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Oil Analysis Results
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=87976		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  craws010 [ Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Oil Analysis Results
Hi All,
I received the results of my first Blackstone oil analysis for my Khaki CRD. The level of Iron in the sample is obviously a reason for concern and I understand that there is not likely a way to identify the root cause without some disassembly. I don't have much history on the Jeep other than a few receipts that the PO gave me for recent timing belt, glow plug, cooling system, and A/C services. It was completely stock when I bought it from what I can tell other than the Samco hoses. The PO left a full bottle of M1 0w40 in the cargo area, so I can only assume that is what he was using. I have been running Rotella T6 5w40 since I have owned it.
I have been driving it for about 9 months now without any issues or unusual noises from the engine. I suspect that the rockers/lifters are original at almost 184K now. I did the Weeks Stage 1 and 2 EGR delete at 180K, so she has been running EGR all that time unless the PO had a GDE tune on it at some point. I bought the Jeep with a bad ECU, so I can't be sure. The Jeep is running the GDE Hot Tune now.
I am hoping that the source of the high Iron level is limited to the valve train. My plan would be to replace the head gasket and install ARP studs at the same time if I determine that the rockers need replacement.

Has anyone experienced high levels of Iron and determined that it was due to rocker/lifter/cam wear?
Am I correct in my assumption that the cam is also cast iron on this engine? Maybe worn lifters are also wearing into cam??

Image
Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil Analysis Results
One oil analysis is hard to go from.
Need several to identify any trends.

Yes, its likely that you have some worn rockers. But you would notice valve train noises and reduced power if it was really bad.
Author:  rancherman [ Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil Analysis Results
I agree w/Flash; If you get similar results on next test.. you have something going on. Probably not a thing to do to prevent it either. Lets just say it's 'on it's way home'.
I'll step out on a limb here, because I don't have actual experience of running one of these beyond even 100k yet :roll: But I'd almost say that replacing the rockers every other TB change would be prudent. Rockers alone aren't too bad: I got all 16 for 150 bucks.
Mine tanked with about 80k, not the TB, but the water pump bearings... and the resulting slipped belt/8 busted exhaust rockers. Mine fell well 'outside' the expected wear and tear. Yeah, I'm 'That guy'.
Back to your higher iron; Last engine I had a test similar to yours, was immediately after the intake pipe rattled and cracked wide open.. I call it 'dusting the engine'.
Does your rubber intake from the airbox to turbo show signs of having a new intake hose in place, or show signs of being rotten? Looking from above won't show it. they rot out on the bottom..where the oil pools. I see you recently bought this rig, maybe previous owner replaced it, no way to know how long he might of run it with poor filtration. (if it was indeed a problem)
Anyway, high wear metals such as iron usually comes from cylinder walls, gears , oil pump, cam lobes/rollers. You have basically 'zero' for bearing materials, so that part is good!
But, if it was truly good and dusted, you'd show higher silicones too.. at least until several oil changes flushed it out. Silicones are present in everyday 'dirt'.
Good filtration and sound intake pipes keeps It out.
Not saying this is what is going on with yours, just be aware it could be. I'd say your chances of it being rocker/roller/cam wear is probably the culprit.

edit to add; I pulled my hair out on my whole fleet about 14 years ago! Every one of my tests came back 'high' in iron. I get mine in bulk, and it was in the new oil! Boy, did I have a lonnggg talk with my supplier!
Author:  craws010 [ Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil Analysis Results
flash7210 wrote:
One oil analysis is hard to go from.
Need several to identify any trends.

Yes, its likely that you have some worn rockers. But you would notice valve train noises and reduced power if it was really bad.


Thanks, Flash. I would say that it sounds like there is definitely more valve train noise from this one compared to another one that I have with about 1/3 the mileage on the engine. But I never heard any noise that led me to believe that there were any serious problems. I will probably take it off the road and tear it down to inspect the top-end. I would imagine the intake could probably use a good cleaning with 180K of EGR.
Author:  craws010 [ Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil Analysis Results
rancherman wrote:
I agree w/Flash; If you get similar results on next test.. you have something going on. Probably not a thing to do to prevent it either. Lets just say it's 'on it's way home'.
I'll step out on a limb here, because I don't have actual experience of running one of these beyond even 100k yet :roll: But I'd almost say that replacing the rockers every other TB change would be prudent. Rockers alone aren't too bad: I got all 16 for 150 bucks.
Mine tanked with about 80k, not the TB, but the water pump bearings... and the resulting slipped belt/8 busted exhaust rockers. Mine fell well 'outside' the expected wear and tear. Yeah, I'm 'That guy'.
Back to your higher iron; Last engine I had a test similar to yours, was immediately after the intake pipe rattled and cracked wide open.. I call it 'dusting the engine'.
Does your rubber intake from the airbox to turbo show signs of having a new intake hose in place, or show signs of being rotten? Looking from above won't show it. they rot out on the bottom..where the oil pools. I see you recently bought this rig, maybe previous owner replaced it, no way to know how long he might of run it with poor filtration. (if it was indeed a problem)
Anyway, high wear metals such as iron usually comes from cylinder walls, gears , oil pump, cam lobes/rollers. You have basically 'zero' for bearing materials, so that part is good!
But, if it was truly good and dusted, you'd show higher silicones too.. at least until several oil changes flushed it out. Silicones are present in everyday 'dirt'.
Good filtration and sound intake pipes keeps It out.
Not saying this is what is going on with yours, just be aware it could be. I'd say your chances of it being rocker/roller/cam wear is probably the culprit.

edit to add; I pulled my hair out on my whole fleet about 14 years ago! Every one of my tests came back 'high' in iron. I get mine in bulk, and it was in the new oil! Boy, did I have a lonnggg talk with my supplier!


Thanks for the feedback, Rancherman. This Jeep did have the usual torn/rotted intake to turbo hose when I bought it. I replaced it with a new one before putting it on the road. I can't say how long it was run like that by the PO, but it wasn't as bad as a hose that I pulled off another one. I got the impression that the Jeep was maintained relatively well though.
No doubt that you got a great deal on your rockers. I would love to know your source if you don't mind sharing.
That's is crazy that the oil supply was the source of the elevated Iron levels in your analysis reports. Sounds like you probably spent a small fortune in analysis fees, on top of all the frustration that it caused. But I am sure the news had to be a bit of a relief as well.
Author:  rancherman [ Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil Analysis Results
ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/JEEP-LIBERTY-R ... 2749.l2649
That same seller also offers them WITH lifters for $65 dollars more per set.

With shipping, (the cheap way) came up to $150. I was surprised that I received them in 11 days.


That whole mess was never really resolved; I was not the first guy to report it, nor the last. Supplier just passed the buck up the chain, and vice versa. Somebody somewhere screwed up, and impossible to prove anything!
"We can't control what the next guy already has in his bulk tanks" type back and forth.. :roll:
Author:  craws010 [ Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil Analysis Results
rancherman wrote:
ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/JEEP-LIBERTY-R ... 2749.l2649
That same seller also offers them WITH lifters for $65 dollars more per set.

With shipping, (the cheap way) came up to $150. I was surprised that I received them in 11 days.


That whole mess was never really resolved; I was not the first guy to report it, nor the last. Supplier just passed the buck up the chain, and vice versa. Somebody somewhere screwed up, and impossible to prove anything!
"We can't control what the next guy already has in his bulk tanks" type back and forth.. :roll:


Thanks for providing the link. It is interesting that they are selling them without the lifters. I was under the impression that they were sold as one unit. But in your case I suppose that was a good thing since your situation was due to the seizing of the water pump causing the rockers to break as designed and you didn't necessarily need the lifters.
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