pan plug.
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed..
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18


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