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 Post subject: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:11 pm 
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Hello All,

I purchased a 2005 Liberty CRD with 127k miles on it last Friday after doing research on them for a month or so including reading through he noob guide on here. I knew at some point I would need to replace the fuel filter, intercooler hoses, torque converter, do the ECU/TCU flash, upgrade the fuel pump head and drop an in tank fuel lift pump.

The car was well taken care of from a service standpoint up to 108k miles as far as the service records I have. I am unsure what has happened with the second owner over the last 20k miles but someone did upgrade the fuel pump head to the better version.

After driving it home and around town last Friday night I woke up Saturday morning, got in and it would not start. It seemed to be cranking fine after letting the glow plug light go on and off and would almost start but no go. I watched the videos of how to bleed the air out of the fuel filter and did so but it seemed like the fuel would only dribble out not shoot out like in the videos. Occasionally when it would almost start some white smoke would come out the exhaust. I tried pumping the fuel filter to prime it between each try but still no go.

I eventually had it towed to a Jeep dealer in Golden and they did find there was more air in the lines ( I am not sure on the procedure to bleed the air out of the fuel rail. Also not sure what a fuel rail is). The bled the air and I had them do the 120k mile service. Went to pick it up yesterday and it would not start for me. The tech tried and still would not work. After I left they tried again and it has been starting for them ever since.

There was no more air in the lines last night or this morning. I asked them to just replace the fuel filter as it seems the number one consensus on here is if you don't know when it was done just do it. They are also going to check the glowplugs and I asked them to see if the MAF(?) is caked with soot.

Does any of this sound familiar to anyone and does anyone know a CRD expert indy shop in the Denver/Boulder metro area? The tech at the dealer did not get the fact that there is a vacuum from the tank to the pump. He kept stating the fuel system is pressurized and if there was a leak we would smell fuel. Not giving me the best feeling.

thanks for any help
Chris (super-noob)


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Cheap: Cut out the supply line quick connect at the fuel tank and replace with about 18" of rubber fuel line, two clamps on each side.
Best fix: install a lift pump, in line or in tank will work, but in tank better. If you do the inline, you'll want to eliminate the tank quick connect.

You won't see any leaks because it's pulling air IN, no fuel escapes

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:20 am 
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Location: White River in the Bush South Africa
Definitely an inline fuel pump always help although my Export 2002 2.5 CRD is stock standard and I have never had an issue with air in fuel....Export models did come out with a very good Raycor filter head though.

Try get codes pulled out otherwise...could be a dirty MAP sensor or bad crank or cam sensors.

I presume you do not have the Red LED on the left of cluster....SKIS anti theft light...either flashing at you or staying on permanent? :?

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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:15 pm 
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So they got all the air out and vacuum and pressure are good for the fuel lines. They checked the glow plugs, swapped the fuel filter and flashed the ECM with a fix for a glow plug issue for free. After reading a 7 page post (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64199) on here about two guys who had a similar problem (who also tried replacing their crank and engine coolant temperature sensor) I had them do a leak down test but they couldn't get it to NOT start so I don't think the test was accurate for the issue. Thankfully they didn't charge me for the leak down either. No codes being thrown. This morning the service manager showed up and fired it right up. Waited a half hour and it wouldn't start. I did see another post on here about a mechanic in town who sounds like he knows the CRD inside and out so I'm going to see if I can get it moved and have him take a look. I feel like the its one of more fuel injectors but I don't want to drop $500 to $2000 on a hunch. Getting a new rental today and have an appointment Tuesday with hopefully someone who know how to fix it.


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Dealer got some fancy piece of air pressure equipment for testing the injectors and they came back fine. They tested a bunch of voltages and think the glowplugs are reading low and the starter is right at the low end of the threshold. Their best guess is to replace the glowplugs and the glowplug module but even at "employee cost" its about $1k which seems crazy give the cost for parts online. Gonna see if they can check the cam and crank sensors first.


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:09 pm 
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You're spending a fortune on things that the experts (us) didn't even mention. Trusting the dealership or anyone other than experienced lost members will only bring you financial pain. It's probably air in fuel, and if it won't start after being driven and parked (but still warm), then it's probably the crank sensor

There are a couple of other rare things that cause intermittent starts, but start cheap and easy first. The only failed injectors I've ever seen were hit by a valve. Also, you don't test pressure or vacuum on the fuel lines, you add a lift pump or cut out the supply quick connect. If that doesn't solve the problem you replace the filter head. It's a guarantee that these jeeps eventually draw air in, so you'll have to fix it eventually regardless... :5SHOTS:

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:24 pm 
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Thankfully the only thing i'm into them for is $188 for bleeding the air out of the system and the $1000 in standard maintenance I had them do. All of the other testing has been "free".

The thing that led me down the fuel injector path was this post (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64199) where the guys replaced everything including cam and crank sensors. Second to last post was what sounded like some good info from Oregon Fuel Injection.

That being said all their tests came back negative for it being the injectors. They did say the glow plugs are the original ceramic 7v ones and they are over voltage and possibly shutting off early.

I'm planning on putting the lift pump in next week as well as replacing the crank sensor. Is the crank sensor difficult to replace?


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:02 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
In and of it's self, no.
It is just difficult to get to, and involves removing heat shields that are also difficult to get to from below.
Some, who have better access from below, can reach up past the exhaust down pipe, and can see it better.

Others, myself included, prefer the longer route and easier access from above.
You need to drain about a gallon of coolant or so, to avoid coolant spillage.
You disconnect the coolant fill / overflow reservoir from the engine firewall, and remove the coolant level sensor connector from the bottom of the reservoir. This allows the reservoir to be moved out of the way, up over the engine.
Now you have access to the upper exhaust heat shield, which is held on by 3 bolts.
Then you disconnect the turbo from the exhaust downpipe, and move the exhaust pipe out of the way.
U then have clear and easy access to the heat shield and the crank position sensor.
I am a wide guy with large, less bendy arm bits, and the lower route doesn't work well for me, so this way is longer, but less aggravating for me.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:34 pm 
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cain_hune wrote:
Thankfully the only thing i'm into them for is $188 for bleeding the air out of the system and the $1000 in standard maintenance I had them do. All of the other testing has been "free".
The thing that led me down the fuel injector path was this post (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64199) where the guys replaced everything including cam and crank sensors. Second to last post was what sounded like some good info from Oregon Fuel Injection.
That being said all their tests came back negative for it being the injectors. They did say the glow plugs are the original ceramic 7v ones and they are over voltage and possibly shutting off early.
I'm planning on putting the lift pump in next week as well as replacing the crank sensor. Is the crank sensor difficult to replace?

Good for you on the lift pump, you and your Jeep will love it!

If you still got ceramic GP's, you need to replace them! Ceramic tips have been known to break off, fall into the cylinder and cause damage; you certainly don't want that.

Crankshaft position sensor can be changed quite easily from the bottom if you got some ramps to drive it up on or a good jack that will lift it high enough to get up under vehicle.
Just be sure and use some good jack stands if you use the jack method!
Otherwise, doing it from the top is also doable, just have to remove some things to get at it, like Gordon said. :roll:

Picture shows location:

Image

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Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
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98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Last edited by WWDiesel on Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:32 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Note that the picture is of a nice clean example, and the heat shield has already been removed, and the wiring connector has already been disconnected.

Coming in from the top, I found it easier to deal with the connector if the connector mounting bracket shown is unbolted first. But that's just me, my CRD, and the tools I had available.

X2 on the Ceramic GPs. If one of those tips fractures, and you're lucky enough that it makes it out the exhaust valves without doing damage to the head or the piston tops, It WILL WITHOUT FAIL raise hell with your turbine wheel, and could take the turbo out completely.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:10 am 
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The latest wisdom if you live where it's cold is to install etecno 5v glow plugs with the factory 7v programming, as the ceramics worked much better, unless they destroy the engine...

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Thanks all for the advice so far!

So it looks like wires to glow plugs 3 and 4 were bad and damaged the plugs but as everyone said I certainly needed to get those old ceramic ones out of there. I also told them to replace the cam shaft sensor and low and behold it had failed as well. As the stealership was charging too much I did not want to have them do the crank shaft sensor despite knowing it needs to get done. Car turns on with more regularity now but dies when moving it.

So tow truck arrived to get it out of their hands...

Already done:

Bled air out of fuel system

Replaced:
Fuel Filter
Cam sensor
Glow plugs
Glow plug wires
Glow plug module

Tested:
Injectors
Many many electrical components
Fuel pressure

On the list for next week:

Definite:
Lift pump
Crank shaft sensor replace
MAP sensor replace

Possible:
MAF sensor replace
Engine coolant sensor replace


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:33 pm 
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Sounds like air in fuel

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:26 pm 
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The Sasquatch order has been placed. Of utmost importance the fuel lift and the crank shaft sensor. For good measure I bought the 3 pack with the engine coolant and MAP sensors. Replacing the intercooler hoses as well and it turns out it had a broken Thermostat so that's on order as well. Hopefully my next Monday or Tuesday she'll be running well again.


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:55 pm 
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cain_hune wrote:
The Sasquatch order has been placed. Of utmost importance the fuel lift and the crank shaft sensor. For good measure I bought the 3 pack with the engine coolant and MAP sensors. Replacing the intercooler hoses as well and it turns out it had a broken Thermostat so that's on order as well. Hopefully my next Monday or Tuesday she'll be running well again.

Best of luck, certainly sounds like you on the right track! :D
Let us know if you need any guidance... :wink:

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Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:14 am 
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So as it turns out the dealership did not check the MAP sensor, despite me asking them to, as it was completely caked up with soot. After I moved it from the dealership to Echo Park Auto the new mechanic couldn't get it to act up. Got the MAP sensor replaced as well as crank shaft sensor, intercooler hoses, engine coolant sensor, broken thermostat and installed the fuel lift. Likely RCA...MAP sensor, air in the fuel lines and bad CAM shaft sensor. Glow plugs on the fritz didn't help. She seems to be running great again thanks for all the advice!


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 Post subject: Re: First CRD Woes - Intermittent Starting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:42 am 
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cain_hune wrote:
So as it turns out the dealership did not check the MAP sensor, despite me asking them to, as it was completely caked up with soot. After I moved it from the dealership to Echo Park Auto the new mechanic couldn't get it to act up. Got the MAP sensor replaced as well as crank shaft sensor, intercooler hoses, engine coolant sensor, broken thermostat and installed the fuel lift. Likely RCA...MAP sensor, air in the fuel lines and bad CAM shaft sensor. Glow plugs on the fritz didn't help. She seems to be running great again thanks for all the advice!

That's GOOD news!
You did all the right things... :BINGO:

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Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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