Thinking of getting a CRD in Colorado

3pedal · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:25 am

Hello everyone

I am in the market for a new daily driver for Colorado and am considering a Liberty Diesel. On paper, it seems like the right combination of things, and I have always wanted a Jeep. I want something that gets good mileage for my 80 mile a day commute, can handle weather, I can take into the mountains and pull the occasional small trailer when I don't want to break out the big truck.

I have looked through the Noob guide, and looked at a timing belt change thread or two. I have to admit that looks a little intense, but then I always dislike removing radiators.

I have a couple questions, but what I am mostly worried about is what I don't know that I don't know about these.

When doing a prebuy look at one, what should I look for? What should I be concerned about?

Is there anyway to tell if the timing belt has been changed without digging into it? I found one at a dealer with 11x,xxx miles that looks clean in the pictures. It appears to have the upgraded inter-cooler hoses. Of course, the dealer most likely has no clue what has been done to it, and the pictures can lie.

I have had a few cars over the years that have been abandoned by the market, and become very hard to keep on the road. Is this a concern for these?

I am sure there are threads all over that most likely answer this, but my search skills have been weak lately, and I am hoping to grab the attention of some Colorado types that might be able to help vet one if I find something interesting.

Thanks for the help!

rancherman · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:50 am

I'd start by asking the dealer for the name or number of the previous owner. Talk directly to them.

But if it is overall good shape, and the price is 'right', engine sounds 'good'... I'd still treat it as an 'unknown', and pretty much follow the noob guide. Just for piece of mind, especially if you are looking for a 80 mile daily driver. After all, you will be the one standing on the side of the road, not the dealer, nor the previous owner..
Good luck!

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:52 am

My best advice is be patient.
Wait for one that has the important mods done, and receipt record for everything they claim.
It will save you much $tre$$.

Don't worry about color.
It's cheaper to get a good one and have it painted your desired color, than to get one in the color you want that needs repairs.

dskater411 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:26 pm

Parts are all available and this forum has pretty much all the knowledge and user support you will ever need for the vehicle. My opinion, I think, is whether or not you consider yourself capable and willing to do most/all of the work on it yourself. Labor can add up fast if not, and in the 100k+ mile range, things start happening whether big or small. Timing belts, glow plugs, rocker arms/valves in addition to thermostat, failing window regulators, a million fluid changes, etc. Not terribly expensive though if you do them yourself. Also, just FYI, radiator does not need to be pulled for a timing belt, just the fan, and I think it might be possible without that too but would be a major pain even with skinny arms.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:04 pm

there are also a couple for sale here. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=35

Very good ones show up there from time to time.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:03 pm

Gordon is very correct, if you can, find one that already has most of the updates and / or mods already done to it including a recently installed new timing belt, pulleys, and water pump.
Ask for proof of the TB replacement. (date, milage)

Four that most perform are:
1. timing belt, idler pulleys, tensioner pulley, and water pump.
2. EGR block off or total EGR system delete by installing a Weeks Elbow Kit.
3. In tank fuel pump installed
4. ProVent filter installed on CCV system

There are many updates and mods further down on the importance factor. :roll:

For a good list of some of the recomended updates and mods, see this:> viewtopic.php?p=916815#p916815

Also, you should be willing and able to do almost all of your own mechanic work on this vehicle, otherwise the labor alone can get super expensive if you are even able to find someone who is knowledgeable on how to work on this vehicles engine and ancillary related components. :wink:

APC9199 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:44 pm

Paying a couple hundred bucks for a full inspection by a reputable shop can save you THOUSANDS of dollars in the short and long term with these. That one is right in the mileage range that lots of things start to really show their wear. Here is my short list...

All of the rubber bushings underneath will likely need to be changed. This just tightens things up and makes the vehicle much more driveable.
The rear upper control arm, if it hasn't been done, probably needs to be replaced.
The suspension all the way around, if it hasn't been done, likely needs to be replaced.
The timing belt needs to be done if there is no solid proof of it being done within 100k miles or 6 years.
The turbo shaft should be checked for play by a professional. You should also make sure it is a genuine Garrett (Made that mistake...)
It should have the second gen fuel filter head (blue plug).
It should have new or aftermarket boost hoses.
The transmission should be checked by a professional to make sure there are no major problems. The filters likely need to be changed.
The front prop shaft cv-boot is intact and the shaft turns freely.
The front and rear differential could use a full inspection to make sure the bearings and gears are good to go.
The motor mounts and transmission mounts may need to be replaced.

Bonuses:
The EGR has been removed and it has a "weeks" elbow kit installed.
It has metal glow plugs (5v or 7v) instead of the ceramic glow plugs. 5v preferred for Colorado...
It has a lift pump installed in the tank (or out, I guess). Listen for "whirring" in the rear end when the key is on, engine off.
There is proof of the torque converter being replaced with a better-than-OEM unit at some point.
There is evidence of a Green-Diesel-Engineering ECM tune.
There is evidence that ARP head studs have been installed.
2-micron fuel filter setup.
Provent catch-can.

There is much more, but that covers a lot of the big ones. Also, the usual "everyday" stuff that comes with buying a car still applies. Good luck!

3pedal · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:29 pm

I fully expect to do most of the work on it if I get one, and I understand when looking at something in this age range, there will always be the next thing to work on. The guide I found for replacing the timing belt started with removing the drill and front bumper. That brought back unpleasant memories of my SHOs, where step one in changing the spark plugs was remove the hood and then the intake manifold. If that all does not have to come out, then it is a little less concerning.

I've done heavier than average wrenching, but never messed with a timing belt, so I don't have the fancy tools needed for that project. The only over head cam engine I have is in the Marauder, and it's a chain so haven't done anything with it.

I avoid the insides of transmissions and engines, but will try most other stuff.

3pedal · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:32 pm

Does anyone know a good shop in the Denver or north area to get a prebuy inspection? It is old enough that I imagine most dealers won't have a clue. So far, I have done most of the work on my only other diesel, so I don't know a good local shop.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:43 pm

Toss Sir Sam (author of the NOOB GUIDE) an email. He is also in Colorado, bit I don't know how far away Y'all are from each other. He may know someone in your area.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:33 pm

Meh I'm far enough away to not be useful for an inspection, and honestly I don't want to be the one to do it.

If someone needs a timing belt done I can bang it out in half my saturday, if someone needs rockers done I can bang it out in a saturday and sunday morning. Beyond that I have such a backlog of my own work which demands my time its hard to fit in anything else.

I believe colorado yote is in broomfield, which if available would be a knowledgeable inspector.

3pedal · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:04 pm

I'll see if I can find Colorado Yote

If I get one that needs a timing belt and I am not ready to do it myself, what would you charge, and what part of CO are you in?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:12 am

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Don't worry about color.
It's cheaper to get a good one and have it painted your desired color, than to get one in the color you want that needs repairs.

So $4000 for a color change paint job is cheaper then getting a color you can live with?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:21 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Don't worry about color.
It's cheaper to get a good one and have it painted your desired color, than to get one in the color you want that needs repairs.

So $4000 for a color change paint job is cheaper then getting a color you can live with?

4k for a paint job? WOW!!! What kind of gold infused paint are they using? :ROTFL:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:04 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Don't worry about color.
It's cheaper to get a good one and have it painted your desired color, than to get one in the color you want that needs repairs.

So $4000 for a color change paint job is cheaper then getting a color you can live with?

4k for a paint job? WOW!!! What kind of gold infused paint are they using? :ROTFL:

A OEM quality full color paint job will run at least $4000(no metallic or tri-coat paints) ,some colors can double that.

My late KJ's orange paint would have cost $9000 if I didn't work at the body shop and got everything at cost+10% and no labor and even than still cost $3000.

Don't start with maaco adds,they don't prep or tape off anything(will for a huge extra cost) and use single stage paint with extra runs(again huge extra cost for 2 stage OEM quality paint).

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:39 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

A OEM quality full color paint job will run at least $4000(no metallic or tri-coat paints) ,some colors can double that.
My late KJ's orange paint would have cost $9000 if I didn't work at the body shop and got everything at cost+10% and no labor and even than still cost $3000.
Don't start with maaco adds,they don't prep or tape off anything(will for a huge extra cost) and use single stage paint with extra runs(again huge extra cost for 2 stage OEM quality paint).

Strange, top quality paint jobs in my part of the country by some of the best shops in town do not cost near that much unless they are custom ones.
and I am not talking Maaco...must be the labor rates? :roll:

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:57 pm

You can get a complete Line-X job for $4000, including inside fenders and jambs if you pull the inner fender guards, flares, and do all the masking yourself.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:40 pm

GordnadoCRD wrote:

You can get a complete Line-X job for $4000, including inside fenders and jambs if you pull the inner fender guards, flares, and do all the masking yourself.

No you can't,not Line-X.Your looking at $10,000-$15,000 for a 1/2 ton pickup depending on thickness,it's $1500+ just to do the bed(no "over the rail").

Prices are pretty standard across the whole US.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:46 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

A OEM quality full color paint job will run at least $4000(no metallic or tri-coat paints) ,some colors can double that.
My late KJ's orange paint would have cost $9000 if I didn't work at the body shop and got everything at cost+10% and no labor and even than still cost $3000.
Don't start with maaco adds,they don't prep or tape off anything(will for a huge extra cost) and use single stage paint with extra runs(again huge extra cost for 2 stage OEM quality paint).

Strange, top quality paint jobs in my part of the country by some of the best shops in town do not cost near that much unless they are custom ones.
and I am not talking Maaco...must be the labor rates? :roll:

You don't actually have a clue what a "Full color change" involves do you? Or "OE Quality"?

Your at $2000-$4000 alone in prep work before any painting is even done since you don't want to look at the old paint every time you open a door,hood,or trunk.

Same color OE quality can be done for $2000-$5000 depending on color since the prep time is cut by about 60%-70%.

3pedal · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:57 pm

I wish a quality paint job was that inexpensive in Colorado. I have a couple things that could use a paint job if the price was something I could handle

Thinking of getting a CRD in Colorado

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