Wife and I like this one:
Coachmen Freedom Express



Will my stock engine, transmission and torque converter be able to handle this adequately?
Will I be cussing on the first long hill I hit or sweating over transmission temps?
I currently have just a dumb light btw.

Thank you

I have a Jayco 24T ultralight. Scaled at 5000lbs when towing. Jeep was fine towing it with WDH.

I never had any overheating issues. Stock torque converter and GDE eco tune. Only ever towed it on the island with the Jeep. Not going to break any speed records but had adequate power.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited

Provent @ 43,000 km
SEGR in progress
SAMCO Sport hoses @ 48500 km
Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac LT225/75R16

That's a lot of weight for the little Jeep to tow!
With stock TC you will really be pushing it to the limit on hills.
Once you add all your camping and personal stuff in the trailer and Jeep, you will be at or above max limits.

If you are going to do this, you certainly need to add an additional large transmission cooler.
And, you may end up having to go to a heavy duty aftermarket torque converter to be able tow that kind of weight and not slip and shudder in lock up?

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount
98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve

Me or WolverineFW?

You, but it probably applies to both?

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount
98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve

Wolverine's is at 4465 lbs empty, mine (should I get it) 3850 lbs.

Thanks for the input guys. I am going to need a few more votes though.
My wife will want a new truck if the Liberty can't handle it.

I have not towed a travel trailer with my jeep but I did tow a Mastercraft X1 Wakeboat that was probably in the 4500 lb range and the Jeep was pretty much floored trying to maintain 65mph on some mild hills in New Hampshire. This was when my jeep was stock with a GDE hot tune. Now take that relatively aerodynamic boat and turn it into a box and pull that through the air at 65mph. Yeah. I am not cool with climbing grades at 40 mph when people are flying by at 70-80mph.

I do have a 4100 lb dry travel trailer myself and am planing on hooking it up to the jeep at some point to try out. My trailer is a 5500 lb GVWR. With full propane tanks and batteries I think I will have to pack light to keep it under 5k lbs and probably wont be able to fill the water tank. I dry camp 90% of the time so having the tank full is kinda nice.

Here is my current setup:



I am running an Equalizer 1000lb/10000lb weight distribution hitch. My F150 pulls it like its not there but it also weighs 6140 lbs empty, which is more than my trailers GVWR, and has a 157" wheelbase. This is where I would be worried about the jeep. Short wheel base and lighter weight. My trailer is about a foot longer than the one your are looking at.

The other issue is that the travel trailers like to tow at around 13% tongue weight generally or they get tail happy. I pack most of my gear in the front of my trailer and its rock steady. 13% on a 4500-5000 lb trailer is well beyond the Jeeps rated tongue weight of 500 lbs.

You also need to be careful of the MFG's claims on weight. The UVW of the trailer is 3850 lbs, but that is with not factory options or anything. If it comes with A/C ,generally that is considered an option. Propane tanks and batteries are usually dealer installed. Etc. There is a good chance that trailer is gunna be well over 4000 lbs sitting at the dealer lot when you go to pick it up and havent put any gear in it yet.

Another trailer to look at, which is on the pricier side, is the Winnebago Micro Minnies. They are about the same length but the big difference there is they are only 7' wide instead of the normal 8'/96". This means less drag going down the road and its easier to see around with a smaller vehicle like the Jeep. My F150 has power extending tow mirrors from the F250/F350 trucks and even those have trouble getting far enough out to really see behind the 8' trailer.

Any way you slice it, that trailer you like is going to be pushing or exceeding the limits of the Jeep. I would almost guarantee you will be over tongue weight and possibly over max trailer weight once you are loaded up. And the weight of travel trailers is only one part of the equation. Aerodynamic drag is huge. Towing a travel trailer is different than towing a flat bed trailer with a corvette on i even if they weight the same simply because of how much more drag it puts on the tow vehicle. Aside from getting a narrower trailer or something tear drop shaped, there is not much you can do about that. Stability should also be a concern. The jeep has a very short wheel base at 104". The shorter your wheelbase the less stable it will be when forces are applied to the trailer. The trailer is basically an 8 foot tall by 19 foot long sail that will catch cross winds or even just the bow wake of a passing 18 wheeler. Even guys with F150s get tossed around by passing trucks sometimes. If you do decide to try this with the Jeep make sure you invest in a high end weight distributing hitch. Equalizer is usually considered one of the best and I have heard a lot of people love the Blue Ox. If you were in a bigger heavier tow vehicle you might skimp here but I wouldnt with the Jeep.

If you are looking to move to a truck so that you can tow a bigger trailer I highly suggest you check out a 2015+ F150 with the 2.7 Ecoboost. The ecoboost motors drive like a diesel with an abundance of low end torque but have the top end power of a V8. They also pick up power like a diesel when tuned. The stock 2.7 will tow circles around a Hot tuned Jeep from a power perspective and it will just be a much more stable platform for a trailer that size. Unloaded guys are seeing 24-25 mpg highway with them. My 3.5 Ecoboost will pull my trailer at 70mph in 6th gear. On 7% grades I never see more than 3250 rpm and maintain 70mph.

Oh, one last thing. I highly suggest you get GDE's towing trans tune. These jeeps have the worst transmission tuning and I am pretty sure they will not downshift from 5th to 4th. They go straight to 3rd. having the Jeep hold 4th gear to 70mph will be key towing, because I dont think the Jeep will be able to hold 5th gear with that much aerodynamic drag unless you are in perfect conditions(no head wind, etc). I would imagine it would be doing a lot of gear hunting if you have the stock or GDE's eco trans tune. Even my F150 will start to have trouble if i am towing at 70mph and start running into a head wind and that thing is making probably 500 ft-lbs at 2000 rpm. WAY more than the jeep.

_________________
2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs

I will see what this weight includes.


Not enough headroom for me. Did look at these though.


The trailer above is extra tall inside too! It may ride low though.


I did buy a brake controller. I will install it in a few days and see if the dealers will let me pull around a few trailers.


It surprises me that this little V6 could haul better than our diesels.
I like the aluminum bed too.

Thank you

Well....I cannot disagree with what you said for the most part. Your trailer is very similar to mine.

I did not think the Jeep was that underpowered towing the trailer. WDH set up was key though....there was a sweet spot. I would really notice if it was wrong as it wanted to wag the dog sometimes.

Have I towed my trailer with my Jeep.....yes. Is it my preferred tow vehicle...no.

I have a 2005 F350 crew cab. Rock solid towing it with no WDH. 5.4L really needs to be wound up to generate power in hills

My favorite tow vehicle is our 2010 VW Touareg TDI. Very stable and you can hardly tell the trailer is there. 6spd transmission can be put in manual mode. I can pass people with the trailer up a 5% grade and accelerate.

Squeeto.....I like your idea of test driving a couple. Put your brake controller in and test it out.

On the Jeep, you absolutely need mirror extensions. I went 5km without them when I first got my trailer.....couldn't see squat.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited

Provent @ 43,000 km
SEGR in progress
SAMCO Sport hoses @ 48500 km
Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac LT225/75R16

I towed a car trailer with car total weight 5,000 with electric brakes 1800 miles from Florida to Colorado with my Liberty (see mods in sig). I wouldn't do it again.

_________________
JBA 4" lift, IRO Tri-link w/ wwdiesel bracket, JBA sliders, 235/85-16 Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs, Mercedes Benz forged ultralight wheels, Weeks stage 1 and 2, Weeks lift pump and harness, Weeks battery tray and AGM battery, GDE tune, Suncoast TC, updated front pump, HDS 001 T-stat, ARP studs, Front and rear Detroit/Eaton Truetrac LSD.

The wife says that you guys are amazing. Knowledgeable, helpful, kind. She says that you put in a lot of effort for your good advice.
And to Thank you

I towed another CRD on a dolly from Baltimore to Jacksonville. About 5000 lbs.
Mostly flat highway on I-95.
Other than running hot on a hot June afternoon, it did good.
Had to keep my speed below 65 mph and the AC off.
Occasional shudder on some hills.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired

We listened to you, talked and are now looking at this trailer:



It is lighter, narrower, lower and more aerodynamic.
What do you think.

But, need to find one now

Best thing might be to check one on a dealer lot. They have a sticker on the door that says the unloaded weight of that vehicle from the factory, so that WOULD include options. But again, the propane tanks and batteries are likely dealer installed so those will not be included. If you have twin 40 lb tanks and two batteries I bet you are looking at 150+ lbs.



I agree. My wife and I looked at the Micro Minnie and just felt cramped. We have two dogs and a 10 month old son. I looks like they did release a Bunkhouse layout this year which was our biggest complaint at the time.



Mine sits very low too. I have had a lot of tense moments trying to find camp sites down in Moab since clearance is so low. Thats one thing I wish I had paid more attention too. I was thinking I could just do an axle flip and put the leafs on top of the axles to get a little more clearance. When I went to look at the trailer(it was used) it was a trailing arm axle. Well Dexter Axle makes lift brackets for their trailing arm axles but come to find out this trailer uses some kinda of custom plate that both axles are welded to and bolted to the side of the trailer frame. Its basically impossible to lift without cutting and welding something.



Good. If you set the brake gain right it will feel like the trailer isnt there. It will do all of its own braking.



Absolutely. Gasoline tech has jumped by leaps and bounds in the last 6-7 years. The new turbo gas motors with direct injection are making as much or more torque at low RPM's than a diesel and far more at high RPM. They dont crap out after 3k rpm like most small diesels. Fords stock 2.7 would make about the same torque as our jeeps do tuned at 2000 rpm but with a tune the 2.7 will be doing better. The difference is that the jeeps torque curve peaks at 2000 rpm and then starts to drop while the Ford 2.7 is still building steam. By 3000 RPM's the 2.7 is making substantially more power. You start climbing a big grade and the Jeep will be spinning away at 3500+ rpms climbing a hill barely making 195hp, the 2.7 will be at 3000 RPM making 230+ hp. Thats almost 20% more at a lower RPM.

Towing is about HP, not torque. Torque + RPM make HP so you can use a lot of torque at low RPM or a little torque at high RPM to make the same power. Either way the force put to the ground through the tire is the same at the same level of HP.

Lets say you have two 200 hp motors, one makes 200hp at 2000 RPM and the other makes 200 hp at 10000 rpms.

200 hp at 2000 rpm = 525 ft-lbs

200 hp at 10000 rpm = 105 ft-lbs

105 ft-lbs Sounds terrible, but remember, the 10000 RPM motor has to spin 5x faster so it needs 5x the gear reduction.

lets say the 2000 RPM motor is running at 65mph with a 1:1 final gear ratio(axle + trans, keep it simple). That means for the 10000 rpm motor to be running at the same 65mph as the 2000 RPM motor, it would need a 5:1 total gear reduction(10000rpm/2000 rpm=5).

So you have 525 ft-lbs with a 1:1 ratio: 525*1 = 525 tq to the wheel

You have a 105 ft-lbs with a 5:1 ratio: 105*5 = 525 tq to the wheel.

So either way, you can tow the same trailer at the same speed as long as hp is the same. The advantage diesel USED to have was they made more HP at lower RPM via lots of torque. Even 10 years ago gasoline V8's couldnt match them in this department. This has all changed and the difference is that the new gasoline turbo motors make that low end torque of a diesel but carry it out well beyond where a diesel does. So generally, by probably 2500 rpm or even before that an ecoboost will outperform a similarly sized diesel. Since its guarenteed your going to need to downshift at some point to climb a hill, the ecoboost will do it at lower RPM and with far more power in reserve.

_________________
2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs

Squeeto, are you over 6.4 feet tall? Winnebago micro Minnie has 6.4 ft headroom inside. My best friend has one, and although I'm only 5.11, let's say 6 ft with shoes, it seems much taller than 6.4... The reason I would suggest winnebago is that they have best reviews and warranty service, I'm sure you know there are no lemon laws for trailers or rvs, so what you get is what you'll have... Some warranty work can also take months, and you can't do anything about it.

Unless the dealer you get the trailer from is super nice, I doubt they'll let you try one, even if only on their property. I am not sure how driving on the property would help, I moved with the EcoDiesel ram I have a friend's 10k trailer with a bobcat on it (may be even a tad more, as he tows that with a 3500 Cummins) and it didn't seem 10k lbs heavy, but that was on the backyard of a friend's house, I can guarantee that driving with 10k behind would be a different story. The problem with travel trailers is more the size than the weight, size causes the drag.

My common sense tells me to recommend a maximum 3-3.5k lbs trailer (fully loaded) and also with the lowest profile you can have, for the crd. You should be willing to compromise also if you want to really tow with the crd. If you need something bigger, I would recommend getting a bigger vehicle, like a 1500 class or bigger (stay away of chevy/GMC gasoline with cylinder deactivation, they develop valve issues - check online for details).

Regarding towing with gasoline engines, of course its possible, and similar engine displacements will always favor gasoline in towing acceleration and power, but you'd need to be willing to "pay to play" - no political reference, lol. There is roughly a 50% better fuel economy on diesels vs gasoline (similar displacement engines), so it's worth a diesel only if you drive a lot, to recover the extra premium you pay for having a diesel. I know mass-hole will go above and beyond to recommend the ecoboost, and I'm not saying it's not worth getting one, I just want to highlight that not everyone gets a truck to drag race with a trailer uphill with 2mpg. There is a reason all big trucks come with diesels.

If I'd have to guess, I'd say you'd be best (comfort, safety, ease of handling) with a 2500 Cummins, you can tow a bigger, taller trailer you seem to prefer without worrying at all regarding brakes, acceleration, wind, etc, all these with roughly 10-15 mpg. This though would be north of 60k if you buy them new, and that's not peanuts, especially for most of us here in the forum.

Personally, I wouldn't tow with the crd for long distance anything bigger than this:

https://goo.gl/images/RbnWyQ

Good luck in whatever you choose!

_________________
2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

The Winnebago Micro Minnie was the first trailer that I took my wife to see.
Awesome construction. Even the plywood under the bed was like marine quality wood.

The ceiling height was fine but my head hit the knobs on the aircon. One midnight hit to the head and I would want to sell it.
We checked if the unit could be put above the bed (where I don't walk) but nope.

99.5% of the time the Liberty will be puttering around town sans trailer. Great turn radius, good economy, just like a little tank for safety and easy to work on. Mine has been very reliable too. I don't want to sell it and it is just broken in.

Buying another vehicle and then trailer for just weekend warriors is really a shame. I can think of others ways to use the money.

I appreciate all the advice and I really do like the Ford 150 but for now I really want to make something work with the Jeep.

I would be happy with an apex style trailer like Aliner or Chalet but we have something similar to that now and my wife wants to just back in to a campsite and have no setup. It doesn't help me when every salesman we talk to says that our Jeep will have no trouble pulling their trailer.

I did some checking and there is one close dealer and another mainland (ferry ride) dealer who have the Geo Pro (2nd choice above) units on order. We will go see them and make a decision.

I can always sell it or buy a bigger tow vehicle then.

The Geo Pro is certainly lighter (UVW) than the Coachman unit and may be easier on the Jeep when towing.
Weight is everything when pulling up long hills and when stopping!

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount
98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve

I cheerfully assume whatever he gets will have trailer brakes fitted but I've not looked at trailer specs. The heaviest load I've dealt with was from Tempe, Az to Tallahassee with a fully loaded CRD (2 people with college stuff packed the ceiling behind the front seats), kayak on top, pulling a fully loaded 5X8 Uhaul (say 2000+ lbs). We ran with overdrive on the whole way mostly at 62-65 or occasionally 70mph. No problem with braking including one rather scary slowdown in San Antonio. CRD had no problem with that load including modest hills on I-10 although we quickly learned to "run" at the hills a bit to prevent down shifting. MPG was ca. 22. Oddly a much tougher pull and much worse mpg (18ish) was a run to Oriental, NC pulling a buddies flat bed trailer with a grated ramp in the up position. Felt like I was dragging a boat anchor down the road. Only thing I could figure is that grated ramp was acting as a sea anchor, so to speak. So bad I even jacked the trailer up before we left to make sure the wheels would spin easily.

_________________
Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

I've been towing and camping with my 19-foot R-Vision Trail-Lite Bantam (Hybrid travel trailer) for about 5 or so years now. I know it is actually kind of wide and big for my little rig, but the engine can take it no problem. I just don't take it on really long windy roads or drive fast with it more than 4-5 times a year.

Pretty much like this one: https://www.rvusa.com/rvs-for-sale/2008/r-vision-trail-lite-c19-travel-trailer-used-indianapolis-indiana-46203-2185041

I could use some Air-Lift-Bags in back to support my OME heavy springs, when it's all loaded up, but I down't tow this beast around every day.

My little KJ CRD does tow it easily, and I've also added lots of things to make it better.

Feel free to peruse my Album: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151564526516208.1073741825.508521207&type=1&l=02cf849fdf

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited: GDE Eco Tune, Weeks Kit 1&2, Provent 200, P3 E-Brake Controller, Custom Rock Rails, Suspension & Arms (OME, ARB, Raybestos, Bilsteins, etc.), 11-Bladed Fan, HD-Fan-Clutch, HDS M-001 Thermo, Fan-shroud-mod, Sasquatch Turbo, Tires: BFG AT TA KO2 LT245/70R16 - load D, Carter In-Tank Lift Pump.

I like the latches that you put on your fan shroud.

_______________

Anyway, I am not sure how long these trailers will take to get to my island but we are 90% sure that we will pick one up. I will keep you posted.