CRD oil report showing very high wear metals

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:40 am

When I last changed the oil on my dad's 05 CRD, I sent off a sample to Blackstone ... it came back with extremely high wear metals, bad enough that they called me to warn that a serious issue is going on. The iron levels were 10 times what they should be and aluminium, chromium, copper and lead were all very high as well. Of course they can't tell exactly where the metals are from. The thing is the car runs fine ... it starts in sub-freezing weather, idles fine and seems to have normal power. It's a little different feel from mine but I attributed that to mine having a GDE tune and his a stock tune. I don't notice an unusual amount of smoke ... at least not enough to see it in the mirrors while driving and it doesn't smoke at idle other than when first starting. A little history on this car: 20,000 miles ago it had a rocker collapse and the head was rebuilt. I sent out an oil sample on the first oil change after the rebuild and it also showed elevated wear metals, which they thought might be residual from the failure/rebuild. The next sample came back much improved. But this sample has come back looking dire again. It's also showing high viscocity and soot. I've always used Mobil 1 0w40 and the correct Mopar filter. So ... what should I do? My thought was to keep driving and try a shorter oil run (my dad did 7,000, which is much higher than I go, but Blackstone said they didn't consider that unusual or problematic) ... but I don't really want it to fail catestrophically and definitely not with my dad driving it (he's 77). Could some of the wear metals be turbo-related? Or anything else I can check short of tearing down the engine?

I'm thinking I'll try to push my dad to buy another car for himself, which he's been considering for a while, but I still want to hang on to his Jeep and keep it going. So ... what should I do with it?

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:57 am

They told me the exact same thing when I sent mine in around 100k miles. I’ll see if I can find my report.

Here it is:

This is the second report, but you can see the first one is on the right. This was after I did my timing belt, water pump, ARP head studs and new rocker arms. I run Rotella T6 5W-40 or Mobil 1 turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40. I also had been running a Amsoil dual bypass 2 Micron oil filter since 89,500 miles, so at least 1 or 2 changes prior to this. Ignore the 9 qts added, when the guy emailed me asking I thought he meant what was the fill volume, with the Dual filter setup I put in almost 9 qts now.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:29 pm

I'd consider switching to a 5w-40 oil.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:33 pm

BodhiBenz1987 wrote:

When I last changed the oil on my dad's 05 CRD, I sent off a sample to Blackstone ... it came back with extremely high wear metals, bad enough that they called me to warn that a serious issue is going on. The iron levels were 10 times what they should be and aluminium, chromium, copper and lead were all very high as well. Of course they can't tell exactly where the metals are from. The thing is the car runs fine ... it starts in sub-freezing weather, idles fine and seems to have normal power. It's a little different feel from mine but I attributed that to mine having a GDE tune and his a stock tune. I don't notice an unusual amount of smoke ... at least not enough to see it in the mirrors while driving and it doesn't smoke at idle other than when first starting. A little history on this car: 20,000 miles ago it had a rocker collapse and the head was rebuilt. I sent out an oil sample on the first oil change after the rebuild and it also showed elevated wear metals, which they thought might be residual from the failure/rebuild. The next sample came back much improved. But this sample has come back looking dire again. It's also showing high viscocity and soot. I've always used Mobil 1 0w40 and the correct Mopar filter. So ... what should I do? My thought was to keep driving and try a shorter oil run (my dad did 7,000, which is much higher than I go, but Blackstone said they didn't consider that unusual or problematic) ... but I don't really want it to fail catestrophically and definitely not with my dad driving it (he's 77). Could some of the wear metals be turbo-related? Or anything else I can check short of tearing down the engine?

I'm thinking I'll try to push my dad to buy another car for himself, which he's been considering for a while, but I still want to hang on to his Jeep and keep it going. So ... what should I do with it?

Hmm, TD rated mobil one right? I know it's a crazy question, but I'm sitting on a lost jeeps members seized engine, so I don't assume anything :dizzy:

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:42 pm

mass-hole wrote:

They told me the exact same thing when I sent mine in around 100k miles. I’ll see if I can find my report.

Here it is:

This is the second report, but you can see the first one is on the right. This was after I did my timing belt, water pump, ARP head studs and new rocker arms. I run Rotella T6 5W-40 or Mobil 1 turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40. I also had been running a Amsoil dual bypass 2 Micron oil filter since 89,500 miles, so at least 1 or 2 changes prior to this. Ignore the 9 qts added, when the guy emailed me asking I thought he meant what was the fill volume, with the Dual filter setup I put in almost 9 qts now.

Interesting ... I've always had pretty solid reports for my Jeep so the numbers on my dad's jump out at me. I'll post an actual copy of the report when I get home, but some of the metals in my dad's are significantly higher even than yours. The iron after 7k is 419; aluminium 17; chromium 25; copper 16; lead 22. The iron is a little lower than it was in the first change after the rebuild (it was 601 in 6,300 miles), but much higher than the sample in between (105 in 3k miles).

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:57 pm

Mountainman wrote:

Hmm, TD rated mobil one right? I know it's a crazy question, but I'm sitting on a lost jeeps members seized engine, so I don't assume anything :dizzy:

It's this one: https://www.mobil.com/english-au/passen ... bil-1-0w40 ... it is the oil recommended in the owner's manual for the 2.8L CRD. I've always used it in my Jeep as well and (knock on wood) have always had good results.

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:00 pm

flash7210 wrote:

I'd consider switching to a 5w-40 oil.

Which brand do you recommend? I've always done well with the 0w40 in mine but my dad's car has always had more issues ... I assume in part because I did the tune and he hasn't.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:06 pm

NOT THE RIGHT OIL.

That is primarily a GAS rated oil, that is the "european car formula" and is only rated CF for diesel which is the absolute minimum rating the CRD should ever have, and certainly not for extended drains. When the CRD was released, the CF standard had already been superseded several times and the current standard at that time was CH. The CF standard dates back to the mid 1990s.
The following are all acceptable options, and can be switched at will based on cost or preference within this list:
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40
Mobil 1 Delvac 1 (Silver bottle) 5W-40
Mobil 1 Delvac ESP (Silver bottle) 5W-40
Mobil 1 Delvac 1300 (black bottle) IS NOT ACCEPTABLE as it is not synthetic.

Shell Rotella T6 (blue bottle) 5W-40
Chevron Delo 400 - IF CH or higher rated and fully synthetic 5W-40 - information on this one is varied.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:13 pm

BodhiBenz1987 wrote:

Mountainman wrote:

Hmm, TD rated mobil one right? I know it's a crazy question, but I'm sitting on a lost jeeps members seized engine, so I don't assume anything :dizzy:

It's this one: https://www.mobil.com/english-au/passen ... bil-1-0w40 ... it is the oil recommended in the owner's manual for the 2.8L CRD. I've always used it in my Jeep as well and (knock on wood) have always had good results.

Good deal. I also avoid the thin 0w, despite the fact that I would love the small mpg increase. I think Rotella T6 is the best from a cost benefit approach.

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:20 pm

Here's the actual oil report, hopefully the image works from my phone

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:37 pm

geordi wrote:

NOT THE RIGHT OIL.

That is primarily a GAS rated oil, that is the "european car formula" and is only rated CF for diesel which is the absolute minimum rating the CRD should ever have, and certainly not for extended drains. When the CRD was released, the CF standard had already been superseded several times and the current standard at that time was CH. The CF standard dates back to the mid 1990s.
The following are all acceptable options, and can be switched at will based on cost or preference within this list:
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40
Mobil 1 Delvac 1 (Silver bottle) 5W-40
Mobil 1 Delvac ESP (Silver bottle) 5W-40
Mobil 1 Delvac 1300 (black bottle) IS NOT ACCEPTABLE as it is not synthetic.

Shell Rotella T6 (blue bottle) 5W-40
Chevron Delo 400 - IF CH or higher rated and fully synthetic 5W-40 - information on this one is varied.

The oil specified by the manufacturer is not the right oil? I probably shouldn't be surprised given Chrysler's general approach to this car, but I'm not sure why I would assume that. Especially considering I've sent about 20 samples to Blackstone, which is an oil specialist, and never once have they written back that this is not an adequate oil for this usage. I'll switch but it's kind of closing the barn door after the horse is out ... or would a couple of shorter runs with one of the above oils be enough?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:43 pm

BodhiBenz1987 wrote:

geordi wrote:

NOT THE RIGHT OIL.

That is primarily a GAS rated oil, that is the "european car formula" and is only rated CF for diesel which is the absolute minimum rating the CRD should ever have, and certainly not for extended drains. When the CRD was released, the CF standard had already been superseded several times and the current standard at that time was CH. The CF standard dates back to the mid 1990s.
The following are all acceptable options, and can be switched at will based on cost or preference within this list:
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40
Mobil 1 Delvac 1 (Silver bottle) 5W-40
Mobil 1 Delvac ESP (Silver bottle) 5W-40
Mobil 1 Delvac 1300 (black bottle) IS NOT ACCEPTABLE as it is not synthetic.

Shell Rotella T6 (blue bottle) 5W-40
Chevron Delo 400 - IF CH or higher rated and fully synthetic 5W-40 - information on this one is varied.

The oil specified by the manufacturer is not the right oil? I probably shouldn't be surprised given Chrysler's general approach to this car, but I'm not sure why I would assume that. Especially considering I've sent about 20 samples to Blackstone, which is an oil specialist, and never once have they written back that this is not an adequate oil for this usage. I'll switch but it's kind of closing the barn door after the horse is out ... or would a couple of shorter runs with one of the above oils be enough?

You asked what you should do.
You've got high wear metals.
Easiest thing to do is switch to a better oil. (i.e. Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40, or similar)

edit: you should also consider switching to a M1-301 filter

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

flash7210 wrote:

I'd consider switching to a 5w-40 oil.

Agreed. I would never run 0W-40 on this engine, even in cold climates.

BodhiBenz1987 wrote:

Which brand do you recommend?

I recommend:

1 - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 fully synthetic
https://www.mobil.com/en/mobil-delvac/p ... lvac-1-esp

or

2 - Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 fully synthetic
http://rotella.shell.com/products/t6-fu ... hetic.html

...along with a Mobil M1-301 oil filter (it's larger capacity allows the use of a full 7 quarts, and media has more surface area)
https://mobiloil.com/en/oil-filters/per ... il-filters

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:32 pm

OK, I will try switching. Sorry, didn't mean to sound so flip. Just frsutrated, I'm tired of doing everything wrong even when I tried to do it right and this means my own Jeep has had the wrong oil for 133k miles too. Appreciate the recommendations.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:57 pm

Its OK, it is partly on the manufacturers for typing up the owner's manual without bothering to ask the engineers what they would suggest, AND on the oil makers for having so many products that seem similar but actually aren't. Car makers don't want to make the book "too technical" but by only listing the oil weight and an ancient standard... They caused this. But reasonably the problems wouldn't appear inside of the warranty... So they don't care.

On that note, you do know that the timing belt has a 6 year age limit as well as a 100k mile limit, right? That little tidbit wasn't in the owner's manual again because of the warranty - they didn't want the belt to age out before the 7/70 warranty did, so "oops" it just isn't in the book.

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:20 pm

geordi wrote:

Its OK, it is partly on the manufacturers for typing up the owner's manual without bothering to ask the engineers what they would suggest, AND on the oil makers for having so many products that seem similar but actually aren't. Car makers don't want to make the book "too technical" but by only listing the oil weight and an ancient standard... They caused this. But reasonably the problems wouldn't appear inside of the warranty... So they don't care.

On that note, you do know that the timing belt has a 6 year age limit as well as a 100k mile limit, right? That little tidbit wasn't in the owner's manual again because of the warranty - they didn't want the belt to age out before the 7/70 warranty did, so "oops" it just isn't in the book.

With a much-older car I would have been more inclined to ask around but with a brand-new car (well, it was when we got them) I just wouldn't have thought to seek alternative opinions to the manufacturer. It's too bad they were so careless with these cars. The Mobil 1 0w40 was also what the dealer used and recommended (and they said came in the car) but that's not saying much considering on my first oil change the dealer also filled it with 12 quarts of oil ... that's how much they knew/cared.

Fortunately I had read about the timing belt issues and I had mine done around 94,000. My dad's was changed when he had the head rebuilt, also around 94K.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:21 pm

The Owner's Manual was "written" ca. 2004/5 and the oil recommendation was "adequate" but dated then. On the other hand why would a reader of the manual assume oil technology has been static for the last 13 years and go looking for the oil that manual recommended. Shoot I did not consult a 1965 Ford Mustang manual for what oil to use in a rebuilt 289 back in 1976; I just used the best oil that was "modern" for the time. Same for the 1956 MGA into which I installed an MGB engine way back when.

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:46 pm

papaindigo wrote:

The Owner's Manual was "written" ca. 2004/5 and the oil recommendation was "adequate" but dated then. On the other hand why would a reader of the manual assume oil technology has been static for the last 13 years and go looking for the oil that manual recommended. Shoot I did not consult a 1965 Ford Mustang manual for what oil to use in a rebuilt 289 back in 1976; I just used the best oil that was "modern" for the time. Same for the 1956 MGA into which I installed an MGB engine way back when.

When I started doing oil changes on my car it was 2005 and that's when I consulted the manual. I guess along the way I should have rethought the oil I was using but when the car was new I followed what the manufacturer said because I assumed (perhaps wrongly) it would be correct, and I also did not want to void the warranty. Over the years, with my Jeep, nothing gave me reason to question my maintenance routine as my oil samples always came back great. In hindsight the issues in my dad's Jeep probably should have made me inquire more ... but he also ran it way too long and didn't block the EGR so I didn't necessarily connect the dots. I guess in the future I will make a point to check in on updates/upgrades in fluid choices as a car ages.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:57 pm

BodhiBenz1987 wrote:

geordi wrote:

NOT THE RIGHT OIL.

That is primarily a GAS rated oil, that is the "european car formula" and is only rated CF for diesel which is the absolute minimum rating the CRD should ever have, and certainly not for extended drains. When the CRD was released, the CF standard had already been superseded several times and the current standard at that time was CH. The CF standard dates back to the mid 1990s.
The following are all acceptable options, and can be switched at will based on cost or preference within this list:
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40
Mobil 1 Delvac 1 (Silver bottle) 5W-40
Mobil 1 Delvac ESP (Silver bottle) 5W-40
Mobil 1 Delvac 1300 (black bottle) IS NOT ACCEPTABLE as it is not synthetic.

Shell Rotella T6 (blue bottle) 5W-40
Chevron Delo 400 - IF CH or higher rated and fully synthetic 5W-40 - information on this one is varied.

The oil specified by the manufacturer is not the right oil? I probably shouldn't be surprised given Chrysler's general approach to this car, but I'm not sure why I would assume that. Especially considering I've sent about 20 samples to Blackstone, which is an oil specialist, and never once have they written back that this is not an adequate oil for this usage. I'll switch but it's kind of closing the barn door after the horse is out ... or would a couple of shorter runs with one of the above oils be enough?

Exactly. Its because its Chrysler. They did the same thing with the Ram Ecodiesel. After a bunch of them blew up due to bearing failures they started recommending 5W-40(I think rotella T6 maybe)

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:59 pm

Delo 400 with the latest & highest wear rating of CK
LOOK FOR THE JUG WITH THE RED CAP !!

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Chevron-Delo ... 3=&veh=sem

CRD oil report showing very high wear metals

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