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 Post subject: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:47 pm 
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I CHANGED THE HEADER TO ENCOURAGE MORE UNIVERSAL FAB-IDEAS FROM THE LJ COLLECTIVE GENIUS.
IF ONE OF YOU "HITS IT OUTTA' THE PARK" I'LL REWARD YOU APPROPRIATELY IF I UNDERTAKE LARGE-VOLUME PRODUCTION HERE IN MX.

MY LATEST:
In the spirit of serp-driven DIY accessories, how about a simple TWIN'd metal pulley, so that you'd have a protruding 2nd pulley available to use as/when desired?

A 2-wide pulley could function like a poor-man's PTO, providing a reasonably-robust "energy source" for all kinds of whacky stuff, maybe even something useful!
How about a serp-driven small, clutch'd, 110vac generator and/or air compressor in place of the VH, and/or replacing Idler Pulley B, mounted on that side of engine?

ANYBODY KNOW HOW UNIVERSAL THE LIBBY'S SERP-BELT IS?
WHAT ELSE (other jeeps?) USES THE 6-RIBBED, SAME-WIDTH BELT?

REGARDING A CUSTOM MECHANICAL FAN BRACKET, ALL DESIGN SUGGESTIONS ON THE TABLE, please.
I'm employing a local (Ensenada, Baja) metal fabrication shop to execute the custom Mechanical Fan (MF) replacement bracket. Absent better design ideas and/or greater interest, I'll proceed with a one-off design to meet my own needs. I'll post pics and results.

In any MF-delete setup, a reduced-size bracket:
- Provides more room for installing an electric "puller" fan
- Permits installation of a larger upper-pulley on bracket (useful for avoiding the tensioner-pulley in PS/Idler/ALT routing, among others)
- Reduces annoying protruding MF hub/pulley assembly
- ???

I had envisioned a fairly simple substitute bracket that just chopped-off the lower-portion of the original bracket, deleting the MF hub/pulley/shaft/bearing assembly, including the longer (4th) mounting bolt. However, it occurs to me that there may well be other more advisable and/or versatile design concepts.

One design alternative: keep essentially the entire original bracket design, but substitute a pulley-spec threaded-sleeve in place of the stock MF pulley-shaft.
That design would:
- Retain an upper/lower dual-pulley bracket, but substitite a smaller, MUCH lighter lower-pulley in place of the MF-hub, reducing serp-drag and increasing the clearance available for substituting a larger upper-pulley
- Replicate the stock MF-pulley's increased serp-contact around the harmonic balancer
- Be somewhat less protrusive than the stock MF-hub.

Obviously, the more complex the design requirements the higher the cost of fabrication. A balance between cost & complexity could be struck, making the bracket as useful as possible to as many people as possible at the lowest possible cost.

I intend to obtain pricing on 1/10/20/50 units.
It's true that compared to the US most MX shops do not have the latest, greatest equipment. However, the skilled pros here take great pride in their trade and craft and create very good work.
I am not interested in fancy-finishing the metal surface of the bracket(s). Upon receipt, others are welcome to prime, paint, powder-coat or plate(lol) to their own liking.

In small-volume, any jeep-related fab-runs of brackets, boomerangs, etc. constitutes a "hobby" side-project for me. Accordingly, I am open to LJ members suggestions regarding what would be reasonable per-unit remuneration-above-cost for my time coordinating the design, fabrication, test-fitting, packaging and shipping of custom products.

For enhanced delivery time/reliability, all shipping would originate in the US (excepting any MX destinations). As I suspect some are aware, currently there's some political turmoil surrounding nafta. Nonetheless, at least regarding the importation of limited-run parts to the US in 'discrete' quantities, I doubt there would be any "duty" liability. After all, the loveable Sgt. Fido is not trained to sniff-out contraband custom jeep-parts. Yet.

Regarding undertaking MX fabrication of WW's custom "boomerang", I'm mulling it over. It would be helpful to have some sense of the # of people seriously interested. It's size, weight and shape present unique packaging as well as transport, import & shipping-expense challenges. This April, I could hand-deliver orders to Socal-Vegas-Phoenix & possibly Norcal-Reno.
I'll try to obtain boomerang fab-estimates while filling the bracket order.

Thanks, and Suerte!


Last edited by Gypsy62 on Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:28 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Mechanical Fan Bracket: Suggestions? Requests?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:13 pm 
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While you are talking to them, perhaps an option for a replaceable bearing on said bracket would be possible?

My sister's Jeep needed my help last week, but not for the expected bearing-failed-and-spat-the-fan-into-the-radiator problem. The bearing was actually *just fine* and instead the pulley itself (and the fan) was ejected from the shaft. Bearing still feels just fine, which is something of a surprise.

So is there a better option to attach / secure the bearing and pulley? Whether the mechanical fan is retained or not, I would prefer to still have that option if possible. It is only a set of threads on the pulley.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Mechanical Fan Bracket: Suggestions? Requests?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 pm 
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Geordi:
The fan bracket I am using is missing it’s pulley because the exact same thing happened to its previous owner. I guess you could just spot weld the pulley in place.

Gypsy:
If you want a bracket that eliminates all of the fan parts, just replicate the top part of the bracket that is the three bolts and idler pulley.
If you want to create a new bracket that retains the fan pulley, do some research on other common fan pulleys that could be used. Because obviously the factory pulley and bearing is total crap.

BTW, I am interested in the IRO rear upper axle bracket. I am planning to be in Reno in June. That is, if you plan to be in that area at that time.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Mechanical Fan Bracket: Suggestions? Requests?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:14 am 
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Definitely interested in rear UCA bracket. If you start a new thread with this bracket in the title you'll probably get a lot more people to view the thread.

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Mech fan, VH & AC delete,tensioner relocated
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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:29 am 
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Today my friendly-neighborhood machine-shop here in Baja quoted $75* (1400pesos) to fabricate two separate plates to effectively replace the single OEM Mechanical Fan(MF) bracket. "Two" because it is a LOT easier to fabricate 2X something which requires orienting only two mounting holes vs. 1x replicating the layout of the OEM bracket's four mounting-holes.
That quote includes 2 plates, each with:
- 2 OEM-replicate, non-threaded, block-mounting sleeves;
- A threaded-sleeve for mounting a serp-pulley (on one plate for the IPA & on the other plate for a pulley to replace the MF shaft).

The IPA's sleeve would be standard-threaded, removing concern of it unscrewing itself through rotational force. The MF substitute-pulley would have a reverse-threaded sleeve for the same reason.
All sleeves would be gussetted for rigidity & strength.
Anyhoo, that setup would replace the heavy, protruding MF hub with a low-profile low-drag idler-pulley.
Tempting.

Here is a few ultra-simple pic-links to illustrate the basic idea... try to visualize the tubes mounted on small triangular pieces of steel w/2 drilled-flanges for mounting to block:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/syvg210tx2vfd ... 9.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2gdv9r2oqkic ... 3.jpg?dl=0

If anyone wants to replace their Mechanical-Fan bracket and fab their own substitute pulley-mounts:
- For mounting the Idler Pulley A, you'll need a 46mm sleeve/spacer/tube etc for bolting directly to any of the engine block's 3 upper OEM-bracket's mounting-holes;
- To replace the MF hub with an idler pulley, the OEM-bracket's recessed lower, single, longer mounting-bolt requires a 63mm sleeve/spacer/tube.
Those measurements of 46&63mm presume that the pulleys are bolted using the OEM-pulley's insert-flange (about 5mm).

While experimenting, I (temporarily) installed my electric fan ('92 taurus, used) and made a few day-trips with NO serp-belt.
FUN! No pulley-drag. I'd be very curious to see the results if placed on a dyno.

*$75 seems eminently fair for what's probably around 5-hours of pro fabrication...


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:45 am 
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Interested in the boomerang bracket.

Might be Interested in the mech fan replacement. I think it would be cool if you could still have more clearance and still swap out a mech fan on there if you needed or wanted. Kinda a universal for everyone thing.

Did you have to do any thing to your taurus fan to get it to fit. Or did I fit because you are running witout a mech fan bracket / pulley?

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:41 am 
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With the mechfan unscrewed, there's still enough room to mount the taurus fan onto the radiator in front of the MF's hub.
Here's a pic of my taurus-shroud ultra-pro mounting system:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/67jhnrhkvursn ... 1.jpg?dl=0

The goofy metal tabs mate solidly to the CRD's OEM radiator.
I trimmed the taurus' shroud using Beijing tool's 'vibro-tool' & notched the shroud's edge so that it would seat fairly close to the radiator's surface in order to enhance cooling efficiency, especially because the shroud doesn't cover 25% of the rad's surface:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ms5bji477zhou ... 0.jpg?dl=0

I'll say this, the 'feel' of the CFM of air that the taurus fan moves (on LOW) seems greater than what the mechfan moves.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:57 am 
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That looks like what I was gonna do with my brackets on my fan mod. Great minds ha. Nice trimming that looks straighter than mine. I trimmed my shroud so it mounts a little over a half inch from the rad. It doesn't covers all but one inch of the rad long ways, but the tbird shroud is bigger. I know what you mean about it feeling like it moves more airnplus it's closer so that has to count for something right? I posted a video of hi and low of my fan in another thread if you wanna see it for comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:18 am 
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ryanchris wrote:
Interested in the boomerang bracket.

In the process of building some more of the adaptors for the Iron Rock boomerang replacement. Local fab shop is cutting out the pieces for me today.
I am also in the process of building a jig to hold pieces in proper alignment for welding. Should have two of the mounts fabricated and available by the end of this week.
One is already promised to mountainman.
PM me if interested.

:SOMBRERO:

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Cool! (Initiative? Oughtta' be a law! lol.)

I know volume matters in these runs.
Presuming <20 members want one of these(?), what's going to make this fair to you @ $$$? (If you prefer, please PM me)

What's the ballpark shipping weight?


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:35 pm 
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THAR SHE BLOWS !!!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3kyxmkyn8e0f ... 7.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tyj5j4x9mryu2 ... 9.jpg?dl=0

Testing it today. Heavy-duty little puppy. And they even painted it Black! 700 pesos/$38, out-the-door.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:14 pm 
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Gypsy62 wrote:
THAR SHE BLOWS !!!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3kyxmkyn8e0f ... 7.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tyj5j4x9mryu2 ... 9.jpg?dl=0

Testing it today. Heavy-duty little puppy. And they even painted it Black! 700 pesos/$38, out-the-door.


I like it.

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intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:55 pm 
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Flash, WW & Geordi:
PM in your boxes.

Unrelated: the 101.5" serp in my VH-delete setup shredded:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vuil724p2kkf ... 5.jpg?dl=0

This has me wondering:
A. Is it possible that the flanged-pulleys are not advisable because the serp experiences lateral-play during torque variation, causing it to ride (a) pulley-flange and "strip" as in the pic..
B. The setup calls for a tighter(shorter) belt


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:28 pm 
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It may call for a shorter belt so there's not as much room for elastic variation allowing it to climb the pulleys.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:34 pm 
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Flash's response on other thread suggests that too TIGHT may have been responsible.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:49 pm 
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Gypsy62 wrote:
Flash's response on other thread suggests that too TIGHT may have been responsible.

Easy enough to test...

But loose is a problem since the tensioner is on the push side of the crankshaft, between the crank and the cams. ALL stretch, no matter what it's from ends up at the tensioner. If it runs out of ability to take up slack, the belt just comes off.

Stick your GoPro in there with a new belt and let us see what it's doing!

Edit - No matter what happens, at least you'll have something to post on YouTube.

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 148Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
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YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
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GM 15017911
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2010 Ram Hemi Trans
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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:31 pm 
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Good idea. I'll dust-off my hero4, lol.
Actually, I'm pretty sure there's a family of hamsters hiding in there somewhere. Maybe I can catch them simultaneously flipping-off the serp as well as the camera :rockon: :-)r :rockon:


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:17 pm 
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I'm proceeding with the 2nd custom (lower) bracket.
Unfortunately, that means I've got to reinstall the MF serp-setup (for the $#%@ 100th time). Given the flat, wide belt-surface on the MF pulley, the fab-shop needs the precise serp 'lay' in order to accurately mount/align the new pulley on the custom bracket. Unlike the MF, the new replacement-pulley is flanged and only serp-wide, therefore it has to be precisely aligned with the belt-travel.

I'm going to examine whether there's any benefit gained by shifting the new pulley's axis, compared to the stock MF shaft's location. Input welcome!

Those who've pm'd interest in obtaining the 1st "upper" MF-replace bracket (installed/approved) may want to wait until the "lower" is done and tested. Given the combined objectives of VH/MF-delete & added-clearance for a (puller) elec-fan install, it may make sense to request the pair at once.
Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Yeah, I'd be on the "get both at the same time" list there.

For options on the idler positioning, how it comes off the nearby pulleys is what matters. (for example) If a pulley has 75% of the circle contacting the belt, then that pulley would need or generate quite a bit of friction with the belt. I don't think it will alter the angles of coverage very much to move it around, but it would be nice to remain with the same size belt just for simplicity if that is an option.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Fabrication Suggestions/Requests?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Interesting friction info.

Re the serp-length, same size as 'what', exactly?
That's the puzzle I'm contemplating.

Comparing various 'delete' setups, will any be coincidentally close enough to each other's serp-length to justify fabricating the lower-bracket with "X" pulley-offset (from the axis of the stock MF shaft)?

While it is hardly a mortal preponderence, I'll still kick myself if post-fabrication I, or anybody else, stumbles upon the fact that if the new pulley was oriented a half-inch R/L/Up/Down, it would have allowed serp-interchangeability with another setup.

Regarding the lower-pulley's exact location, other folk's may have concerns/suggestions beyond serp-interchangeability.

Addressing one obvious concern: installing a stock-diameter idler-pulley (2.75", metal, flanged) on the new lower-bracket will provide tons of room for any oversized IPA.


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