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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Thanks again everyone.

I know I tend to over-analyze the sounds of my rig, and worry that I should be doing all preventative work, well before bad things happen. I'm going to keep my eyes and ears open for any changes, or bad symptoms.

You all rock. :rockon:

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited: GDE Eco Tune, Weeks Kit 1&2, Provent 200, P3 E-Brake Controller, Custom Rock Rails, Suspension & Arms (OME, ARB, Raybestos, Bilsteins, etc.), 11-Bladed Fan, HD-Fan-Clutch, HDS M-001 Thermo, Fan-shroud-mod, Sasquatch Turbo, Tires: BFG AT TA KO2 LT245/70R16 - load D, Carter In-Tank Lift Pump.


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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Hello again everyone,

I believe that my KJ's CRD does in fact have a very slow head-gasket leak, even though the combustion-contamination-in-the-coolant-reservoir test didn't show sign of combustion fumes in the coolant (I did the Blue-fluid-test, and it never turned Green no matter how many times I did it).

Although, I am consistently loosing a small amount of coolant (about a cup every 2-3 weeks), and it isn't showing up anywhere on the ground. The white-vapor-out-the-tailpipe in the mornings is pretty consistent, and the congealed yellow sludge in my Provent is really leaning towards it being a slow head gasket leak. There hasn't been any over-heating issues, so that's good. Hopefully I don't need the head replaced.

I believe it is time to delve deep and fix this. My 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited is my main vehicle, and I plan to have it last a lot longer.

I'm inclined to replace the following, but would prefer to get some expert opinion from you all at the same time:

* ARP Studs (https://www.idparts.com/arp-head-stud-kit-liberty-crd-p-4044.html) already purchased. = ~$310.00

* Head-Gasket (not sure where to buy this separately from, nor the part #) 2-Hole version right? Where is this the best place to purchase it from? = ~$??.??

* Valves x16 (8xIntake: https://www.idparts.com/intake-valve-liberty-crd-p-4280.html / 8xExhaust: https://www.idparts.com/exhaust-valve-liberty-crd-p-4281.html) = ~$280.00
* Valve Springs x16 (https://www.idparts.com/individual-valve-spring-liberty-crd-p-4607.html) = ~$110.00
* Valve Stem Seal Set (https://www.idparts.com/valve-stem-seal-set-16-pieces-liberty-crd-p-3857.html) = ~$30.00
* Exhaust Valve Seat x8 (https://www.idparts.com/exhaust-valve-seat-liberty-crd-p-6072.html) = ~$100.00
* Intake Valve Seat x8 (https://www.idparts.com/intake-valve-seat-liberty-crd-p-6069.html) = ~$140.00


* Exhaust Manifold Gasket (https://www.idparts.com/exhaust-manifold-gasket-liberty-crd-p-3198.html) = ~$20.00
OPTIONAL:* Camshaft for the Intake Valves (https://www.idparts.com/camshaft-for-intake-valves-liberty-crd-p-3253.html) = ~$250.00
OPTIONAL:* Camshaft for the Exhaust Valves (https://www.idparts.com/camshaft-for-exhaust-valves-liberty-crd-p-3395.html) = ~$250.00
OPTIONAL:* Rocker Arm and Lifter set (https://www.idparts.com/rocker-arm-lifter-set-liberty-crd-p-3065.html) = ~$370.00

* Timing Belt kit with Water Pump and gaskets (https://www.idparts.com/timing-belt-kit-liberty-crd-p-2721.html) = ~$400.00
- I'll have to research where to get these Timing tools, and so I'll figure out that process as well, and have to plan around that cost.

Subtotal for the parts (including Optional parts) = ~$2200.00
Subtotal for the parts (excluding Optional parts) = ~$1300.00

... If I have a mechanic do all the labor, it will probably add about another ~$1000.00

What other parts and gaskets will I need to buy new, and what am I missing?

I appreciate any and all feedback!

Thanks.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited: GDE Eco Tune, Weeks Kit 1&2, Provent 200, P3 E-Brake Controller, Custom Rock Rails, Suspension & Arms (OME, ARB, Raybestos, Bilsteins, etc.), 11-Bladed Fan, HD-Fan-Clutch, HDS M-001 Thermo, Fan-shroud-mod, Sasquatch Turbo, Tires: BFG AT TA KO2 LT245/70R16 - load D, Carter In-Tank Lift Pump.


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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:32 pm 
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Skip the springs and valve stem seals - You don't need those, they won't need to be replaced.
The valve seats are all pressed-in, you don't need to replace them (and can't by yourself) unless they are burned / cracked. They shouldn't be. Skip that.

Get the IDparts head gasket install kit, $230 and comes with everything you will need as far as seals. Who cares about a few extra bolts, toss em.
Camshafts should be fine as long as the centers of the lobes aren't chewed.
Rockers and lifters - Might not be the worst to get these, especially if any bearings on the rollers aren't good / have collapsed.
Think about the complete stage 1 and 2 elbow kit / EGR delete. Don't do this job without that.
Replace the studs in the head and exhaust manifold with stainless steel or grade 8 - the factory hardware is unrated crap.
IDparts has a timing tool kit, you do NOT need the factory holder, you just need a counter-hold bar.

Depending on your timeframe, I have a convention in Vegas in about 5 weeks... I could be available if you wanted experienced hands to get you on the road quicker, we can discuss options for you doing the disassembly to save money, and that would allow time for a machine shop to check the head prior to reassembly.

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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:32 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Your list looks much like mine when I was comparing options.

I elected to go with a complete new factory assembled head from IDParts https://www.idparts.com/complete-cylinder-head-vm-liberty-crd-p-3260.html
and the recommended complete head installation kit. https://www.idparts.com/cylinder-head-install-kit-liberty-crd-p-3203.html

This way I had a complete used head from a running engine I could sell on Ebay for $750, and an unused set of new head bolts that another LOST member was able to use for his rebuild.

I bought all the things on the "Customers who purchased this also purchased..." list at the bottom of the above link page.

After which I have a set of OEM camshafts whose lobes are neither chewed or significantly worn, that IF YOU SHOULD NEED THEM, I would part with for less than price of a new single camshaft. They are the OEM type with front spacers (included). The new type are different.
As Geordi says, Make sure if you actually need them, before you buy any. Unless you have failed rocker/follower units, it's unlikely the cams are worn beyond re-use.

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

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CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
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BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
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rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Thanks geordi and GordnadoCRD.

I'm contemplating both directions at the moment (getting the minimal essential parts vs. buying the whole new head with extras). I'm trying to be proactive and prepared for all possibilities. Given that I can't have my rig sitting un-driveable for more than an extended weekend, I want to be prepared. I'm worried that I'll open it up, take a couple hours dismantling the top of the engine, and find out I need a lot more parts than I have available at that time.

Given that this is my daily driver (to get the kids to school & me to work), I need to plan around being fully prepared to do it all at one time, without delays of waiting for parts, after the fact. I know that sometimes you can't prepare for everything, but I am trying to be proactive, while also not spending a ton of money on extra parts I won't need. There's the rub.

Is there a less-invasive way to check under the valve cover for oil-water sludge, or bad lifters/rockers, without having to remove a ton of things and replace a bunch of gaskets? Maybe just replacing one or two gaskets and checking the status of the lifters, rockers, and all the parts under that cover?
What might be the minimal parts to get to do an assessment of that area first?

I am expecting that once I get the valve cover off, I'll be seeing signs of a head-gasket leak (oil-water sludge), and I should just go into cleaning and fixing mode from there.

Do I have to remove the head-bolts at that point?

I wish I had more experience doing this specific job. Sorry about all the questions and my ignorance around this work.

:)

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited: GDE Eco Tune, Weeks Kit 1&2, Provent 200, P3 E-Brake Controller, Custom Rock Rails, Suspension & Arms (OME, ARB, Raybestos, Bilsteins, etc.), 11-Bladed Fan, HD-Fan-Clutch, HDS M-001 Thermo, Fan-shroud-mod, Sasquatch Turbo, Tires: BFG AT TA KO2 LT245/70R16 - load D, Carter In-Tank Lift Pump.


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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:08 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
In that case, however you elect to go with the parts, I believe it to be highly advantageous to have the guidance or direct hands on experience of someone that is intimately familiar with this engine's internals.
There are just too many 'weird' things unique to the VMM CRD.
There are isolated similarities with other engines, even parts that can be exchanged and work fine, but I'm fairly certain even an experienced person doing this engine for the first time would be losing time figuring things out, both coming apart and going together.
Whether you know someone, or choose to hire someone, (Geordi, or other), is your choice but I highly recommend one of those, especially considering the importance of having it done right, the first go.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Some thoughts for you:

You won't be able to see anything informative about the head gasket just by taking the valve cover off, but you will have compromised the timing belt system (all that has to come off to take the cover off) even to inspect the rockers and cams.

If you are having low coolant alarms every few weeks, that is the primary indication that the 2500 psi of combustion pressure is leaching into the 16 psi water jacket and pushing out the water through the overflow. If the overflow section of the bottle (far-right chamber closest to the center of the engine) is *completely filled* while the engine is warm and running, that is also a decent indication. In all cases I am aware of, the "cold engine test" has been conclusive. If there is pressure under the cap after releasing any pressure / vacuum and then idling the cold engine for 1 minute - then you have a confirmed head gasket leak.

If any leak had somehow progressed to the point of coolant / oil mixing... I don't know how the signs would have been missed. This engine doesn't fail the gasket in that way.

On doing the work:

The labor book value for a head gasket job is 24 hours of work. That is for an experienced tech at a dealership, which frequently means the actual work will take longer. I would not expect a novice on this engine (even if you are amazing on other engines) to be able to do this for the first time in anything less than that time, but likely far more. If you want to try tackling this yourself, you may wish to consider the option of renting a car for a week as part of the cost of the job - you likely will need that much time because of life.

Even buying a complete head from IDparts or from Europe, I would still consider the option of having a machine shop check it and STILL replacing all the valves with fresh - I do not believe there is a supply of "new and unused" heads sitting somewhere, these would all seem to be used heads from somewhere. The aluminum is not the problem, it is the valves. They are the only moving part in the head and the only thing I trust for reliability is brand-new packaged valves that I have seen opened and installed. After the report that someone had a valve drop from one of IDparts' heads... I don't know the circumstances of that, but the risk is just too great. Factoring that time in for a machine shop will add a few days possibly, OR if you know the history of your engine you can skip the machine shop and just install the new valves yourself while the head is off.

On scheduling the work:
Renting a car will give you options - If you are confident in being able to do the disassembly (even a portion) and have me or someone else come to do the reassembly for you, we can schedule that out, and give you ideas on how long it will take to get from X to Y to Z... and how much you might save on the labor cost. I can do the entire job start-to-finish in two days, or a reassembly in one long day. Obviously I already have all the tools and techniques to be able to accelerate to that kind of speed, experience has its perks. The first time I did the job it took me about 2 weeks total. There was a lot of reading and checking and rechecking of things.

From a purely cost perspective, renting a car will likely be the cheapest option even if the work takes you 2 weeks... But the risk is how confident you are of your skills once you get deep into it. There isn't really any turning back if you get stuck. If you are able to drive the CRD right now, you are likely not looking at any severe mechanical issues other than the head gasket and valves. Thankfully issues with the rockers and cams are very rare. This is purely a time versus cost conundrum, and I want you to have all the information.

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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:27 pm 
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I agree, it will take you a lot of time, and things will pop up that will throw a wrench in to the job.

A new head is $2k down the drain unless it's cracked. New exhaust valves sure. Resurface and lap in new valves, about $200 (with any luck). But the machine shop takes more time.

Side note: I'll give you $450 shipped for the old head if you decide to sell it and it's not cracked

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat, Ironrock trilink, Integrated air OX rear, OME 2.5, JBA UCA, Moabs245/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,Truetrac front,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new head,rockers, cams,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, Suncoast, welded EGR port & trans drain, muffler delete,
Mech fan, VH & AC delete,tensioner relocated, rock rails


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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:00 pm 
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APC9199 wrote:
... Just follow the guides that have been posted here and take things slow. Research the parts you'll need/want and make sure you have everything before you start then just block off some time and start working! One big tip that helps me tremendously is to buy organizing bins from home depot/lowes etc and use them to label and organize every piece of hardware that comes out of the engine. Nothing feels worse than not remembering where a screw goes, or even worse, having a few extra when you get done!

That is my 2 cents on the matter. Others will probably recommend that you do very little, overall. It is entirely up to you and your level of "OCD". Just remember that the best group of people to ask for help if/when you get into it are right here waiting!


So after dealing with a major financial ding (my wife's vehicle died and had to be dealt with), I had to cancel geordi's plan to come out and help do the Head-Gasket work.

I am going to have to try it myself. I am now consistently loosing coolant, about a cup, every 5-8 days, driving it M-F ~30 miles each day. After sitting overnight, it produces a small amount of white vapor smoke at start up for about 1-2 minutes and then clears up all day, until the next morning), so I'm going to buckle down to the Head-Gasket replacement myself.

As advised, I am planning on getting the Head surface checked, pressure tested, and milled (if need be), cleaned, then having all new Valves put in from a machine shop in town ($60.00 Pressure Test / Inspection, $60.00 milling/resurfacing, $210.00 new valves installed and cleaned-seated). I am going to put in the 2-Hole Head Gasket, ARP Studs, a new Timing Belt Kit from idparts (belt, gaskets, and water pump), and all the recommended other gaskets, crush washer, nuts, and upgraded bolts.

But before I start taking the rig apart, does anyone have any idea where these "guides that have been posted here" are? I'm trying to pull together all the resources to be as prepared as possible, so I can get it all done in a week or two (this is my daily driver - and have to carpool to get the kids to school and me to work while the rig is taken apart).

I have the Service Manual sections printed for our 2.8L engine work, and the Parts Fiche), and I've also copy and pasted lots of posts about people doing similar TB work, but I can't find a full walk-through of the Head Gasket job, from dismantle and repair/replacing old parts, to putting it back together with the correct timing. I've combed through the internet for videos of our 2.8L CRD Head Gasket R&R, and I'm not able to find one specific to the HG. I've found a few people posting their versions of the Timing Belt R&R Videos, which is great, but not deep enough for me to see what it takes to remove the head, the HG, and all the other parts ... and then putting it all back together in time. I using and referencing the LostJeeps KJ CRD Tech tips page http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/Jeep%20KJ%20CRD%20tech%20tips%20from%20LOST%20forum%20posts.pdf.

I'll be photographing and videoing my process to share with anyone else in the future, and I'm making sure I'm prepared, ready, and following great guides before taking apart the engine down to the Head Gasket.

Anyone have a cheat sheet, a walk-through, a video, or anything to follow along for doing our Head-Gasket R&R?

Please feel free to share.

I'm also going to be asking folks in the Facebook Jeep Liberty CRD group too.

Thanks y'all.

Sarma.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited: GDE Eco Tune, Weeks Kit 1&2, Provent 200, P3 E-Brake Controller, Custom Rock Rails, Suspension & Arms (OME, ARB, Raybestos, Bilsteins, etc.), 11-Bladed Fan, HD-Fan-Clutch, HDS M-001 Thermo, Fan-shroud-mod, Sasquatch Turbo, Tires: BFG AT TA KO2 LT245/70R16 - load D, Carter In-Tank Lift Pump.


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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
The first part of disassembly and last part of re-assembly are (IMHO) covered best, by Sir Sam's Youtube videos for timing belt replacement.

Pulling the actual cam housing / valve cover / intake manifold and head off are just a lot more wrenching, greatly helped by keeping things separated, bagged, marked, photographed, etc.

Pulling the head can be done with the exhaust manifold attached. I recommend this as it is easy to break the OEM exhaust studs. Better to take the whole thing together, to the machine shop, and have them replace the studs with grade 8+ hardware.
Having a cherry picker or a buddy available to help, makes pulling it out less back-breaking.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:28 am 
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X2 on what Gordon suggested,
Mark all wiring connections, male & female with tape or tags using a number or lettering system. Cannot stress this enough!
Those connections will grow cold in memory very quickly, and some are the same and will fit the incorrect sensor! :banghead:
Take plenty of pictures for reference before disconnecting anything, that way you can always look back at them for help... :wink:

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/NAPA HDclutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:50 am 
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Thanks GordnadoCRD and WWDiesel! I will make sure to follow Sir Sam's YouTube videos for the Timing Belt R&R. I'll be taking lots of photos and video through each step for tracking of where everything goes and sharing. I'll also be using painters tape to label all plugs and connectors, and compartmental bagging of nuts, bolts, and parts as they are removed.

Good advice about keeping the exhaust manifold attached and sent to the machine shop as one piece. Geordi also recommended upgrading to 8+ steel bolts for the exhaust manifold. I'll make sure the machine shop has the new gaskets too.

I am still waiting for me TB tool kit from idparts to arrive, should be here today. Then I can ensure that the cam tools and pins are used correctly for disassembly and reassembly.

I am wondering about how careful I need to be on removing everything and how tricky it is to ensure that timing stays intact while pulling the parts and covers in order to remove the Exhaust Cover, Gaskets, Head, etc...
Is there some specific method to ensuring that I don't screw up the timing on disassembly? Keeping the Cam-pins in place makes sense, and clearly marking all the sprockets, bolts, covers, etc for realignment...

I just want to make sure I'm not forgetting to do something crucial on disassembly that blows the timing out of whack for resetting on reassembly.

Not sure if this makes sense... Just trying to get my head around this whole process before starting.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited: GDE Eco Tune, Weeks Kit 1&2, Provent 200, P3 E-Brake Controller, Custom Rock Rails, Suspension & Arms (OME, ARB, Raybestos, Bilsteins, etc.), 11-Bladed Fan, HD-Fan-Clutch, HDS M-001 Thermo, Fan-shroud-mod, Sasquatch Turbo, Tires: BFG AT TA KO2 LT245/70R16 - load D, Carter In-Tank Lift Pump.


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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:21 am 
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Place the crank in the "pinned" position, dimple at 3:00 and pin it with the flywheel timing tool before disassembly. (see picture)
This locks (pins) the crankshaft in the correct position for timing when going back together later and prevents any movement along with it places all four pistons at half travel so no matter what you do to the cams, rotate, etc...the valves cannot hit the top of the pistons.
Also, you do NOT want to rotate the crankshaft with the head off the engine as the piston liners could break loose and lose their seal if you try and do so. The head in place and torqued holds them down in place and sealed tight. :roll:

Either reuse your OEM head gasket if it is in good shape or if you replace it, be sure and go back with the exact same thickness head gasket, i.e. one, two, or three hole ID that came off as the thickness is determined and based on piston protrusion out the top of the piston liner when the engine was built at the factory... Very important!

Read and study the FSM if you have not done so as there are some helpful hints in the instructions on R&R the head. :wink:
http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

Image

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/NAPA HDclutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:35 am 
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You don't need to worry about the timing while disassembling - it doesn't matter now and is easy enough to reset later anyway.

As far as rotating the engine while the head is off - it is "possible" that the liners could move, but highly unlikely. They are held down by gravity, tight fitting with o-rings in the bottom of the liner well, and a bit of corrosion. Getting them out requires a special tool b/c they don't cooperate. They also seat fully in their wells so even if they somehow shifted - a block of wood across the top and a mallet would resolve the issue instantly.

You can rotate the crankshaft after removing the valve cover (all valves now closed) and before you remove the head if you are concerned about it. Once the valve cover is removed, the timing components of the engine are no longer connected.


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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:31 pm 
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Section 9 Pg. 195 in the 2.8L COMMON RAIL DIESEL ENGINE Factory Service Manual

Under section titled: "REMOVAL - CYLINDER HEAD"
Quote:
(14) Rotate the engine to 90 degrees ATDC, or the
3 Oclock position at the crankshaft hub (Refer to 9 -
ENGINE/VALVE TIMING - STANDARD PROCEDURE).

and a CAUTION on Pg. 9-196
Quote:
CAUTION: Before removing the cylinder head cover/
intake manifold or timing belt the crankshaft hub
must placed at 90° ATDC or the 3 O’clock position.
Failure to do so could result in valve and/or piston damage during reassembly. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE/
VALVE TIMING - STANDARD PROCEDURE)


but if one decides to totally ignore the FSM, it's your engine.... :ALONE:

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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Thanks WWDiesel and geordi, for the explicit clarification about what to be cautious about with disassembly, and what not to overly stress about. I printed (and laminated) the Engine section of the FSM for our 2.8L KJ CRDs, and will be reviewing that a couple more times before I do the job. I also printed up the CRD Tech tips.

I'll do my best to make sure that the crank is in the 3-O'clock pinned position, with the flywheel timing tool / pin in place, before disassembly.

I'll be putting a 2-Hole Head-Gasket on it, with ARP Studs, and have reviewed and printed the write-up about how to do the ARP install while the block is still in the engine bay.

I'm also putting in new Valves, rockers, and lifters.

Lots to do. :)

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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:11 pm 
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WWdiesel - That warning is a bit over dramatic, don't you think? The whole point of putting the crankshaft at 90ATDC is so that the pistons are all halfway down from the top of the travel, and there is ample time to do that without the head / valves in place and it will affect precisely nothing on the reassembly because there isn't anything there to affect.

Now if someone neglects to pre-set the timing components while the parts are separated and goes to assemble - it only becomes an issue when putting the valve cover on. Until that point, the valves are all closed and the crankshaft can be rotated from here to Cleveland without touching anything. Whether he sets the timing at the beginning or the middle doesn't matter - it only needs to be in time during the reassembly, so if he needs to adjust the crankshaft for any reason during the work, have at it.

When I disassemble an engine and I know I'm removing the valve cover, don't even bother with the timing tools until I'm putting things back together. Every single engine has started up just beautifully.

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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:36 pm 
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geordi wrote:
WWdiesel - That warning is a bit over dramatic, don't you think?

That may be somewhat true for someone who has performed multiple R&R of heads; but for someone who has never done it before and is seeking feedback for doing it for the first time, it certainly pays to heed those factory service manual warnings and instructions and err of the side of caution just to be safe.
Cutting corners can and may have detrimental consequences if you don't have the necessary experience to draw from to make those kind of decisions.

I'm sure the writers of the manual felt the steps were important, otherwise they would not have bothered to include them... :roll:

Again; if a person wants to ignore factory warnings and instructions, that's perfectly ok, it's their engine and they can do as they please.
But if a person asks for advice...is it not far better to follow established factory procedures? :2cents:

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/NAPA HDclutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:06 pm 
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I appreciate all the feedback on all sides. I would prefer to know the importance of the FSM instructions, and why they are outlining procedures a certain way .. AND ... I also appreciate the experienced perspectives about how and where to make the work more efficient, if and when I can.

Thanks to both of you, and I will be using it all.

Sarma

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 Post subject: Re: 150k Miles: time for the HeadGasket and parts?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:23 pm 
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Any recommendation about how to get the Cam Sprocket Bolts off easily? They are seriously tight. I am holding the Camshaft Sprocket Counterhold Tool while attempting to loosen the bolt holding the camshaft sprocket on, and it's not budging. I sprayed penetrating oil on the edge of the bolt head, but I'm not sure if that is helping.

I have an impact wrench, but it's too big to get down in there, and the socket flex extension makes the 17 millimeter socket pop off and flopping around to much to get a clean grab and twist.

I'm trying to be gentle so I don't hurt anything inside the cam shaft valve cover area.

Hopefully I'll slowly get it, but I'd appreciate any advice or recommendations.

Sarma

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