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 Post subject: Serpentine Belt Alternative Lengths
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:38 pm 
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This thread is intended to provide the lengths, and where possible PN's (Part Numbers), for installing non-stock serpentine belt lengths in modified routings. Contributors are encouraged to clearly specify how they altered their accessory routings, including whether they are using OEM-diameter (=2.75"/70mm) pulley(s) for the 2 idlers and/or tensioner pulley (other custom location?).
It is assumed that the stock harmonic balancer (crankshaft) is driving your belt. Please specify if you have somehow modified your harmonic-balancer setup.
SUGGESTED ABBREVIATIONS FOR SERP-DRIVEN COMPONENTS:
(In order of belt rotation)
HB= Harmonic Balancer (Crankshaft)
TP= Tensioner Pulley.
PS= Power Steering pump
VH= Viscous Heater
IPA= Idler Pulley "A"
ALT= Alternator
IPB= Idler Pulley "B"
AC= Air Conditioning Pump
MF= Mechanical Fan
------------------------------------------------------

STOCK (OEM) SERPENTINE BELT
(ALL climates, hi-load):
LENGTH: 113"/2870mm
NAPA PN(Part Number): 25-061130.
(feel free to provide other parts suppliers' & their PN's).

ALL JEEP LIBERTY CRD SERPENTINE BELTS ARE 6-RIB "V" STYLE; WIDTH= .80"/20.5MM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE FOLLOWING ALTERNATIVES TO A COMPLETELY-STOCK SERPENTINE BELT-DRIVEN SETUP ARE CONSIDERED TO:
- Increase HP
- Increase MPG
- Reduce load on engine
- Reduce component wear through seasonal modification.

----------------------------------------------------------------
A. NO VISCOUS HEATER (40f-HOT climate, hi-load setup):

BELT LENGTH= 101.5"/2578mm. Duralast PN 1015K6*
**IPA= 3.54"/90mm, Ribbed/Flanged. Duralast PN 131082**
IPB= STOCK (2.75")
PIC-LINK:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i5vh4ppwdlqzp ... 2.jpg?dl=0
Note serp-clearance @ TP (3/8") & @ IPA-MF(5/16").
**UPDATE: This opposite-routing around IPA may be susceptible to loosening from rotational-force. Use blue threadlocker and regularly inspect mounting-bolt tightness.**

---------------------------------------------------------------
B. NO AC (COLD-80f climate, hi-load setup):

--------------------------------------------------------------
C. NO AC/VISCOUS HEATER (40-80f climate, hi-load setup):

BELT LENGTH*= 89"/2260mm. Duralast PN 890K6.
IPA= DuralastPN 131082: 3.54"/90mm, Ribbed/Flanged
IPB= Duralast PN 62176: 3"/76mm Ribbed/Flanged
* Updated from 89.5"/PN 895K6; PS was slipping @low RPMs
-----------------------------------------------------------------
D. NO MECHANICAL FAN (COLD-HOT climate, LOW-load):

----------------------------------------------------------------
E. NO AC/MECHANICAL FAN (COLD climate, LOW-load setup):

BELT LENGTH= 88.2"/2240mm. Duralast PN 882K6.
IPA/IPB Stock (2.75"/70mm).
----------------------------------------------------------------
F. NO VISCOUS HEATER/AC/MECHANICAL FAN (40-80f Climate, LOW-load):

BELT LENGTH= 76.3"/1938mm, Duralast PN 763K6
IPA= Duralast PN 131082: 3.54"/90mm, Ribbed/Flanged
IPB= Deleted.
PIC LINK: Tensioner-clearance is circled;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ti8g0gxnnmmiu ... 2.jpg?dl=0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALL SCENARIOS OF "NO MECHANICAL FAN" PRESUME INSTALLATION OF AN ELECTRICAL-FAN COOLING ALTERNATIVE!

KEEP IN MIND THAT RESULTS MAY VARY. There is every chance that you may have to substitute the next shorter/longer belt for your specific modified setup (keep your receipts for exchange!).

My Two Cents (which I'll update as my grasp & setup improves):

UPDATE: This entire experiment has been kinda' ridiculous.
My goal of a VH/AC/MF delete has hit some snags:
- MAINLY, WITH THE SERP THREADING OVER INSTEAD OF UNDER THE 3.54" OVERSIZED IPA IT MAY BE SUSCEPTIBLE TO UNSCREWING ITSELF! Although I used blue-threadlocker on the IPA's reverse-threaded mounting bolt, with the rotational-force reversed from stock it may have been coaxed slightly loose. I'm evaluating further after re "blue-locking" the bolt.
- My local MX machine shop wants $75 (1400pesos) to fabricate two separate plates to effectively replace the single OEM MF-bracket. "Two" because it is a LOT easier to fabricate 2X something which requires orienting only two mounting holes vs. 1x replicating the layout of the OEM bracket's four mounting-holes. That quote includes providing a threaded-sleeve on each plate for mounting a serp-pulley; for the IPA on one plate & on the other plate for a pulley-sleeve located in place of the MF shaft. The IPA would be standard-threaded, removing concern of it unscrewing itself through rotational force; the MF substitute-pulley would have a reverse-threaded sleeve for the same reason.
All sleeves would be gussetted for rigidity & strength.
Anyhoo, that setup would replace the heavy, protruding MF hub with a low-profile, low-drag idler-pulley. Tempting.

"C" Serp-Routing, excluding AC/VH (but including PS/ALT/MF).
ALL REPLACEMENT PN's ABOVE.
Route threads HB-TP-PS-IPA-ALT-IPB-MF-HB.
Substitutes a necessarily larger IPA in order to clear the TP when threaded PS-IPA-ALT. Serp threads OVER the larger IPA, and threads OUTSIDE of IPB (opposite of stock routing around both idlers):
UPDATE: This opposite-routing around IPA & IPB may be susceptible to loosening from rotational-force. Use caution and regularly inspect mounting-bolts' tightness.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ru4kaeeogfqoa ... 7.jpg?dl=0
Circled in Pic: Ribbed, large IPA; subsequent space created between TP & PS-IPA belt-run; resulting space between IPA & MF tight, but adequate. UPDATE: after deciding on 895K6 belt, the belt fits closer to the TP than in the pic, but is still acceptable (longer belt= more relaxed tensioner).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h5rpod13b9rfo ... 2.jpg?dl=0
Pic shows 6 bearings sacrificed to learning curve & the many pulleys subjected to experimentation (ignore bearing box). Labels inserted in pic show autozone PN's for the 'victorious' bearings (w/metal seals) & the v-ribbed pulleys substituted for the stock IPA&IPB.
(Note: Incorrect 7-rib pulley corrected to 6-rib Duralast PN 62176 for IPB. Apologies if anybody purchased PN for 7-rib in past 2 days).

"E" Serp-routing, excluding AC/MF (but incl. PS/VH/ALT):
BELT LENGTH= 2240mm/88.2", Duralast PN 882K6.
Stock-diameter TP & IPA pulleys; routing eliminates IPB, running directly between the ALT-HB; rest of routing threads stock between HB-TP-PS-VH-IPA-ALT-HB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONCLUSIONS RE SERP-BELT TENSION/DEFLECTION:
UPDATED- At 1/2" tensioner-load, the PS pump (power steering) was slipping at low rpm/load causing heavy steering. Installing a 1/2"-shorter serp increased the tensioner-load to 1" (from fully-relaxed) and issue solved. Also gained the added benefit of additional space between the tensioner-pulley and belt-run from PS-IPA. This also revealed that the PS will slip before slippage at the ALT or MF.
"Tensioner Load" is more important than how much "flex-deflection" you feel in the mounted belt. Once the belt is on, when you "relax" the tensioner it can settle to a position 1" tighter than "unloaded".
When sizing alternative-setup serp-lengths your 'canary in a coal-mine' is "heavy steering" when your jeep is WARM AND AT IDLE. As long as you have "normal" power-steering at all rpm's the serp isn't too loose.
You want to strike a balance, maintaining adequate "play" at the tensioner so that it has sufficient 'throw' when the serp is suddenly placed under load. 1" of tensioner 'load' seems fairly ideal.
Other opinions welcome.

Keywords: accessory belt specification, accessory-belt, serp belt specs, serp-belt, serpentine-belt, viscous-heater removal


Last edited by Gypsy62 on Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:25 pm, edited 50 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt Alternative Lengths
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 3369
Location: Central GA
Two pulleys I have on file for consideration depending on location and need, grooved or non-grooved! Others may have some different proven PN's

Non-grooved for back side of belt
Gates 36141
Material: Steel
Pulley Inside Diameter (mm): 17mm
Pulley Outside Diameter (mm): 76mm (2.99 in)
Pulley Type: Serpentine
Number Of Pulley Grooves: 0

Grooved for grooved side of belt
Gates 36157
Material: Steel
Pulley Inside Diameter (mm): 17mm
Pulley Outside Diameter (mm): 87mm (3.42 in)
Number Of Pulley Grooves: 6
Contact Surface: V-Ribbed Grooved

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 Post subject: Re: Serpentine Belt Alternative Lengths
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:31 pm
Posts: 244
It would be helpful, I think, if folks listed their 'delete-pulley-belt' setups as briefly and concisely as possible. After, they can elaborate on their setup.
Ex:

" My AC/MF delete:
Pulleys,
IPA= NAPA PN ______ (flanged, ribbed 3.5");
IPB= OEM;
SERP BELT= AZONE PN _________ (118")" .
Threading= 'HB-TP-PS-VH-IPA-ALT-IPB-HB'."

"I wanted a setup that suits my home in the tundra..."

It is as easy as herding cats to achieve consensus on delete-routing component-combinations. Sometimes the determining factors for PN's are preferred or accessible store brands.
At least standardizing and simplifying setup-descriptions assists folks to list the parts necessary to achieve their personal objectives.


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