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 Post subject: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:54 pm 
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So as some of you might of seen in another thread I stumbled upon a good deal for a aftermarket v6 turbo tbird fan. It was a spectra cf15008 on amazon for around 50 bucks with prime shipping . (Dorman 620-118 another part number for the same fan.)

Here is a few good sites with alots of info on this fan and others like it.

http://www.powerperformancenews.com/tech-articles/installs-and-builds/the-big-chill-a-budget-approach-to-a-big-electric-fan-that-really-works/

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1111-electric-radiator-fans/


So I thought WTH I need another winter project and all I do is work on my jeep (currently have all the interior out as well trying some sound dampening stuff so I might be alittle delayed getting this fan install all wrapped up). Anyway it came in today, the fan in the stock from did not fit. I decided to go ahead and try to make it work anyway. After about an hour of rough trimming (I mean rough, I still have to clean it up alot) I made it to where I think it is going to work. What I did was take about 2 inches off the bigger / longer side of the fan shroud and the trimmed the whole shroud around where it meets the rad down about 2/3s of an inch.

Here are some early pictures and videos. Again it is rough.. And somehow when I was trimming the shroud down i managed to break the top off of the fan plug? Not sure how I managed that, but I might just go with the spade connectors now with removable epoxy instead of the stock connector pigtail.?


Before
Image

Stock fan shroud depth
Image

After
Image



Fan cut down
Image


One spot where the plastic broke but other than that it went smooth as could be expected hacking on it.
Image

Going to probably have to cut the other two brackets off for clearance and use some aluminum ones.
Image



So while the videos below are taking forever to process / upload thoughts anyone? Should i epoxy a side to the one i cut? Or just use some thick rubber seal? Better ideas for mounting ? I'm just gonna use some bendy metal and bolt it to the shroud so they can swivel around stuff. What temp switch on combo do you think? 210 /195 , 200/ 185 or 185 /170. I'm leaning 210. I am thinking have a toggle for high and one for off / winter. So 3 positions high (top), on with temp (middle) and off (bottom). Ive spec'd it all out most of it can be done with a few relays , wire and some time for around 100. So id have 150ish in the efan setup.

Videos

Low while on the Jeep
https://streamable.com/55fto


High while on the jeep
https://streamable.com/p6eeo


I also have videos testing fan in the floor if wanted. I let one of the paper towels go and the fan sucked it up. And no I didn't get that on video.



Lastly totally unrelated to the fan but i mentioned up top, bare jeep interior starting to put down deadening mat.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:37 pm 
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For those interested I have my preliminary parts list (after the fan its self of course)...

All the below are amazon prime (convenience). You will most likely need some odds and ends but if you have trouble getting those together I wouldn't think about doing it.

Image

Image

Total for Amazon Parts $115
Fan Cost New : $50 to $80 depending

Electronic fan installed for around or under: $200

Could of done it cheaper without the in coolant temp sensor (tee off of the heater core bypass 5/8s, for those of your with the egr delete it would replace the barb), but i didnt want to cheap out on the parts, wiring or relays. Since there is alot of talk about the load spikes with these fans blowing them. (See article on powerperformancenews above.) 12awg wire would probably work since none of the wire runs are very far from the batt. You could certainly use a cheaper switch or none at all. I just like the looks and function of the one pictured. Any on/off/on or three way switch may work.


Relay wiring Diagram
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:10 pm 
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You could just wire it into the OE fan harness. I had a Volvo version of the Taurus fan in mine and had it all wired into the OE harness and both speeds functioned. A quick tune can adjust what temperature low and high speeds come on at. I would still have it but I had pulled it out of a Volvo that rolled and didnt realize the fan was cracked. First test drive the fan came apart on me.

I am really looking to see how this works out or you. So far my experimentation with electric fans has been less than stellar on the jeep. What I had found was that while they worked fine at low speeds, when you were traveling at high speeds under high load(climbing a 7% grade for example) the fans were not moving air. My custom built radiator shroud was actually restricting the natural flow so much that it was overheating faster at highway speeds than if I just didnt have the fan or shroud on at all.

Right now I am just running a fan zip tied stright to the back of the radiator with no shroud. That way it still moves air at low speed but isn't a hindrance at high speed. Even in 40 degree weather I can get the jeep to start moving the temp needle right on extended climbs.

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:06 pm 
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mass-hole wrote:
You could just wire it into the OE fan harness. I had a Volvo version of the Taurus fan in mine and had it all wired into the OE harness and both speeds functioned. A quick tune can adjust what temperature low and high speeds come on at. I would still have it but I had pulled it out of a Volvo that rolled and didnt realize the fan was cracked. First test drive the fan came apart on me.

I am really looking to see how this works out or you. So far my experimentation with electric fans has been less than stellar on the jeep. What I had found was that while they worked fine at low speeds, when you were traveling at high speeds under high load(climbing a 7% grade for example) the fans were not moving air. My custom built radiator shroud was actually restricting the natural flow so much that it was overheating faster at highway speeds than if I just didnt have the fan or shroud on at all.

Right now I am just running a fan zip tied stright to the back of the radiator with no shroud. That way it still moves air at low speed but isn't a hindrance at high speed. Even in 40 degree weather I can get the jeep to start moving the temp needle right on extended climbs.


I thought about wiring it into the stock setup... But when my a.c. fan went out this fall I just researched and bought the best spec'd and slim fan I could for the front. I have a Mishimoto MMFAN-16 Slim Fan in place of the stock one pulling air right now if it needs to in the winter, since I removed the mech fan. So I really would like to keep that or its $70 wasted ha. I will swap the wires and make it a pusher. So it can help the tbird fan ever so little.

As for the loaded over heating that's the only time I've ever had trouble, pulling my boat 60 mph and up a hill. But when it happened I chased all kinds of gremlins only to find out my temp gauge was out of spec so not sure if it was really over heating or not. I have had the gauge flashed so we will see. I had an idea though if it still over heats that involved putting together a cheap 50 or so dollar meth spray kit and have a toggle for that or tie it into the high fan setting. That way the meth / water could cool the whole a.c./intercooler/rad stack. I had one on my 550 whp LS powered vehicle and it did an amazing job cooling the iat's.

What kinda fan you running now?

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Last edited by ryanchris on Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:10 pm 
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I agree on the highest temp setting though. Otherwise your fan will probably be on a LOT. Just from watching my coolant temps, its not uncommon for the temps to overshoot the tstat by 4 degrees during the time it takes the tstat to open. If you cut it too close to the tstat opening temp it will just be turning on for no reason.

210 is also still a bit before the tune starts to think about cutting fuel.

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:16 pm 
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ryanchris wrote:
That is
mass-hole wrote:
You could just wire it into the OE fan harness. I had a Volvo version of the Taurus fan in mine and had it all wired into the OE harness and both speeds functioned. A quick tune can adjust what temperature low and high speeds come on at. I would still have it but I had pulled it out of a Volvo that rolled and didnt realize the fan was cracked. First test drive the fan came apart on me.

I am really looking to see how this works out or you. So far my experimentation with electric fans has been less than stellar on the jeep. What I had found was that while they worked fine at low speeds, when you were traveling at high speeds under high load(climbing a 7% grade for example) the fans were not moving air. My custom built radiator shroud was actually restricting the natural flow so much that it was overheating faster at highway speeds than if I just didnt have the fan or shroud on at all.

Right now I am just running a fan zip tied stright to the back of the radiator with no shroud. That way it still moves air at low speed but isn't a hindrance at high speed. Even in 40 degree weather I can get the jeep to start moving the temp needle right on extended climbs.


I thought about wiring it into the stock setup... But when my a.c. fan went out this fall I just researched and bought the best spec'd and slim fan I could for the front. I have a Mishimoto MMFAN-16 Slim Fan in place of the stock one pulling air right now if it needs to in the winter, since I removed the mech fan. So I really would like to keep that or its $70 wasted ha. I will swap the wires and make it a pusher. So it can help the tbird fan ever so little.

As for the loaded over heating that's the only time I've ever had trouble, pulling my boat 60 mph and up a hill. But when it happened I chased all kinds of gremlins only to find out my temp gauge was out of spec so not sure if it was really over heating or not. I have had the gauge flashed so we will see. I had an idea though if it still over heats that involved putting together a cheap 50 or so dollar meth spray kit and have a toggle for that or tie it into the high fan setting. That way the meth / water could cool the whole a.c./intercooler/rad stack. I had one on my 550 whp LS powered vehicle and it did an amazing job cooling the iat's.

What kinda fan you running now?


When you overheated were you on the mechanical fan?

I have a 2 speed 18" derale fan right now but I dont recall it moving nearly the air that the volvo fan did the couple of times i had it running. I only have the electric in because its winter. I HAVE to run a mech fan in the summer. I've ditched the clutch and went to the 19" flex fan instead which is directly attached to the pulley. I bought a Hayden fan clutch 2 summers ago and it was DOA so I decided enough was enough. Not having a mechanical fan does make the Jeep noticably more spunky so i am trying to figure out how to make an electric work.

I no longer have a pusher fan in the front because I put in a 3.5" thick intercooler. I slide the A/C condenser back to radiator and put the new intercooler in the front where the fan would be.

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Yep I was running the hayden, stock steel fan, new rad, inline 180 stat (gutted stock unit) and all new coolant. Still had to roll the windows down and turn the heat on to keep it under temp and keep up with my buddies I was following to the lake. Never really shutdown on me or anything but it did do the dings. I had to slow down the first time it did it to me. After that I watched it pretty close. Always seemed to only happen when it was 90 plus outside, 60 plus mph towing on any kind of hill only. A.c. on would make it happen faster and heat on would cool it down a bit.

I've never really noticed a big change with the hayden. Maybe I got a bum one too? But my jeep doesn't have a lot helping it in cooling dept either big lift, big tires, and arb bumper.

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:55 pm 
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mass-hole wrote:
I no longer have a pusher fan in the front because I put in a 3.5" thick intercooler. I slide the A/C condenser back to radiator and put the new intercooler in the front where the fan would be.


That is some cool stuff I think I remember seeing that not now that you mention it if you posted about it.

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 Post subject: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:49 pm 
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ryanchris wrote:
Yep I was running the hayden, stock steel fan, new rad, inline 180 stat (gutted stock unit) and all new coolant. Still had to roll the windows down and turn the heat on to keep it under temp and keep up with my buddies I was following to the lake. Never really shutdown on me or anything but it did do the dings. I had to slow down the first time it did it to me. After that I watched it pretty close. Always seemed to only happen when it was 90 plus outside, 60 plus mph towing on any kind of hill only. A.c. on would make it happen faster and heat on would cool it down a bit.

I've never really noticed a big change with the hayden. Maybe I got a bum one too? But my jeep doesn't have a lot helping it in cooling dept either big lift, big tires, and arb bumper.


That is exactly what happened to me. I am in the mountains of Utah, so lots of big grades, and I was starting to have overheat issues as it started to warm up outside. First thing I did was order a Hayden clutch and saw no change in the overheating. I didn’t think my brand new clutch would be dead so I went through the rest of the system(Tstat, flush, water pump, etc etc). Nothing fixed it. I decided to test the Hayden in the oven as a last resort and it never locked up.

With the flex fan I have to really be flogging it. Like 3000’ climb at 100 degrees and a/c blasting.

I’ve also got a similar set up. Less lift and slight smaller tires but do have the arb.

ryanchris wrote:
mass-hole wrote:
I no longer have a pusher fan in the front because I put in a 3.5" thick intercooler. I slide the A/C condenser back to radiator and put the new intercooler in the front where the fan would be.


That is some cool stuff I think I remember seeing that not now that you mention it if you posted about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:49 pm 
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Maybe I will put my hayden in the oven when I get a chance. Wouldn't suprise me if it is bad my jeep has something against me or something. Fix one thing it's like ahhh but what about this.... :juggle: An example is the a.c. fan and rear window motor. I just got done doing a bunch of stuff and it was fine for a time.... Let it set for a bit fire it up bam my fan let's the magic smoke out... I was like ok no biggie it's got two and it's nice out, since its fall I'll roll the Windows down and not use a.c... I'll be damned if the rear window plastic reg support didn't break. I am thinking of replacing them all with steel when I take the door pannels off for my speakers and deadening install.
Starting to think the you wouldn't understand it's jeep thing means I still like it even though I spend all kinds of time and money on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:58 pm 
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Just following along here...


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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:09 pm 
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TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:
Just following along here...

Not sure how fast ill be able to report back on the fan since it isnt really going to be needed for a few months... Hell in KY now its like 10 and was in the negatives this morning. (Nothing like Aye Canada but still.) It is supposed to warm up in the next couple of days but i doubt ill have anything by then. I am going to order all the stuff in a day or so since need stuff to run a few lines and things while i have the interior out just in case. Amp wiring and leads for the lift pump in the back if i ever want to move it. Any other ideas while i have the space gents? I have pretty much the back third of the jeep covered in deadening now
..

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:34 pm 
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I got the top brackets kinda roughed out for the fan.

Image
(yeah I cracked my shrou... :( )

Everything is really tight probably have to take a little of the side I cut down to make it easier to get in and out since its almost right on 20 inches. There is maybe an inch on top and bottom not covered. It seems to run even better now and pulley more air through the rad even with just the top mounts hand tight. I might epoxy the bolts/ screws to the inside of the fan shroud and remove nuts from the front with the two rad bolts to undo the brackets and take the efan out. The mounts hit the upper rad hose and the driver boost hose.. Every thing is real cramped like said. Might have it mostly installed this weekend, but will be waiting on the switch it's not coming via amazon.

Mech fan hub is maybe an inch away.....

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:17 pm 
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What is the actual OD of the fan blade? It looks bigger than 18" if the shroud is 21x24 or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:37 am 
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It is every bit of 18. I think it was closer to 19 but I haven't worked on it for a few days. I was kinda burnt out on it all and taking a break. I know with it cut like it was I still had to sand down the cut side a lot more to make it for easy. If I had it to do over I might just mount it sideways since it kinda fit that way.. You would still have to cut on it but not as much. I just didn't like the shallow bracket mounting options that way. This weekend I did get it all installed minus the switch and coolant temp probe. I tested it all and works as it should. I haven't started or drove it since all my interior is still out. I did get the shorter belt and pulley installed for the vh bypass... However it is the 101.5 belt and I just read it might not be the ticket.
I can measure sometime when I am messing with it again if you want.

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:43 pm 
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ryanchris wrote:
It is every bit of 18. I think it was closer to 19 but I haven't worked on it for a few days. I was kinda burnt out on it all and taking a break. I know with it cut like it was I still had to sand down the cut side a lot more to make it for easy. If I had it to do over I might just mount it sideways since it kinda fit that way.. You would still have to cut on it but not as much. I just didn't like the shallow bracket mounting options that way. This weekend I did get it all installed minus the switch and coolant temp probe. I tested it all and works as it should. I haven't started or drove it since all my interior is still out. I did get the shorter belt and pulley installed for the vh bypass... However it is the 101.5 belt and I just read it might not be the ticket.
I can measure sometime when I am messing with it again if you want.


Any update on this? I am still interested but I really dont wanna waste anymore money on Efans if it simply wont work. I can still get my jeep to start to warm up a little on 95F day, A/C on, climbing out of salt lake city on I80 if i dont hit the O/D off switch and get my mechanical fan up to speed.

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 Post subject: Re: Efan thunderbird / taurus experiment
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:59 pm 
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And for those interested, I found this:

Image

The mk8 fans truly are beasts.

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