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Question about the TCM as well as codes P605 & P700-SOLVED?
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Author:  kissfan79 [ Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Question about the TCM as well as codes P605 & P700-SOLVED?
Hey guys....I have recently had an issue with my CRD transmission (Seems to be in a transmission limp mode. It will start and drive fine except that it seems to be only in 3rd gear. It doesn't ever upshift and there is no converter lockup). I am getting codes P0605 and P0700. I did some trouble shooting by checking the battery voltage (hence my recent post on a battery for the CRD) and unhooking the negative battery post to try and reset it to no avail. I had it scanned by a local shop that has worked on it and they said it was an issue with the TCM and that it had to go to the dealership. Took it to the dealership and they said the TCM is indeed dead and it needs a new one. I asked her if there was the possibility of buying a used one to put in and program it. She said no that the TCM could not be replaced with a used one. Is there any truth to that as I have seen used ones for sale. If any of this story looks familiar....I did have a post up on one of the Facebook CRD sites looking for advice and information. As always.....thanks in advance for any information and advice.

Jim
Author:  kissfan79 [ Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
The dealership wanted $864 out the door to order a new TCM (it's on back order), program, and install. That cost includes the $106 diagnostic fee. The TCM itself is $559.30. I did find one on moparpartsonline for $327+core. Somehow I don't think the dealer would be too keen on me bringing in a TCM for them to install and program.
Author:  papaindigo [ Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
I don't know what P0605 is but P0700 is a generic transmission code and all it's telling you is that there is a stored transmission fault code. Dealers or anyone else with the appropriate scan tool can read transmission codes, distinct from ECU codes, and if the dealer ran a scan they should have told you what codes were pulled. Assuming that the TCM is in fact dead, ???, I'd shot GDE an email and ask if a used one can be programmed to your vehicle, I suspect the answer is yes and the dealer either doesn't want to do it or doesn't know how.
Author:  flash7210 [ Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
See this:
https://m.ebay.com/itm/P56029053AE-DODGE-CHRYSLER-OEM-TRANSMISSION-CONTROL-MODULE-UNIT-TCM-TCU/302454359239?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20171010182013%26meid%3D6126d6e61313475784b42743b4e608ef%26pid%3D100890%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D401489296492%26itm%3D302454359239&_trksid=p2056116.c100890.m2460

It may not be for a CRD but it will work. No programming necessary.
I’m currently using one.

If you buy it, install it, and the transmission starts shifting again, then you will know that the TCM was the problem.
If the shifting isn’t fixed, then you will know the problem is elsewhere.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
A good transmission shop should be able to test and diagnose a transmission problem and advise you as to the best course of action.
I would certainly get a second opinion! :roll:

TCM's are plug and play and require no addition programming from one vehicle to another like the ECM's provided they have the same transmission.
Some on this forum have installed a used TCM out of a Dodge truck with the same transmission with good reports. It does change the shift points somewhat.
Contacting a custom TCM tuner is only necessary if you want a custom tune for you TCM and you want to spend the money... :roll:
Author:  Jay ne Ohio [ Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
I have taken a TCM from one CRD and put it in another CRD. No programming required to do this.

I also have the same problem with one of my CRD's. I tried swapping TCM's and that did not help. I swapped speed sensors. That did not help. I then installed another transmission from a junk yard. That did not help.

I then took it to a transmission shop. They could not find the problem. I took it to another transmission shop. Their diagnosis: "Trans shift solenoid". Said that it was sending wrong signals. They said they could fix for $700. I ordered a reman for $145 from Summit racing in October 2017. I still have not received it. I just cancelled my order. Now the price has increased from $145 to $175 and the website says that it would ship on Monday if I ordered today.... I don't believe them.

It's weird that I had the same symptoms with both transmissions. I suspected there is a wiring issue with mine. But both transmission shops say that the wiring checked out fine. The second shop is very confident that the trans shift solenoid will fix it. My local autozone has one in stock for $207, but I was hoping to save $50 with the Summit one.
Author:  flash7210 [ Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
Jay,

That’s some good info.
It shows that the problem is not the TCM.
The problem could be a bad ground somewhere. There is a ground connection in the corner near the TCM.
If it’s an 05 CRD, the problem could also be a bad BCM, on the frame rail below the battery.

When the transmission was replaced, was your old valve body reused?
If not, then the problem is likely not the solenoid pack.
The shift solenoid is a solenoid pack and there are two different versions.
Make sure you get the correct one.

Also make sure that the harness connection at the transmission is locked down and tight.
Author:  Jay ne Ohio [ Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
Flash,
It is a 2005 CRD.

I did the trans swap myself. I did NOT re-use the old valve body. Junk yard said the transmission came out of a 1/2 ton Ram with 14,000 miles on it (I forget the year). Very clean looking unit, so I don't doubt the mileage.

I'll look at the grounds. I'll have to try a BCM swap to see if it changes anything.

I was not aware of two different versions of the solenoid pack. How do you tell the difference? Here is the one that I ordered and canceled: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/RNB-609-040

Thanks!
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
According to Summit's and Dorman's application lookup for this part, RNB-609-040, it is the correct one for a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD. :wink:
Author:  Billybob [ Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
flash7210 wrote:
Jay,

That’s some good info.
It shows that the problem is not the TCM.
The problem could be a bad ground somewhere. There is a ground connection in the corner near the TCM.
If it’s an 05 CRD, the problem could also be a bad BCM, on the frame rail below the battery.

When the transmission was replaced, was your old valve body reused?
If not, then the problem is likely not the solenoid pack.
The shift solenoid is a solenoid pack and there are two different versions.
Make sure you get the correct one.

Also make sure that the harness connection at the transmission is locked down and tight.


Flash I do not know the 2005 CRD or any automatic CRDS and I do not understand you stating that the BCM is on the frame rail below the battery? Are you not referring to the Front Control Module, FCM, which sits in that position?
The BCM normally sits on the rear of the Junction block ie. fuse panel inside the cabin and I do not think that that it has too much to do with the auto transmission but I will do some reading up about this before swearing to this! FCM is basically a gateway for all the communication busses and could cause problems being exposed to the element as it is.....2006 CRD this FCM was moved to the top of the Junction Block I believe. :?
Author:  flash7210 [ Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
FCM, BCM, GCM, whatever, they are all the same.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
Jay ne Ohio wrote:
Also, is there any guide explaining rocker arm failure / worn rocker arms in more detail (I thought this only happened with bad timing / belts)? I want to do what I can to prevent that possibility. Thank you.

There are 3 solenoid packs that fit the 545RFE. They are identified by the color of the loom connector that comes out of the case on the left side. There is Black, Grey, and White. As far as I know, only the white ones work correctly with the Liberty. My temporary trans is from 2010 Ram 1500 w/ 5.7Hemi. It came with a white connector, and works. I thought the 2010 would have the updated front pump assembly, but it apparently does not. It does work sufficiently to get by until I can get the original trans rebuilt and new front pump installed, and trans swapped again.
Author:  kissfan79 [ Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
Thanks for all the replies guys. My CRD is currently still at the dealership. I'll be picking it up tomorrow morning. On the Facebook site....one of the comments was to add some ATF+4 to it to ensure the fluid is truly full (it's just short of the full line now but with the whole short dipstick thing.....). The reason being is that when shifting from reverse into drive...it shifts into drive really hard suggesting a lack of pressure from the fluid. I'll try that as I already have some here at the house. If that doesn't help...I'll order that TCM off e-bay and swap it out. In the mean time while waiting for it...I'll check the grounds near the TCM. Once again.....not sure how many here are over on the facebook CRD page (hard to match names with nicknames) but here is a copy of the text from my original post detailing my issues:

Hey guys....I just got the P0605 and P0700 codes on my CRD. I was in Florida for 2 weeks so it did sit for 2 weeks without being driven. No issues (other than a code for EGR insufficient flow and an underboost code) until this point. I checked the battery voltage after sitting over night. It was 12.34 and when I turned the key to the on position it dropped to about 11.84 and was slowly rising. The battery is a Sears Die Hard Platinum that is about 4.5 to 5 years old. After starting the charging volts were about 14.3. It starts fine and drives....it's just in 3rd (I think) gear. Imagine starting a manual vehicle off in 2nd or 3rd gear....thats how it acts. At 45mph I'm at about 2100 rpm. Is there a chance that the voltage in the battery has dropped just enough to cause the TCM to act wonky (I know these vehicles act funny when the voltage drops a tad) or am I more than likely looking at an actual TCM problem? I would hate to spend a chunk of money on a new battery if that's not the problem? I did disconnect the battery twice trying to reset the TCM and to clear the codes. Any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

The battery has indeed been swapped out with a new one already so that wasn't an issue.
Author:  geordi [ Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
Hey Jim - Yeah a lot of us are here as well as there. You probably already know who I am, but I'm the one who said start with more fluid. If your stick is showing just below full, then it is almost definitely low, and probably 2 quarts will be a good start.

Looking on LKQ, there is a yard about 12 miles (ish) from you. Their online list shows at least 3 possible 2005 Liberties, I didn't look for trucks but they probably have a bunch of those too. It will be VERY worth your time to go look, I bought a TCM off an LKQ yard for $40.

https://www.lkqpickyourpart.com/locations/LKQ_Pick_Your_Part_-_Raleigh-168/

If that one doesn't work, they show another one in Durham too.
Author:  kissfan79 [ Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
Hey Jim....yes I knew it was you. I got it back this morning and I added 2 qts of ATF+4 and there was no change. As far as a TCM swap...do you think one would work better than another in regards to one from an 05 gasser vs the one flash recommended on e-bay? Any advice or pitfalls to avoid in regards to removing the TCM? I've never messed with it before. Following a suggestion in the Facebook comments....I can indeed start off in D1 or D2 and it starts off better and it does shift again into 3rd when I put it in D once up to speed.

Thanks, Jim
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
I don’t know all the varieties of Chrysler TCMs out there.
What’s important is that you get a TCM for a 545rfe transmission.
The eBay one I listed above came out of a Dodge Ram 1500 with a 5.7 gasser engine.
I use it. It works. But the shifting is slightly different.

Some Chrysler vehicles use a PCM where the ECM and TCM are combined into one module. Those clearly won’t work.
Author:  geordi [ Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
I answered on FB, but for anyone else looking here - the gasser KJ uses the same transmission and TCM setup as the CRD. If you find one in a yard with the TCM in the same spot as ours, it will slot right in to the CRD and work. The gotcha is you do NOT want to use the bolt to push the connector down into the TCM - it has a nasty habit of starting the socket spinning, making removal very difficult.
Author:  kissfan79 [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
Flash.....I ended up ordering that Ram 1500 TCM...thanks. Once I get it installed I'll report back.
Author:  kissfan79 [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
Well....it turns out there is another code in there in addition to the P0605 and P0700. I was looking over the receipt from the first shop I took it too who told me it needed to go to the dealership for the TCM issue and they had a code listed that they pulled. It said it was 1864. It didn't have a "P" listed in front of it...just the number. The only information I can find on this code was from carcodes.com. For the Jeep...it said:
Torque Converter Clutch Circuit
PSA OBD-II Trouble Code Description for P1864 Jeep
Transmission transfer case contact plate power short circuit to battery

Is anyone familiar with this code? I did a quick search on here and it didn't yield any results. I will say when I started it up just a while ago there was a very distinct buzzing sound that was coming from under the vehicle that sounds as though it's coming from the transmission area. I heard it the other day but it stopped and just now popped up again. Any ideas on what would cause a buzzing sound? The Ram 1500 TCM is on the way so I'll wait to install that but it looks like it may be off to a transmission shop soon.

Thanks, Jim
Author:  geordi [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about the TCM as well as codes 605 and 700
Dunno on the code, but the noise... Maybe the pump? I don't know if it can make noise or is electric or mechanically driven, this is a total guess. I've pulled a couple transmissions, but what happens inside them is largely magic to me, I replace the entire unit if I need to do anything special with it.
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